Repudiating the National Debt

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by wkmac, Jul 1, 2011.

  1. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    To even suggest this in the American ideal is like saying Jesus is not the flesh and blood son of almighty god but then I have no trouble saying that so there you go. In 1992' free market economist Murray Rothbard broached that very idea in the publication Chronicles and it was reprinted again here. This morning I read an article where the State of Minnesota has in effect "shutdown" because of deficits and debt and the ramifications of that. Aside the political posturing and grandstanding by political operatives, this recent event only marks another political subdivision bound down under the weight of economic reality that extends even up to the highest levels not only in America but other 1st world nations around the globe.

    Many mainstream and respected financial experts who 4 or 5 years ago would never consider any thought of an individual using strategic default to walk away from an impossible debt scenario are now in fact issuing out that very advice. The standard advice now for those in upside down mortgages and in financial straights is the strategic default. Have we gotten to the point where Rothbard's idea should be given merit and discussion in the public square? If you think this is unthinkable and in the American traditions I understand that as I too was raised to pay one's debts but a number needs to be considered and discussed in the public space by all of us who occupy and make it work on a daily basis. When you take into account the total of all obligations that the American taxpayer is on the hook for, well just consider this point made in USA Today back in May 2007':

    Now in 2011' with the national debt having gone up even further, the debt burden per household is even far greater. Walk into any financial expert and lay out your current finances, even if you are debt free and then add in your share of that taxpayer burden and ask, if all these liabilities had to be paid off even before you die, what advice would you give me to achieve those ends. I can tell you what that advice would be because I've asked 9 financial planners and lawyers so far myself as to what course of action would be most effective in that exact scenario and all of them said a complete and total Chapter 7 liquidation bankruptcy is the only option that would achieve complete solvency for that condition.

    I think Rothbard's idea whether we like it or not, whether distasteful or not may indeed be the only option left. No, it's not pretty by any means, nor what any of us had in mind regardless of our race, sex, religion, politics, creed or favorite sports team but it may be a reality that we have to face and face together. I have no faith in organizations or institutions to get us out of this but I do have faith in the average folk who if allowed to be given the facts, ALL THE FACTS, everything on the table, nothing or no idea held back, then yes I do believe people could begin to sort these things out and find solutions. But the world as we know it now will likely change, it's going to anyway if we maintain course and we'll still have the debt to boot but I also believe it can change for the better if we really want that.

    Fear is the mind killer!
     
  2. bbsam

    bbsam Moderator Staff Member

    The timing is spot on. I've been trying to convince myself to buy a 2011 Mustang GT and it's gone through my mind at times, hell if I just stop wanting to pay for it in a couple years, just stop paying. Looks like the U.S. government is considering the move, why not me? While I have a decent credit score, it's not that of the federal government!
     
  3. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    OK, I'll bite--what would happen if Uncle Sam did declare bankruptcy?
     
  4. rod

    rod retired and happy


    As of right now state government no longer exists in Minnesota and all state employees are out of a job.. About the only state employees working are the State Patrol and DNR conservation officers. Rumor has it that the game wardens are only protecting state property and not patrolling the lakes. Yesterday they kicked all the campers out of the state parks and shut them down---just in time for the biggest camping and recreation weekend of the year. You've heard of the phrase "not a happy camper" --there were alot of those around here yesterday. Failure to agree on a state budget for the next 2 years is what caused it. One side wants to raise the debt ceiling and the other don't. Should be interesting. Glad I don't rely on a state check for a living.
     
  5. bbsam

    bbsam Moderator Staff Member

    China and the rest of the lending world use it as a reason to increase the interest rate they charge and every bank in America uses it as an excuse to raise every interest rate 5-fold. Truly a snowballing effect.
     
  6. trplnkl

    trplnkl 555

    That's assuming there ar any banks left in America.
     
  7. bbsam

    bbsam Moderator Staff Member

    Of course there will be. And they've positioned themselves to once again bend us over, good and hard.
     
  8. moreluck

    moreluck golden ticket member

    Obama himself voted against raising the debt ceiling in 2006. He explained his vote at the time, “The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here.’ Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America’s debt limit.”

    http://townhall.com/columnists/rach...to_continue_irresponsible_spending/page/full/
     
  9. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    bhos is and has always been a follower. Never a leader.

    What happens if the debt limit is not raised ?
    Well the gov't will be unable to borrow more and will have to survive on the incoming tax revenues, which do not stop.
    I think some call it "living within your means ".
     
  10. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    cartoonnetwork_logo_240_001.jpg
     
  11. moreluck

    moreluck golden ticket member

    when did I post that?
     
  12. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    Post-post amnesia?
     
  13. moreluck

    moreluck golden ticket member

  14. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

  15. bbsam

    bbsam Moderator Staff Member

    And this is the true short-sighted "kitchen table economics" stupidity that has us in this mess. We may as well have Sara Palin as Cairman of the Federal Reserve, Ted Nugent Secretary of Defense, and our very own moreluck as White House press secretary for President Bachman.
     
  16. moreluck

    moreluck golden ticket member

    Just send me the press secretary's paycheck, I won't show up and America won't know the difference !!! (believe me, 'Carney' is a perfect name for him!) Barnum was wrong, it's more than one!
     
  17. trplnkl

    trplnkl 555

    Tell me how this works. Why is the common sense of not spending more than you take in such a bad thing?
     
  18. bbsam

    bbsam Moderator Staff Member

    It's not a bad thing. It is a ridiculous thing to have the nation with it's elected officials pass programs and refuse to fund them adequately through the tax system. If we want Obamacare, and by the votes it seems we do, then we have to pay for it. If we want a prescription drug plan, we have to pay for it. If we want wars all over the world, we have to pay for it. That's the simplest way to put it. Now for the more complex: If we default, everybody pays more. Banks from world to local level get to raise rates not only on new loans, but on those credit cards in people's pockets. You know, the ones that say "prime+x%". Businesses have to pay more in interest, inflation becomes a monster and the cycle continues. Why? Because we seem not to want to pay for that which we have bought. So maybe you are right. It's not that "kitchen table economics" doesn't apply, but that we prefer to ignore parts of it.
     
  19. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    So I'll ask again, what is bhos' great plan ?
    So far he has produced nothing.
    But some phantom poll that 80% of the American people want tax increases, nothing is mentioned about ending the out of control spending.
    Is he really attempting to cause another Great Depression ?
     
  20. bbsam

    bbsam Moderator Staff Member

    I would take another Great Depression over folding to Tea Party idiocy.