Respect and Gratitude

Old Man Jingles

Rat out of a cage
Many of these government employees have skills and education that make them worth more than an unskilled truck driver.

First thing, Danny is a self-employed business owner.

Second place - Long-term Government employees basically suck when they transition into business jobs. I've worked around dozens and they are "generally" whiners and bureaucrats.
The government hires and promotes based on the merit system which is based on longevity and education level. At UPS and other companies, longevity gets you vacation time and a degree gets you in the door. To be successful in a company, one has to get results and by taking risks. In the governement, one gets promoted by not taking risks and getting more education. That is in essence why governement is so ineffective, such a poor performer and can't ever get things done on time and budget. Effective governements (local and state) realize this and have started to outsource to private companies whenever they can.
 

Frunobulax

Member
Apropos government inefficiency, my own interest in seeking Federal employment, beyond the core purpose of earning a living, was driven by the dreadful failures of the financial regulatory agencies over the last decade in assessing systemic market risk.

Federal hiring and promotion, conservative and rulebound, and whether related to bargaining unit employees or not, bears some relationship to advancement within a union-regulated workplace. Seniority is paramount. Preferences exist for vets. (as they should); but also for the disabled, for displaced federal employees, and for employees of other federal agencies. Difficult nut to crack from the outside, particularly given the panic of the last two years. One job I put in for (and was IMHO supremely qualified for) had 3000 applications for one position. Didn't even get interviewed on that one. (Salary range on these positions was between $90k and $145K.)

I am currently in the running to manage local 2010 census in my area. That job pays approximately UPS PC driver scale (without OT or ... dare I bring it up? ... Bonus). Tough economy.
 

blue efficacy

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the comments, kind, appreciative, skeptical, jejune, and otherwise.

My view of these matters is informed by the following facts and historical perspective.

In the 1930s, my paternal grandfather, a highly educated and genteel individual (Northwestern: Class of 1903) lost his pharmacy during arguably the roughest year of the depression, in 1933. He died several years later, in 1938, when my father was fifteen, without ever getting back on his feet. My mother's father, on the other hand, a first-generation Italian immigrant with an eighth-grade education, survived the depression nicely driving a bread truck, an occupation he retained until 1965 when he retired with $300k in the bank.

In my neighborhood, there are an appalling number of foreclosures; and many formerly highly-paid workers out of work. On the UPS route I worked, set among the $5-$25 million mansions, are the high-rises I mentioned. The USPS worker mentioned that for months she has been delivering scores of unemployment checks to these nice addresses.

So, my view is that survival and paying my bills is preferable to the alternatives. Certainly, had it happened all at once, going from billing $350 an hour to working for $9.50, would have been a rude shock; but living for eight months waiting (alas) for the Fed. Govt. to (not) come through turned out to be less than a shrewd wager.

Many thousands of lawyers across the country (a sizable portion who were earning comfortably more than I ever made in my best year) are also looking for work, albeit some have the luxury of severance and unemployment that I wish I had had.

Jobs vanish and never return. My guess is that we're looking at levels of structural unemployment over the next half-decade that few would have thought possible. It would never have occurred to me, by the way, that anyone would think there was anything curious or shameful about honest work.
America needs more people like this guy. I can't think of anything to say that does him justice.

Lost everything but is not bitter, ready willing and able to take on a tough, low paying job.
 

blue efficacy

Well-Known Member
I've worked around dozens and they are "generally" whiners and bureaucrats.
Yes, they are bureaucrats. That is exactly what they are. Basically anybody who works for the government and is not elected is a bureaucrat. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, despite the negative connotation the word has received over time.
 

