Retaliation for Supervisors Working Grievance

Turdburgler...and to all the other tough guys out there...keep us posted on this situation that goes on all over the country and let us know if it changes...my prediction is that things will stay the same . Sups will always be working , preloads, local sorts, hubs and especially on car. UPS might pay a few grievances but it's probably cheaper that hiring more people....the company has this already figured out.:youreright:
 

toonertoo

Most Awesome Dog
Staff member
Nowayjose, why do you say "tough guys". The company and the union agreed to this, there is hourly work there is supervisor work. I agree it is tough for many of us to file, but how long can you be a doormat? I dont know one person who would file supervisor working when it is a true emergency. People file when their shift is purposely understaffed. And then sups want to hold you to an unrealistic production number when someone put 4 hrs in a shift that was never counted in the measure. Preloaders wont get called in, or get their hours they should because of this.
Those who file do it for the greater good of your operation. Hourly are not the only ones who need to receive discipline. Thats why it is in the contract. If they want to do the work, fine, but someone gets paid for it.
 

turdburglar

Well-Known Member
Turdburgler...and to all the other tough guys out there...keep us posted on this situation that goes on all over the country and let us know if it changes...my prediction is that things will stay the same . Sups will always be working , preloads, local sorts, hubs and especially on car. UPS might pay a few grievances but it's probably cheaper that hiring more people....the company has this already figured out.:youreright:

And they can keep having supervisors work, as I know that they know that it is cheaper than hiring more people. But at least management will know that there is at least one person in the building who will not stand for their hypocrisy. Management would gladly quote the contract word for word if it benefited them, but they pretend it does not exist when it doesn't. That is the problem. However, I am not sure where I came across as a "tough guy". If you want to let management step all over you and your brothers, then it is not my concern.
 

BigUnionGuy

Got the T-Shirt
If no aggrieved is identified within the classification we've been successful pursuing supervisor working grievances outside the classification if any bargaining unit employee files, example being feeder drivers filing on a sup unloading. Protecting the unit work has been recognized as pretty important stuff or it wouldn't be Article 3 of the NMA.

Absolutely.

The easiest thing to argue in a "supe working" grievance, is for the company to demonstrate what steps they took, to insure an adequate work force.

And then.... if they can't prove, how they exhausted all local procedures.... pay the grievance.

I always like to remind them.... Any supe working, is a failure.... because they can't manage their workforce....

And falls back on, doing the work the work themselves.


Time for a new management position.


Somebody.... has to run the carwash.... :wink2:



-Bug-
 

hembone

Well-Known Member
Turdburgler...and to all the other tough guys out there...keep us posted on this situation that goes on all over the country and let us know if it changes...my prediction is that things will stay the same . Sups will always be working , preloads, local sorts, hubs and especially on car. UPS might pay a few grievances but it's probably cheaper that hiring more people....the company has this already figured out.:youreright:
The last sentence is absolutely spot-on.

And they can keep having supervisors work, as I know that they know that it is cheaper than hiring more people. But at least management will know that there is at least one person in the building who will not stand for their hypocrisy. Management would gladly quote the contract word for word if it benefited them, but they pretend it does not exist when it doesn't. That is the problem. However, I am not sure where I came across as a "tough guy". If you want to let management step all over you and your brothers, then it is not my concern.
Good reply.
 

turdburglar

Well-Known Member
PT has got it down. The language actually refers to " aggrieved employee" not displaced. If employees were eligible to perform the work they have been aggrieved whether a grievance has been filed or not. That's usually settled by paying the group or the most senior. If no aggrieved is identified within the classification we've been successful pursuing supervisor working grievances outside the classification if any bargaining unit employee files, example being feeder drivers filing on a sup unloading. Protecting the unit work has been recognized as pretty important stuff or it wouldn't be Article 3 of the NMA. As PT also stated, the contract has been agreed to by UPS. When you file, you're merely reminding your sup what his superiors agreed to.
If no one stood up to being targeted by bosses, we wouldn't have a union.

Silly me....the contract does say "aggrieved employee" rather than "displaced employee". I do not know where I got "displaced employee" from.
 

btrlov

Well-Known Member
Supervisors work because they are told to, their superiors place them in a situation to work, or the employee(s) is purposely sabotaging the work area to be grossly unproductive. In my experience, it is the latter two.

