Required to sign

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by Curious Reader, Apr 1, 2007.

  1. In my work area I have two overzealous sups who are constantly harrassing new hires. They are always looking for ways to threaten them with writeups, warning letters, etc.(although they leave more experienced employees alone for the most part), and are always lying to them telling them they have to sign practically everything they put in front of them. These are senority employees with maybe 6 months to a year of experience. I do my best to set them straight with what I do know, but there are huge descrepancies among even veteran employees it seems as to what we are required to sign besides our paychecks. Can someone set the record straight as to what we are required to sign versus whats optional without putting our jobs in jeopardy?
     
  2. submarine

    submarine Banned

    You are required only to sign your paycheck, your DVIR, and other D.O.T. required forms such as your annual drivers license review.
    HOWEVER, we sometimes encourage employees to sign documents because you can request a copy of anything you sign. "You want me to sign this? Well let me make a copy and I will." Then go right to the copy machine.

    You can Initial the document instead, which acknowledges that you have received it.

    If your being threatened to sign the document, get the biggest black sharpie you can and write "SIGNED UNDER PROTEST IN ACCORDANCE WITH ARTICLE 6 NATIONAL MASTER AGREEMENT" above your signature, then sign it and file a grievance.

    If you want to get rid of these supervisors (or better yet, render them impotent) you need to file grievances on everything they do. Tell each employee to carry a pocket notebook and write down each instance of harassment, noting the time, date, and witnesses. Then file Article 37's on them. If your manager doesn't fix the problem, go to the division manager and so on. There isn't an overnight fix but perserverance can solve your problem.
     
  3. rebel

    rebel New Member

    Great advice, we need more coworkers just like you. Im with you all the way.
     
  4. wonderboy

    wonderboy Guest

    I was recently instructed by my superviser to sign my full name to the trailer signoff sheets indicating that I had double checked and verified the trailer to be unloaded and empty. I had been initialling it. I scribbled my full name on the form and was told to make it more legible. I asked why and was told it was a legal document and I would be held accountable if I missed any packages in the trailer.

    I asked if he was a Notary Public. He said no. I said "if it ain't notarized then it ain't a legal document" and reverted back to using my initials.

    I haven't heard another word about it.

    I have been with UPS nearly a year.

    wonderboy
     
  5. mattwtrs

    mattwtrs Retired Senior Member

    Don't those guys know about the new hire turnover? I knew some Sups that were just like those overzealous two. They are now longer with the company. The best Supervisors I have known did their best to make everyone successful in life, unfortunately not everyone was meant to be at Buster Brown. Going up the ladder to the manager, division manager etc. sure beats banging with butt heads.
     
  6. submarine

    submarine Banned

    That is an awesome comeback Wonderboy! (and thanks for the support Rebel. I'm available for cloning if you're paying, or I'll give natural sperm donations to hot moms! LOL)

    Mattwtrs you have the right idea too. It's important to educate these part-time sups NOW before they move up and cause more problems. UPS could make more of an effort to develop a team mentality instead of always butting heads with us. I agree that the supervisors that treat you well will get 10 times that in return. In Feeders it's been like working for a different' company, so when they ask me to do something extra I find myself saying "no problem" when before I would have immediately been figuring out reasons to say "NO CAN DO!".
     
  7. Griff

    Griff Active Member

    The way it was explained to me by several teamster BA's is that anything you sign that isn't in the presence of your shop steward is void, the union doesn't recognize it.
     
  8. Channahon

    Channahon New Member

    If an empoyee refused to sign in the presence of a union steward and management person and is acknowledged by both union and management, does that make a difference?
    I have been to many hearing where an employee refused to sign and witnessed by both union and management, and it didn't make a difference. The fact of the matter is, yu were there for whatever training or discipline received, is the question that will be asked at a hearing, if the discipline goes that far.
     
  9. submarine

    submarine Banned

    Article 6 says it's void but really it doesn't matter for their stupid "certifications" or your pittsburgh. Usually they just acknowledge on whatever form it was that you refused to sign it.
    Keep in mind that in some areas of the country things can be slightly different. Sometimes BA's and stewards are able to influence management because management is generally not very educated on the contract.
     
