ridiculous turnover

[GettingBrown]

New poster here. Read all of the posts in this thread to see very similar issues, as what's going on in our hub. I am very disgusted these last couple of years here at UPS. Last year we barely made it, as far as getting enough staffing in before peak slammed us, and this year it's a disaster. I can't even remember off hand, exactly how many new hires we had the past couple of months, but I think all but a few quit. The problem started within the past 2 years, with the company slowly not keeping just about every department fully staffed. I worked as a loader for years, and sorted for a couple. Later in the spring of this year, we had full staff, minus one. A few transferred to other bids, a few others quit. Everytime one left, the company either A: never replaced the employee or B: would only replace the employee, if that employee was a very very productive worker. We worked most of the year 30% understaffed. Then the summer months come, everyone wants to go on vacation, so when one goes, we almost never got any temporary fill ins from another department. So those months were brutal, working with a half a crew! This isn't all of it either.....as when our area had a few open bids, real high part time seniority workers would get the bids. One of the workers came back to my area from a nice box sort position, because he was on the bottom of the seniority last, even with more than 11 years of seniority. They would send him down to preload to load trailers all the time. This just wasn't an isolated thing either.....as many very high part time seniority employees who were on the bottom of the list in each of their departments, always got sent down to do crummy jobs like loading trailers, forced to work longer, thanks to all this grosely understaffing. So now in my area, the bottom part time seniority is almost 5 years, yikes. Moral totally sucks, and I hate that the most. You can cut through the tension with a piece of string. Sorry I don't think I'm whining here, and it's not like I'm complaining because of the remaining employees shifting to other departments, to either regain higher seniority or an easier position. Injuries have been way up, says so the District Manager, and ever since moving and promoting some of the better department managers to other hubs, and new ones taking place, it's been a complete nightmare. Sorry for the long rant, and feedback is most welcome.

 

[RockinRobin]

Thanks for the post, and welcome. I'm a fairly new poster too. Been lurking and reading for a very long time.

Your points are understandable and well taken.

Seniority issues in any Union shop are going to frustrate many. I don't want to get into it, and you have said a lot, but it is what it is. I can't imagine Loading after 10 years at a HUB, but I know it happens. Very few "Want" to load after 10 years, unless it's just to help out and bail someone out of a bind by power-loading for 30 minutes. I have worked until Midnight or longer on my Twilight due to under-staffing. It just happens. Nothing we can do but work through the shortage.

It's probably going to get worse as the years tick by. I have a feeling that finding hard labor PT employees to load trailers is going to be a challenge more and more as time goes on. Very few want that kind of workout on a nightly basis, five nights a week. I've seen a trend of more and more new hires quitting after day 1 or 2 than ever before. I heard one new hire, as he was leaving for the night, say "Target pays $15.00 an hour to start and it can't be any harder than this crap, plus we don't have to pay Union dues. This crap is not for me." As I posted earlier, there is a hard curve at our hub. New hires must buy steel toed shoes. They have to pay union dues in their first four paychecks. Many get their first paycheck and are shocked at the very little they take home, and they quit.

UPS is in a boom. As the economy has shrunk and settled at a new GDP, more and more people are buying product online rather than going to Brick and Mortar stores. Shoot, many are even turning to online Pharmacies for shipment of pharmaceuticals. I have a friend that even buys dry good groceries online and has them shipped. The volume of packages handled every year is bound to increase for the next 10 years. Luckily, Amazon went with the USPS. If they had jumped on Brown, we'd all be screwed. My opinion of course. Speaking of Brick and Mortor, we have one trailer that typically is loaded with 150 to 200 boxes of Facing Bricks. These boxes, about 18 inches by 4 feet, weigh 45 lbs. each. If you are the poor schmuck loading that trailer, and you get hit with, say, 180 boxed mid-load of those bricks, by the end of the trailer you are shot. But then you have another trailer to do. I've seen men of steel reduced to drooping mounds of exhaustion after loading that trailer. It's just a very hard job, plain and simple. 100 years ago, it may have been the norm to work that hard, but today, there are other options, although lean in this economy.