Yes, in many cases management would under staff an area by scheduling people off or sending people home at their minimum. If a supervisor is working after doing this, than he has improperly managed his work area. File the grievance, you have every right too. If it’s against a part-time sup, he would actually be happy you did, to force his bosses to properly staff their areas so he doesn’t have to work. Another words he doesn’t have to question his boss, your grievance already did that. And any smart FT sup wouldn’t risk his job to retaliate against you for exercising your rights.Management often has personal motives to have sups work; to exceed/inflate required numbers. Some FT management, it’s a pride issue. They want to justify their position by proving time and time again they are the “go to guys”; even if it’s done artificially. For other FT management, it’s a monetary issue. They actually want to maximize their management incentive bonus on the backs of hard labor; even if it’s done artificially. They have kids in college, houses, and women to pay for, etc. The management officials whom agreed to the contract know full well that their subordinates work. They know that it is just part of the status quo, and if it’s producing profits why not turn a blind eye to it.

On the opposite end, supervisors working are responding to sabotaging and overall poor work ethic. I have seen new seniority to 40 year veterans do it. A simple example is an unloader who takes a 35 minute bathroom break every day and in reality half that time is spending talking sports with other employees. Another example could be a HVD sorter that stops the belt to take several phone calls. When you ask him why he stopped the belt he’s says he had an “emergency call”, however he has “emergency calls” several times a week. In reality he is talking to his girlfriend or a shop steward to rat some sup moving irregs. Take a DMP worker, who takes a box with a small hole in it, but still opens it up and “verifies” its contents by counting every single bolt one by one at the end of the sort. In reality, he decides to count one bolt at a time, on an overtime pay rate. Take a sorter who runs a recycle line on himself which jams his unloader’s flow. The unloader, stands there and when the supervisor finally realizes, he breaks the jam, then the unloader and sorter goes to furthest bathroom in the building. In reality they just wants to piss off the FT supervisor for sending they home at their minimum and to compel pt sups to work for an easy grievance or force more hours for themselves. Then they have bad apple stewards that rationalize this behavior at every management inquiry.

MY point is it’s a chess game between management and the Union. There are definitely little victims on either side. Each side abuses each other. Supervisors working is just part of that game. File away.
 

konsole

Well-Known Member
Supervisors work because they are told to, their superiors place them in a situation to work, or the employee(s) is purposely sabotaging the work area to be grossly unproductive. In my experience, it is the latter two.

Yes, in many cases management would under staff an area by scheduling people off or sending people home at their minimum. If a supervisor is working after doing this, than he has improperly managed his work area. File the grievance, you have every right too. If it’s against a part-time sup, he would actually be happy you did, to force his bosses to properly staff their areas so he doesn’t have to work. Another words he doesn’t have to question his boss, your grievance already did that. And any smart FT sup wouldn’t risk his job to retaliate against you for exercising your rights.Management often has personal motives to have sups work; to exceed/inflate required numbers. Some FT management, it’s a pride issue. They want to justify their position by proving time and time again they are the “go to guys”; even if it’s done artificially. For other FT management, it’s a monetary issue. They actually want to maximize their management incentive bonus on the backs of hard labor; even if it’s done artificially. They have kids in college, houses, and women to pay for, etc. The management officials whom agreed to the contract know full well that their subordinates work. They know that it is just part of the status quo, and if it’s producing profits why not turn a blind eye to it.

On the opposite end, supervisors working are responding to sabotaging and overall poor work ethic. I have seen new seniority to 40 year veterans do it. A simple example is an unloader who takes a 35 minute bathroom break every day and in reality half that time is spending talking sports with other employees. Another example could be a HVD sorter that stops the belt to take several phone calls. When you ask him why he stopped the belt he’s says he had an “emergency call”, however he has “emergency calls” several times a week. In reality he is talking to his girlfriend or a shop steward to rat some sup moving irregs. Take a DMP worker, who takes a box with a small hole in it, but still opens it up and “verifies” its contents by counting every single bolt one by one at the end of the sort. In reality, he decides to count one bolt at a time, on an overtime pay rate. Take a sorter who runs a recycle line on himself which jams his unloader’s flow. The unloader, stands there and when the supervisor finally realizes, he breaks the jam, then the unloader and sorter goes to furthest bathroom in the building. In reality they just wants to piss off the FT supervisor for sending they home at their minimum and to compel pt sups to work for an easy grievance or force more hours for themselves. Then they have bad apple stewards that rationalize this behavior at every management inquiry.

MY point is it’s a chess game between management and the Union. There are definitely little victims on either side. Each side abuses each other. Supervisors working is just part of that game. File away.

Couldnt have said it better myself.

On one hand you have the insatiable investors of UPS stock and the highest executives of the company requiring the lower management to do whatever it takes to maximize profits. On the other hand you have low wage, no degree peons with no motivation to try hard because they feel they have been dealt a bad hand in life and the union unfortunately provides a safe haven for their lazy behavior. As long as UPS is publicly owned and HFT'ed on the stock market, announciing that revenue increased from .23 cents to .24 cents wether true or a lie is all that matters.

