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<blockquote data-quote="vantexan" data-source="post: 1058174" data-attributes="member: 24302"><p>We make cars, jets, guns(!), and plenty of other things. Certainly not the manufacturing base we used to have. I've never said it happened overnight, only that Obama has exploded the debt. Bush ran up over 4 trillion in debt in 8 years, and until Obama got elected Bush was the biggest spender in history. Obama is at about 6 trillion in 4 years. And shows no real willingness to reign it in. What Republicans fear is a Cloward and Piven strategy that will overwhelm the country's safety net with runaway spending that will cause a crash. C and P were the 2 Columbia professors who were behind the near-bankrupting of New York City in I believe '74 or '75. The idea being if you bankrupt the system you can start over and build a more just society. They did it by convincing a well known black radical to sign up as many people as possible for every program New York offered the poor. </p><p></p><p>I've done my share of protesting on this forum, even offered a way to get back at the system to force businesses to be more generous to their employees. When push comes to shove no one is willing to do what I proposed and the system will continue to exploit the working man. Check out "Drop Out of Your 401k" for some very heated debate. The very lifeblood of the stock market is the 401k money of millions of workers pumped into it. Those quarterly meetings corporations have with Wall Street analysts are the big funds that manage 401ks demanding to know the what and why of whether they should invest their(our) funds by buying a company's stock. The corporations aren't trying to get them to invest directly into their companies. They want them to buy stock to drive up prices so that when CEO's and other corporate officers sell some of their own shares they can get a higher price. Especially important if one is exercising stock options. It's a symbiotic relationship between corporations and the big funds that feeds on 401k contributions. Want to know why your benefits and pay are squat? The corporations are trying to get your money by impressing the funds so in the end we contribute to the sorry state we are in. If everyone, heck if only a decent % refused to contribute until we started seeing better pay and benefits it would make a huge difference. I mean all companies, not just FedEx employees. But try to tell that to the average guy who thinks his 401k will make him rich and he'll say no way, you are crazy. So we do ourselves in and don't even realize it. When I mentioned this before I got screamed at by UPS guys who made good money when the market was good, especially since they are in a position to put the max contribution in. But this market is crap, except for the corporate and Wall Street honchos who benefit directly from our 401k money. Those of us who are eking out an existence can't contribute enough to really help ourselves, but notice how the corporations offer some matching funds to get us to contribute something. Does anyone really think they do that because they care about us?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="vantexan, post: 1058174, member: 24302"] We make cars, jets, guns(!), and plenty of other things. Certainly not the manufacturing base we used to have. I've never said it happened overnight, only that Obama has exploded the debt. Bush ran up over 4 trillion in debt in 8 years, and until Obama got elected Bush was the biggest spender in history. Obama is at about 6 trillion in 4 years. And shows no real willingness to reign it in. What Republicans fear is a Cloward and Piven strategy that will overwhelm the country's safety net with runaway spending that will cause a crash. C and P were the 2 Columbia professors who were behind the near-bankrupting of New York City in I believe '74 or '75. The idea being if you bankrupt the system you can start over and build a more just society. They did it by convincing a well known black radical to sign up as many people as possible for every program New York offered the poor. I've done my share of protesting on this forum, even offered a way to get back at the system to force businesses to be more generous to their employees. When push comes to shove no one is willing to do what I proposed and the system will continue to exploit the working man. Check out "Drop Out of Your 401k" for some very heated debate. The very lifeblood of the stock market is the 401k money of millions of workers pumped into it. Those quarterly meetings corporations have with Wall Street analysts are the big funds that manage 401ks demanding to know the what and why of whether they should invest their(our) funds by buying a company's stock. The corporations aren't trying to get them to invest directly into their companies. They want them to buy stock to drive up prices so that when CEO's and other corporate officers sell some of their own shares they can get a higher price. Especially important if one is exercising stock options. It's a symbiotic relationship between corporations and the big funds that feeds on 401k contributions. Want to know why your benefits and pay are squat? The corporations are trying to get your money by impressing the funds so in the end we contribute to the sorry state we are in. If everyone, heck if only a decent % refused to contribute until we started seeing better pay and benefits it would make a huge difference. I mean all companies, not just FedEx employees. But try to tell that to the average guy who thinks his 401k will make him rich and he'll say no way, you are crazy. So we do ourselves in and don't even realize it. When I mentioned this before I got screamed at by UPS guys who made good money when the market was good, especially since they are in a position to put the max contribution in. But this market is crap, except for the corporate and Wall Street honchos who benefit directly from our 401k money. Those of us who are eking out an existence can't contribute enough to really help ourselves, but notice how the corporations offer some matching funds to get us to contribute something. Does anyone really think they do that because they care about us? [/QUOTE]
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