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
blue

i know of one of these faceless, nameless bureaucraps that fall into your pot.

this nameless faceless piece of crap lowered our speed limit for trucks down to 55 on the interstate, while leaving the regular speed limit for cars at 65.

proof was shown that there are more accidents on a system like that, and that the dangers of having a split speed limit was very dangerous to human life. even the state police were very vocal against the change.

but, because of the nature of this bumbling idiot, who's only cause was the lowering of smog in our area, stated that while there was no data supporting his recommendation of lower speed limits for trucks in the area to reduce the smog, it couldnt hurt. so, over the complaints of locals, and those in our area that travel the interstate systems, they lowered the speed limit.

no hearings, no data to back up what needed to be done to lower smog. actually the data showed that the speed limit decrease would actually not affect it at all. but he did it anyway.

power gone amok. uncontrolled power, the type of power that affects the lives of millions of people, with no backlash for failure. of course, when you are the ones that then manufacture the data to show that your failure is actually a huge success.......

and all while sticking it to the people that pay their wages.

time for another revolution.

d
 

Old Man Jingles

Rat out of a cage
Yes, they are bureaucrats. That is exactly what they are. Basically anybody who works for the government and is not elected is a bureaucrat. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, despite the negative connotation the word has received over time.

Bureaucrats don't make decision, they are not allowed to realize opportunity, they don't have the authority to make exceptions to the rule.
Bureaucrats only function is to make sure that rules decided by higher ups are followed. They are not allowed to think but to indiscriminately apply rules.
Positions and people like this will soon be replaced by computers.
 
Bureaucrats don't make decision, they are not allowed to realize opportunity, they don't have the authority to make exceptions to the rule.
Bureaucrats only function is to make sure that rules decided by higher ups are followed. They are not allowed to think but to indiscriminately apply rules.
Positions and people like this will soon be replaced by computers.
I'm confused, are you talking about bureaucrats or UPS managers?
 

tarbar66

Well-Known Member
I am currently in the running to manage local 2010 census in my area. That job pays approximately UPS PC driver scale (without OT or ... dare I bring it up? ... Bonus). Tough economy.

I too have signed up to help out for the 2010 Census. The guy that was adminstering the test had worked at UPS as a feeder driver many years ago. I remember when he quit one night and left a center load set. He was tired of working nights.

I had a number of helpers in my years at UPS that ranged from housewives, college students, chiropracters to retired Navy Seals.

They all pretty much thought UPS was crazy and we were nuts to enjoy the abuse.
 

Frunobulax

Member
Different jobs have different forms of abuse. When I started practicing law, I worked for eight years with a top firm and averaged 80 hours a week in the office, was in every wekend, and was making good $$ but had no life. I once worked 70 days straight without a day off.
In later years, running my own businesses, I would go several years without a vacation. I could go on.

Most people, I think it's fair to say, try to find a comfortable, happy medium between abuse and reward. Some folks are risk averse; and they become middle mangers (bureaucrats). Others can't be happy unless they have a lot of skin in the game. It has to do with individual temperament; but also--and this relates to the subtext of my original post--it depends on your position in life and the options available to you at the moment.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
Different jobs have different forms of abuse. When I started practicing law, I worked for eight years with a top firm and averaged 80 hours a week in the office, was in every wekend, and was making good $$ but had no life. I once worked 70 days straight without a day off.
In later years, running my own businesses, I would go several years without a vacation. I could go on.

Most people, I think it's fair to say, try to find a comfortable, happy medium between abuse and reward. Some folks are risk averse; and they become middle mangers (bureaucrats). Others can't be happy unless they have a lot of skin in the game. It has to do with individual temperament; but also--and this relates to the subtext of my original post--it depends on your position in life and the options available to you at the moment.

This is one of the reasons I stress the importance of education both to my own kids and to the some of the kids that post here asking for advice. Having that degree in your back pocket will give you more options than someone who does not.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
I call Bull****.

You can call whomever you want but we get helpers from all walks of life. I have had a retired HS guidance counseler as a helper. A co-worker was telling me that his helper used to build submarines for the Navy and had signed on to be a helper because he was "bored".

BTW, I am glad to see that you did not set the bar very high on your first post.:wink2:
 

UsedNAbused

New Member
Welcome to Brown Cafe, UsedNAbused. I'm curious as to why you would use your first post to disagree in that fashion. Are you sure retired Navy Seals would not work seasonal at UPS? Are you a retired Navy Seal?
[video=youtube;A6O1eMpKCoM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6O1eMpKCoM[/video]
 
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