There are injuries galore. Muscle pulls, back injuries, hand injuries, stress injuries, twisted ankles, etc. And there is working conditions. The trailers are dirty. And they are obviously not air conditioned. Our trailers can go 10 degrees in the winter, and 95 degrees in the summer. Most of our loaders lose 40 lbs their first few months. Tough job. IMO, nothing worse than sweating your butt off, getting soak and wet, and then walking to your car in 15 degree weather with a stiff wind. Many develop bad colds. I prefer warmer weather.

I guess the only thing we can say is we have job security. What else can you say? Keep that chin up.

 

[TheFigurehead]

Thanks for the post, and welcome. I'm a fairly new poster too. Been lurking and reading for a very long time.

Your points are understandable and well taken.

Seniority issues in any Union shop are going to frustrate many. I don't want to get into it, and you have said a lot, but it is what it is. I can't imagine Loading after 10 years at a HUB, but I know it happens. Very few "Want" to load after 10 years, unless it's just to help out and bail someone out of a bind by power-loading for 30 minutes. I have worked until Midnight or longer on my Twilight due to under-staffing. It just happens. Nothing we can do but work through the shortage.

It's probably going to get worse as the years tick by. I have a feeling that finding hard labor PT employees to load trailers is going to be a challenge more and more as time goes on. Very few want that kind of workout on a nightly basis, five nights a week. I've seen a trend of more and more new hires quitting after day 1 or 2 than ever before. I heard one new hire, as he was leaving for the night, say "Target pays $15.00 an hour to start and it can't be any harder than this crap, plus we don't have to pay Union dues. This crap is not for me." As I posted earlier, there is a hard curve at our hub. New hires must buy steel toed shoes. They have to pay union dues in their first four paychecks. Many get their first paycheck and are shocked at the very little they take home, and they quit.

UPS is in a boom. As the economy has shrunk and settled at a new GDP, more and more people are buying product online rather than going to Brick and Mortar stores. Shoot, many are even turning to online Pharmacies for shipment of pharmaceuticals. I have a friend that even buys dry good groceries online and has them shipped. The volume of packages handled every year is bound to increase for the next 10 years. Luckily, Amazon went with the USPS. If they had jumped on Brown, we'd all be screwed. My opinion of course. Speaking of Brick and Mortor, we have one trailer that typically is loaded with 150 to 200 boxes of Facing Bricks. These boxes, about 18 inches by 4 feet, weigh 45 lbs. each. If you are the poor schmuck loading that trailer, and you get hit with, say, 180 boxed mid-load of those bricks, by the end of the trailer you are shot. But then you have another trailer to do. I've seen men of steel reduced to drooping mounds of exhaustion after loading that trailer. It's just a very hard job, plain and simple. 100 years ago, it may have been the norm to work that hard, but today, there are other options, although lean in this economy.

There are injuries galore. Muscle pulls, back injuries, hand injuries, stress injuries, twisted ankles, etc. And there is working conditions. The trailers are dirty. And they are obviously not air conditioned. Our trailers can go 10 degrees in the winter, and 95 degrees in the summer. Most of our loaders lose 40 lbs their first few months. Tough job. IMO, nothing worse than sweating your butt off, getting soak and wet, and then walking to your car in 15 degree weather with a stiff wind. Many develop bad colds. I prefer warmer weather.

I guess the only thing we can say is we have job security. What else can you say? Keep that chin up.

I don't think it's necessarily a problem with people not wanting to work "that hard" "these days''... though certainly those people exist... it's that no one wants to work "that hard" for that little. The starting pay hasn't, by any stretch of the imagination, kept pace with how much work is expected at UPS. As your coworker stated, Target pays more, and for what a seasoned UPS employee would probably consider "standing around". I had friends in high school who started at UPS (20 years ago) for nearly what they pay new hires now. That money was worth a heck of alot more in 1992 than it is now. On top of that, you won't see benefits, vacation, or paid holidays for a year.

I don't know what they think they are offering to entice quality people to work at UPS. If they made it seem, even a little bit, worthwhile, financially, to commit oneself to that amount of work 5 days a week, more people would stick around.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I don't know what they think they are offering to entice quality people to work at UPS. If they made it seem, even a little bit, worthwhile, financially, to commit oneself to that amount of work 5 days a week, more people would stick around.

Could it be that they are not looking to entice quality people but rather are content with people who are "good enough" to get the job done? I 100% agree that the starting wage is woefully inadequate. The new contract does a little to address this but IMO not nearly enough.

