Home
Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
New posts
Latest activity
Members
Current visitors
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Home
Forums
Brown Cafe UPS Forum
UPS Union Issues
Right to Work (for less)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="AssistantSanta" data-source="post: 919967" data-attributes="member: 38503"><p><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'"><span style="font-size: 12px">That was just from the result of web search when I searched compulsive union membership. I've never worked in a place with gung-ho union presence before. </span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'">Not that my personal anecdote speaks for statistics, but I found this site when I was searching about being a helper. Not that you'd know any more, but the web master have access to search keyword and referrer ID. </span></span></p><p> <span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'"></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'">Yes, it is, and your point is? It doesn't make a whole lot of difference. It's tax <strong>DEDUCTION </strong>not <strong>CREDIT</strong>, therefore, on $1,030 income, your tax liability is the same as if you earned $1,000. For financial aid app and such, it still gets reported to worknumber.com as $1,030 income. If your tax rate is 20% total, $30 gross pay $30 dues, but this still entails out-of-pocket equivalent damage of $24. You don't get a $30 credit towards the AMOUNT of taxes owed. Essentially, you're arguing that $24 pocketbook damage isn't nearly as bad as $30 damage.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'">Uh, so no likey = bad ? </span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'"></span></span></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'">It's way too wordy and I find that its written like credit card policies. It's obviously written that by it defaults to full membership. I expect credit card policies to be written like that, because its their intent to maximize their interest, but this is supposedly looking for YOUR best interest.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'">Yes, working anywhere is voluntarily. Whats not so crystal clear is that your ability to become employed is not related to signing the form. Also note the unconscionable clause that non-member mandatory due rate is only available upon special followup request. </span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'">Member "iowa boy" mistakenly believed that you can't work without joining the union and I suspect many others do also.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'">At orientation, I had no idea I'd end up getting some union paperwork and we got told "you have to sign it, then deal with it later with the union if you don't like it". So, I was made to feel like I won't get to work unless I signed that thing, hence creating a false sense of "employment conditional to union membership" </span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'">Here is what I mean by plain English and unbiased language. </span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'">RTW version: In state of ____, you have the option to join the IBT union. By joining, you will be charged $xx + $xx and you will have a say in Union matters, however you may also be subject to union discipline for violation of its bylaws. You may change your membership status at anytime. </span></span></p><p>Join IBT? ____ yes, ____ no. ______(signature here) </p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'">Non-RTW version: The State of ____ is not a Right-to-Work state and as an employee of a bargaining unit, payment towards collective bargaining effort is mandatory. You're entitled to representation regardless of membership. Membership provides union participation rights, but you're also subject to disciplines and fines for violating its bylaws. You may change your status at anytime. You're entitled to a refund of your dues in full if you accumulate less than 30 working days of service. Contact the office of HR to initiate the request. </span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'">The dues are $xx.xxx as a member. $xx.xx as a non-member agency fee payor.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'">Join IBT? ___ yes, ____ no. _____(signature)</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'">The two rates should be UPFRONT, not "you must contact us to get a new quote" </span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'">Now why the Union wouldn't do so and provide more transparency, I don't know. Perhaps someone else can tell me. The version you posted isn't in plain English, clearly not an unbiased contract and I find it predatory. </span></span></p><p></p><p>(not you must contact us and request non-member rate BS) </p><p></p><p> <span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'">Good. I don't think I need to write up an argument to convince you that credit card companies, cell phone carriers and the like are there to look out for your best interest like the Union claims, so it makes sense to read it thoroughly.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'"></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px">Cell phone carriers lose le<span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'">gal challenge from time to time for writing up confusing and misleading contracts. For example, <a href="http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2009/10/27/08-56394.pdf" target="_blank">AT&T v. Concepcion</a></span></span><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'"> State of WA v. T-Mobile challenged that predatory arbitration clause was not enforceable under WA state law. </span>But again, its clearly unnecessary to say these companies are not there to look for your best interest.</p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'">You're given the choice to not sign and not get the loan or to sign and get a loan under conditions written up in a way that I think predominantly favors the party who wrote up the contract. The consumer really don't have a choice but to have it their way or not have it period. </span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'">When you key in the rate and compounding method from payday loan contract into the calculator the calculated value and what they charge are the same. The government still got in and required them to put in big font that its a HIGH INTEREST RATE LOAN, because the state found their practice as predatory lending.