Requests for 8 hr days

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by gumbybros, Jun 15, 2005.

  1. gumbybros

    gumbybros Guest

    Article 37, Section 1, Paragraph B gives us the right to request a day without overtime. Our management team thinks they don't need to make up their minds on granting it until the morning of that day. How are you supposed to make plans for anything if you won't know till 10 hrs before you're doing it? Is this common practice in other centers? We used to be given earlier approval, but it was either a mgmt change in our building or a change in company attitude. The contract doesn't say they have have to give us notice, but it sure does mess with the whole idea of an 8 hr day. We gotta get after our negotiating team for more clear, concise language.
     
  2. gadistrict

    gadistrict Guest

    Being apart of the management crew, I have to admit....that's pretty fudged up. It's amazing how some of my fellow managers seem to only think of drivers as numbers and not people. I'm sorry that happened. Have you tried talking to your center manager? I know it seems stupid, but maybe if you brought it up to him, what's the worst that can happen? I think he'd just feel like a complete jerk or a moron, or heck...even both.
     
  3. speeddemon

    speeddemon Guest

    Usually when I request 8 hours work, I get 10. Ive missed so much of my kids stuff because mgt. doesnt give a crap. And they wonder why we have the attitiudes we have.
     
  4. 30andout

    30andout Guest

    In my center if you request an 8 hour day and you are dispached more than you can normally do in 8 hours you are to call in and tell management first and then come in after 8 done or not.
     
  5. sendagain

    sendagain Guest

    My car once broke down, and I managed to get it into the shop. I called the office and asked if there was any way I could get the day off. The supervisor decided to get in his car and drive the fifteen miles in FWY traffic to come and get me. We arrived at the hub just in time to see the other cars pulling out, and I ran in to change, sort my air and jump on the road. I tried fruitlessly to get work taken off so I could reach the shop to retrieve my car. I had to call my brother to go and bail out my car, then drive down to get me at work later that night. It was a very long day.
     
  6. over9five

    over9five Guest

    Gumby, Its contractual. The management team HAS to give 8 hour days to 15% of the center (1 driver max per loop). Where's your shop steward?
     
  7. browndude

    browndude Guest

    you must give them 48 hours notice on an 8 hour day and they must give you 24 hours notice if you are not going to get it. if its approved and you work over 8 you can file for double time for all time over 8. each person is allowed 2 of these per month and if you are refused 2 times in a row the third time must be approved.
     
  8. wornoutupser

    wornoutupser Guest

    Sendagain,
    My first house was purchased by my wife forging my signature on everything because my stupidvisor refused to let me off for the closing!
     
  9. gadistrict

    gadistrict Guest

    Technically it isn't forgery if your wife has your consent and permission to sign your name for you. Legally, one would have to have the intent to defraud and deceive in order to be foregery. Nevertheless, I get your point. Some centers do have poor managers and even worse on-road sups. Use the contract to your advantage and fight for your rights. Otherwise you'll continue to be abused.
     
  10. johnny

    johnny Guest

    Wornout,
    Don't you have option "3" days? Because of the way our center is about days off for anything(short of your own death),90% of us pick opt."3".Just call in tell them sorry I have need a opt day for personal reasons.Then while they are in the middle of telling you how short they are of drivers(which I know is BS)I would say "bye see you tommorrow" and hang up.It has been done this way for years in our building.
    Managment would hate when January rolled around because everyone had a fresh batch of option days to burn.

    (Message edited by Johnny on June 17, 2005)
     
  11. gumbybros

    gumbybros Guest

    Actually our supervisors aren't that bad. They just said sorry, that's the way we read the contract. However, you are almost right over9five. The contract does say they MUST give a minimum of 10% of the drivers off on any day. That is good to know. The word OFF threw me, but apparently they mean give 8 hr days to a minimum of 10%. We call option 3 days "mental health days". Now, one more question...Our local contract has totally different requirements for 8 hour requests. God knows why they have it in both, but which one takes precendence?
    Here's a piece of nonsense.. When sending a message on the diad you have to hit the shift button to put in a period. Am I the only idiot that keeps hitting the shift key on my computer to type a period??? It drives me nuts. It would be nice if they could make the diad more like a keyboard.
     