As far as the benefits go, UPS figured out a long time ago that a lot of their PTers were there simply for the benefits. Benefits are not cheap and delaying them for 12 months (18 months for family) is a smart business move.

I should mention that I was hired off the street so I never had to go through what a lot of you have to deal with on a daily basis.

BTW, where did you hear that Amazon went to the Post Office?

 

[TheFigurehead]

Could it be that they are not looking to entice quality people but rather are content with people who are "good enough" to get the job done?

Well, that's sort of what I meant by "quality people". The bar is pretty low at UPS. The people they hire in my center can't do the job... even by the end of the probationary period. They should be shown the door, but they're the only ones left, so they keep the position. The seasonal help they've got should have been screened out in the interview process... but they need bodies, and these are the only ones that applied, so I get to work with them.

$10 an hour with a dollar after 90 days might be a little more in line with getting "adequate" employees. You aren't going to get many Mensa members in at that rate, but maybe you'd get a few more people willing to put in an honest nights work.

As far as the benefits go, UPS figured out a long time ago that a lot of their PTers were there simply for the benefits. Benefits are not cheap and delaying them for 12 months (18 months for family) is a smart business move.

A smart business move? I suppose it depends on how you want to look at it. Financially, in the short term? Sure, fantastic from a purely accounting standpoint... but, here again, you are limiting the pool of employees who are willing to accept the terms UPS offers. I understand it saves them money... but it also costs them talent, morale, and the dedication of new employees. UPS doesn't have their backs (and clearly, neither do the teamsters... but that's a whole different topic), why should they kill themselves every night for UPS?

BTW, where did you hear that Amazon went to the Post Office?

I, personally, never said that. I do know that there was a news story recently that Amazon had reached a deal with the USPS to deliver packages, in a few select markets, on Sundays.

 

[PT Car Washer]

I don't think it's necessarily a problem with people not wanting to work "that hard" "these days''... though certainly those people exist... it's that no one wants to work "that hard" for that little. The starting pay hasn't, by any stretch of the imagination, kept pace with how much work is expected at UPS. As your coworker stated, Target pays more, and for what a seasoned UPS employee would probably consider "standing around". I had friends in high school who started at UPS (20 years ago) for nearly what they pay new hires now. That money was worth a heck of alot more in 1992 than it is now. On top of that, you won't see benefits, vacation, or paid holidays for a year.

I don't know what they think they are offering to entice quality people to work at UPS. If they made it seem, even a little bit, worthwhile, financially, to commit oneself to that amount of work 5 days a week, more people would stick around.

30 years ago starting pay was $8.00 an hour which was way above minimum wage. No problem getting good help. You get what you pay for and the hiring problem is only going to get worse. If that is possible.

 

[RockinRobin]

All good points, guys.

Most of our PT new hires are kids. I mean barely out of High School. Some are lured by the "Tuition Reimbursement" and some just want the money. Many of them quit after the first day. Some last a few days, but most never make it past the first week.

You can't keep good people with paying 9 bucks an hour and no bennies for a year, with the kind of labor involved with "most" beginning sort jobs at the HUBS. Loading trailers is no picnic Boo Boo. I'm in incredible shape, but I still get hand, wrist, elbow, back, leg, foot, toenail, fingernail, finger, toe, shoulder, butt, and hamstring pain. (Did I cover everything?) Tough job. Especially for 10 bucks an hour. If you are in it for the money, you'll go elsewhere. Quickly, unless that is your only option.

Most can't see past six months or a year. I stuck it out, and am seeing some bennies. Many kids won't. That's the fact. Many of us also have FT jobs elsewhere, so we are not dependent on the pay. It's just mad money for us as a thank you for working out. Hey, I get paid to work out. How cool is that?

Most businesses that have that high a turn-over are out of business. But as we all know, UPS simply has too much capital and simply can not fail. Unless some insane pitfall happens. And if that happens we'll all be gone, probably world-wide. This aside, turnover is an issue. UPS will continue to get more flow through the HUBS and without labor to Sort, it's going to be a challenge. A few of our SUPES and some very strong guys have worked until 2 or 3 AM on our Twilight. That's nuts. Rather than a 4 hour shift, you are talking a 9 or 10 hour shift. Ouch. The storm is coming.

Well, Job Security for those of us brave enough (and strong enough) to stick it out!