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'">I'm pleased that you're at least willing to realize the similarity in these contracts and the union one. Why an organization that proclaims looking out for your best interest have contract written in a predatory language like businesses looking out for themselves at your expense is what I don't understand. Hoaxster's response a few posts earlier comes to my mind. </span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms'">I think its uncool that something that could be written in plain English and written in neutral manner is deliberately written in favor of one side and drown you in unnecessary wordiness. </span></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AssistantSanta, post: 919967, member: 38503"] [FONT=comic sans ms][SIZE=3]That was just from the result of web search when I searched compulsive union membership. I've never worked in a place with gung-ho union presence before. [/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=3][FONT=comic sans ms]Not that my personal anecdote speaks for statistics, but I found this site when I was searching about being a helper. Not that you'd know any more, but the web master have access to search keyword and referrer ID. [/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=3][FONT=comic sans ms]Yes, it is, and your point is? It doesn't make a whole lot of difference. It's tax [B]DEDUCTION [/B]not [B]CREDIT[/B], therefore, on $1,030 income, your tax liability is the same as if you earned $1,000. For financial aid app and such, it still gets reported to worknumber.com as $1,030 income. If your tax rate is 20% total, $30 gross pay $30 dues, but this still entails out-of-pocket equivalent damage of $24. You don't get a $30 credit towards the AMOUNT of taxes owed. Essentially, you're arguing that $24 pocketbook damage isn't nearly as bad as $30 damage. [/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=3][FONT=comic sans ms]Uh, so no likey = bad ? [/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=3][FONT=comic sans ms]It's way too wordy and I find that its written like credit card policies. It's obviously written that by it defaults to full membership. I expect credit card policies to be written like that, because its their intent to maximize their interest, but this is supposedly looking for YOUR best interest. Yes, working anywhere is voluntarily. Whats not so crystal clear is that your ability to become employed is not related to signing the form. Also note the unconscionable clause that non-member mandatory due rate is only available upon special followup request. Member "iowa boy" mistakenly believed that you can't work without joining the union and I suspect many others do also. At orientation, I had no idea I'd end up getting some union paperwork and we got told "you have to sign it, then deal with it later with the union if you don't like it". So, I was made to feel like I won't get to work unless I signed that thing, hence creating a false sense of "employment conditional to union membership" Here is what I mean by plain English and unbiased language. RTW version: In state of ____, you have the option to join the IBT union. By joining, you will be charged $xx + $xx and you will have a say in Union matters, however you may also be subject to union discipline for violation of its bylaws. You may change your membership status at anytime. [/FONT][/SIZE] Join IBT? ____ yes, ____ no. ______(signature here) [SIZE=3][FONT=comic sans ms] Non-RTW version: The State of ____ is not a Right-to-Work state and as an employee of a bargaining unit, payment towards collective bargaining effort is mandatory. You're entitled to representation regardless of membership. Membership provides union participation rights, but you're also subject to disciplines and fines for violating its bylaws. You may change your status at anytime. You're entitled to a refund of your dues in full if you accumulate less than 30 working days of service. Contact the office of HR to initiate the request. The dues are $xx.xxx as a member. $xx.xx as a non-member agency fee payor. Join IBT? ___ yes, ____ no. _____(signature) The two rates should be UPFRONT, not "you must contact us to get a new quote" Now why the Union wouldn't do so and provide more transparency, I don't know. Perhaps someone else can tell me. The version you posted isn't in plain English, clearly not an unbiased contract and I find it predatory. [/FONT][/SIZE] (not you must contact us and request non-member rate BS) [SIZE=3][FONT=comic sans ms]Good. I don't think I need to write up an argument to convince you that credit card companies, cell phone carriers and the like are there to look out for your best interest like the Union claims, so it makes sense to read it thoroughly. [/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=3]Cell phone carriers lose le[FONT=comic sans ms]gal challenge from time to time for writing up confusing and misleading contracts. For example, [URL="http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2009/10/27/08-56394.pdf"]AT&T v. Concepcion[/URL][/FONT][/SIZE][FONT=comic sans ms] State of WA v. T-Mobile challenged that predatory arbitration clause was not enforceable under WA state law. [/FONT]But again, its clearly unnecessary to say these companies are not there to look for your best interest. [SIZE=3][FONT=comic sans ms]You're given the choice to not sign and not get the loan or to sign and get a loan under conditions written up in a way that I think predominantly favors the party who wrote up the contract. The consumer really don't have a choice but to have it their way or not have it period. When you key in the rate and compounding method from payday loan contract into the calculator the calculated value and what they charge are the same. The government still got in and required them to put in big font that its a HIGH INTEREST RATE LOAN, because the state found their practice as predatory lending. I'm pleased that you're at least willing to realize the similarity in these contracts and the union one. Why an organization that proclaims looking out for your best interest have contract written in a predatory language like businesses looking out for themselves at your expense is what I don't understand. Hoaxster's response a few posts earlier comes to my mind. I think its uncool that something that could be written in plain English and written in neutral manner is deliberately written in favor of one side and drown you in unnecessary wordiness. [/FONT][/SIZE] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Home
Forums
Brown Cafe UPS Forum
UPS Union Issues
Right to Work (for less)
Top