  12. swingdriver

    swingdriver Guest

    "Stupidvisor" Dude, that's hillarious. I'm gonna have to use that one. I'll be sure to give u credit for it though.
     
  13. wornoutupser

    wornoutupser Guest

    That was a long time ago before I learned my rights!

    I am much older and experienced now....
     
  14. gadistrict

    gadistrict Guest

    Let me say this as well, although I'm sure that I'll probably get drilled the by the rest of you guys on this one.

    It is the supervisor's/manager's job to keep productivity high, and labor low. That is the game played all over the world no matter what industry you're in. This does not justify being inhumane or flat out evil, but...that's what we get paid to do. And the union makes it even harder to do that. So we managers try to read and twist the contract language to our advantage, just as the hourlys do.
    It's not always the nicest thing to do, but what the position entails. Just like everything else, it is all about the dollar.

    Once again, let me re-emphasize that this is not an excuse to abuse drivers, but a statement to say "Hey...that's part of our job"
     
  15. crappie

    crappie Guest

    yes gadistrict must drivers who have been there a while know that managers make up the rules as they go long .It is nice to know that some one like you honest about it.Some managers on her believe there own bull s... that is when you know they have turned to the dark side.
     
  16. speeddemon

    speeddemon Guest

    So what your saying is that its part of your job to overwork people to the point of injury, as long as your chasing a dollar? I hope you enjoy that dollar, because when all is said and done, the good lord is not going to like that attitude very much. I do go to bed every night with a clean mind. I know I gave UPS an honest days work, by the methods they gave me. Not many managers or suipervisors can say that. Its all about screwing the hourly just as much as you can get away with, We know, we know.
     
  17. proups

    proups Guest

    Give gadistrict a break!

    It is summer - have you forgot that this is the heaviest vacation period of the year?

    I would be willing to bet any driver has a much easier time getting their 8 hour request granted during non-peak vacation periods. Who wants to own up to that?
     
  18. ok2bclever

    ok2bclever Guest

    The vacation schedule is no excuse.

    Vacations are scheduled in November and March for the following year and UPS management lets off only the minimum that they are contractually obligated to.

    So "peak vacation time" is not a surprise occurance and is no excuse to violate the contract regarding 8 hour requests (or for any other reason for that matter).

    UPS management has plenty of time to plan and hire seasonals per the contract.

    Also, at least in my center (and you have to talk only about your own center because each one differs on the contractual language regarding such as 8 hour requests) there is absolutely no difference in how UPS handles 8 hour requests day in and day out.

    UPS management gives the minimum that the contract requires them to and they give them grudgingly, always pushing the stop counts over what the drivers feel would be fair, "just in case" and forcing the drivers to call in and get "rescued" to have any chance of "making their 8".

    This leads to a lot of drivers just skipping their lunch to not be bothered with having to argue with management and make "meets" with other drivers to dump the excess work, which is exactly what management is after in the first place.

    This practice is twenty-four/seven, 365 days a year, regardless of whether management has people laid off and/or has sent drivers home in the morning because a true 8 hour load always looks under dispatched on paper with the purposefully dishonest standards UPS has imposed since the "diad" correction (ok, many routes were way wrong prior to that correction as well [​IMG]).

    Local managers don't want to have to stand up to their bosses to defend sending out drivers out "under dispatched" (understandable) and so the practice survives regardless of season.

    gadistrict, I'd say you tell it as it is and I wish more managers had your philosophy, apparent temperment and candidness.

    Money is the bottom line, but treating workers as human beings with families and lives outside of UPS could benefit the bottom line by creating a more positive and cooperative workforce attitude.

    In general, UPS upper management has never believed this is the case as the whip, threat and negative has always been the pronounced practice policies handed down even after they instigated the "four for one" or whatever policy and so they continue to promote the bad for business "them against us" attitude by their daily actions.