  10. satellitedriver

    satellitedriver Moderator Staff Member

    This thread seems staged. But, I have been wrong before.
     
  11. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Signed or refused to sign its all the same. Shows the document was reviewed with the employee. In some cases the refused to sign shows the employee is uncooperative with management and could hurt his case at the panel.
     
  12. submarine

    submarine Banned

    Never heard that one. It's pretty much assumed that an employee isn't going to be cooperative when management is asking them to violate the contract and sign documents in violation of Article 6. The company should give up the whole 'sign this' attitude and just ask for initials. It's a petty point the company is making.
     
  13. gandydancer

    gandydancer New Member

    In California you're entitled by state law to a copy of anything you sign that goes in your personnel file. I've never heard of it making a difference if an employee signed off on being notifed of a supervisor's allegation on his...what's the number of the Contact form? I've had supervisors put warnings in my file for things like being a couple minutes late and put "refused to sign" without being bothered even to talk to me first just to CYA themselves against an audit, and without the steward countersigning that's entirely meaningless and harmless... Anyway, sometimes I sign just so I get a copy for my files, and sometimes I sign or don't sign just as way of telling the supe to KMA. If it's a problem, make a copy of NM 6.1 and post it on the union bulletin board.
     
  14. RockyRogue

    RockyRogue Agent of Change

    Interesting tactic of signing or not signing to tell the sup to KYA. I refuse extra time to send a message but I don't tango with disciplinary action. Its a football I don't want to play with and risk blowing up in my face. By the way...refusing extra time as a way of sending a message is very effective. Its turned around a few pt sups attitudes/treatments in the last few weeks. I'm not 100% sure the ft'er has gotten the message though. -Rocky
     
  15. brett636

    brett636 Well-Known Member

    What about situations when employees are not given the opportunity to review the documents they supposedly RTSed? I have known sups who would write up an employee and RTS it for them without ever discussing it with them first. Assuming a steward never saw or was present for said writeup it would never make it to the panel?
     
  16. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    I think you hit the key point a steward should be present to validate the talk with. The assumption made is signing the document admits guilt. The purpose of signing is acknowledge the form was reviewed with the individual. Someone refusing to sign the document shows they are being uncoperative with management and has helped to show they have a general practice of being uncooperative. A steward who is fighting to get his person some extra steps in the discipline process should be willing to accept some write ups in leau of more formal discipline. The person who does not sign the documents gets less steps in the discipline process.

    The important point lost here is if you're being talked to then you have a problem and you need to change your ways. All this cutsey stuff about signing and not signing does not help the person recognize that point. Instead it makes them combative when they should be figuring out what they have to do to stay off the bosses radar screen.
     
  17. dillweed

    dillweed Well-Known Member

    Yep, they usually have a stack of papers right there that they tap on for emphasis or shuffle when you get them in a corner.

    I'll sign safety audits and training papers but usually not verbal warnings. Once in a while sign a harmless one from my pt so he looks good to the boss.

    Am turning down air driving now in rebellion against the way they treat us. Expect us to get it all off when there is just no way. I wonder if some of the others are stop-completing residentials prior to delivery so they don't get gnawed on. That could surely backfire. dw
     
  18. browniehound

    browniehound Well-Known Member

    Why does it have to come to this? Can't we all just do our job without all this bull----?
     
  19. disneyworld

    disneyworld Active Member

    That's what I was just thinking. It's all comical.
     
  20. SmithBarney

    SmithBarney Well-Known Member

    Here is what my steward, suggests:

    If you have a problem with the issue you are signing, write it out on that
    same sheet
    (ex. "I (state your name) do not agree that I was (insert disiplined action
    here) but I have reviewed this paperwork")

    Or something like that, basically stating you don't agree.(or whatever your
    stance is)

    If its safety stuff, signing it doesn't hurt, although the new DR methods sheet
    was sketchy in its wording, I didn't sign it, and told my Ctr manager until it is
    written in clear english, with no double talk, I cannot sign it without
    understanding it, never saw the sheet again.(but of course I am not there any
    more)
    And the united way crap, LOL I don't sign.. somehow the ctr manager has to
    prove(to his bosses)that he asked everyone of us to donate(thats why we
    are asked to sign a sheet saying no donation)