Me personally I blame the Federal Reserve and the creators of this vampiric institution. Understand the Federal Reserve and "Fiat" currency, and most of the problems in the world will make sense to you.
 

PT Stewie

"Big Fella"
Supervisors work because they are told to, their superiors place them in a situation to work, or the employee(s) is purposely sabotaging the work area to be grossly unproductive. In my experience, it is the latter two.

Yes, in many cases management would under staff an area by scheduling people off or sending people home at their minimum. If a supervisor is working after doing this, than he has improperly managed his work area. File the grievance, you have every right too. If it’s against a part-time sup, he would actually be happy you did, to force his bosses to properly staff their areas so he doesn’t have to work. Another words he doesn’t have to question his boss, your grievance already did that. And any smart FT sup wouldn’t risk his job to retaliate against you for exercising your rights.Management often has personal motives to have sups work; to exceed/inflate required numbers. Some FT management, it’s a pride issue. They want to justify their position by proving time and time again they are the “go to guys”; even if it’s done artificially. For other FT management, it’s a monetary issue. They actually want to maximize their management incentive bonus on the backs of hard labor; even if it’s done artificially. They have kids in college, houses, and women to pay for, etc. The management officials whom agreed to the contract know full well that their subordinates work. They know that it is just part of the status quo, and if it’s producing profits why not turn a blind eye to it.

On the opposite end, supervisors working are responding to sabotaging and overall poor work ethic. I have seen new seniority to 40 year veterans do it. A simple example is an unloader who takes a 35 minute bathroom break every day and in reality half that time is spending talking sports with other employees. Another example could be a HVD sorter that stops the belt to take several phone calls. When you ask him why he stopped the belt he’s says he had an “emergency call”, however he has “emergency calls” several times a week. In reality he is talking to his girlfriend or a shop steward to rat some sup moving irregs. Take a DMP worker, who takes a box with a small hole in it, but still opens it up and “verifies” its contents by counting every single bolt one by one at the end of the sort. In reality, he decides to count one bolt at a time, on an overtime pay rate. Take a sorter who runs a recycle line on himself which jams his unloader’s flow. The unloader, stands there and when the supervisor finally realizes, he breaks the jam, then the unloader and sorter goes to furthest bathroom in the building. In reality they just wants to piss off the FT supervisor for sending they home at their minimum and to compel pt sups to work for an easy grievance or force more hours for themselves. Then they have bad apple stewards that rationalize this behavior at every management inquiry.

MY point is it’s a chess game between management and the Union. There are definitely little victims on either side. Each side abuses each other. Supervisors working is just part of that game. File away.

A lot of good points in not all .I cannot argue with anything you have said . As a steward if you are management I know we could find common ground. The key words are common sense as I have said before ! Afterall it is all about the customer without whom we would not be employed . I think sometimes everybody losses site of that.
 

Duha

New Member
Man I read all these posts, and if I wasn't already working for UPS I would turn down the job. Happy I didn't though, I work in probably one of the top5 biggest hubs in America and we don't have these issues. Supervisors and employs get along quite well. We on both sides turn our back to small infractions, because really they are small issues, and no reason to get all ape crap over small things like supervisors helping u get your area cleaned up after u just took it up the back side hard. Ya I had my fair share of supervisors that I had it with, in fact me and the hub manager got into it which resulted in me getting walked out the building, 3 years laters still got my job and that guy never talks crap to me anymore. He respects me for standing my ground and me not kissing the ground he walks on. On that rare occasion we do get a part timer, or full timer on a power trip, we just grieve them till they shut the heck up or get out. As for work grievances the way we handle it is the top seniority person gets the money, but they just buy pizza for the area or something. Don't be a greedy bastard and take that money from the other union workers its bad form, and people will lose respect for you. Also don't be afraid to grieve if you feel the need to, you pay your union dues might as well make them make your job easier. If you are threatened after the grievance do another one and grieve them for unfair treatment or threatening you. Maybe though my hub is just unique, but I doubt it people just are to afraid and stand up for themselves that is what I think.

Side not, this is a UPS forum and it censors cursing so weird, I learned to cuss properly working in the hub lol.
 

Kruldingo

Active Member
If everyone did their part in policing the contract then there would be too many "targets" to peg on people. Personally I try to keep the target on my back as I do my job as instructed & man up to my mistakes. I gig any mngmnt who can't do the same with a grievance. I've asked my mngmnt team numerous times including my center manager & Div Mngr "when are you going to start leading by example?"
 
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