    Actions speak far more eloquently and truthfully than words or pretend policies.
     
  19. gadistrict

    gadistrict Guest

    I knew this was coming...hehe.

    SpeedDemon-
    I can understand the tone of anger you used against me. As far as management goes with abusing drivers, I'm on YOUR side. I do not tolerate drivers being consistantly screwed or wronged by my on-roads. And I definately do not endorse jeapordizing a driver's health and safety. You are not one of my drivers from my center, cause I guarantee you your experience would be different. I can only control what I am personally in charge of. What I was saying was that it is my job to stretch the limit. Yes, it is my job to make UPS more profit and keep costs low. I attempt to do this as best as I can, while attempting to keep Division mgmt happy, and keeping my hourlys happy. Saftey is important, and I do not over work my drivers to the point of injury. When it is 95 degrees with a 100 percent humidity, I can't afford to. If I were to get stop counts up with labor costs low, but had drivers claiming worker's comp, I'd be in more crap that I would be in for calling in cover drivers to help out. In the past two weeks, I've had to call a part-timer in to help out my drivers. I also had all of my on-roads out there as well. Can you guess whether or not I got chewed out in my conference calls? You see, I don't mind getting chewed out at times, cause I'd rather do that, then have to deal with drivers. And because I do go out of my way compared to many mgrs to help out my drivers, my drivers respect me, and I actually can get more out of them then normal, because they know I tell the truth. Imagine that...so just FYI, I sleep very well at night.

    Proups-
    Yes, it is definately easier to get 8 hour days when it is not peak-vacation time. I would hope everyone knows this.

    ok2beclever-
    You are correct. Management does have the time to plan in advance to get cover drivers in. As far as hiring seasonals, that is out of my control. That is a decision made furthur up on the food chain, and I can yell and scream all I want, but it doesn't mean it is going to happen. It is hard enough to cover regular routes with cover drivers and provide the customers with the same level of service as they normally receive. Considering the 8 hour day requests come in 48 hours prior to when the drivers want it, it isn't always that easy. I have cover drivers who could technically run the route, but I'd be afraid to let them as would the drivers that normally run the route. You guys should check with your OMS's and see how the phone calls, messages, and concern volume goes up during peak-vacation period. Too many misdeliveries, too many pkgs being sheeted up NS# when we've been delivering there for years. In theory, yes, management has no excuse for not planning ahead of time. But when it comes down to reality, a lot of things aren't up to the center manager, and we have to deal with it just like the drivers do.}
     
  20. ok2bclever

    ok2bclever Guest

    gadistrict,

    I was a driver for sixteen years and I have been a clerk for over thirteen years now.

    I get to see first hand the major increase in NS#, locate, etc as part of my day is address correction.

    Being the ole man I am the first data base the OMS come to outside of their management team regarding how to handle the unusual stuff that happens regarding cover drivers, etc.

    None of this has much to do with honoring the contract regarding 8 hour requests.

    Normally the contention is in regards to an hour or so worth of delivery, not replacing the regular driver.

    The issue dwells more on how the driver appears under dispatched if given an actual 8 hour load as I mentioned previously than an issue of service.

    Because this is the true problem regarding 8 hour request violations I deal with complaints on the issue year round and DO NOT see a difference in violation level between peak vacation time and elsewhen.

    There is no issue about 8 hour days being able to be easier to get in the off vacation period.

    Contractually the 8 hour policy differs nationwide (in my area we get three a month, they must be requested prior to the start of the day before and a minimum of ten percent of the requesting workforce must be so dispatched barring service emergency, UPS does not have to allow an entire loop off the same day), but whatever it is where you are the rules remain the same in all months except the Christmas period (which is the only period I don't have 8 hour request issues to deal with [​IMG]).

    I understand the handcuffing that you go through as an operational center manager, but the stewards and the workforce must hold the company accountable and not let "upper management decision" be the rallying cry excuse for accepting violations.