TheVoice
United Prole. Socialist
Does anyone else get the feeling that Hoffa is in the companies back pocket, the way management is defending him?1
Front pocket, hell, he is in all four pockets.
The Voice
Front pocket, hell, he is in all four pockets.
The Voice
brazenbrown
Well-Known Member
But we all know that O J was quilty just like Carey.
Wow you read my mind!
I was just thinking O.J. and Carey had a lot in common with regards to getting off the hook for something you knew they were guilty of.
You know those crazy people who think OJ is the bomb...It's the same with the TDU faction that holds Carey in the same light..
If Carey was so innocent why was he banned from the union forever??
He left his scar on UPS 10 years ago and some of my customers will never forget.....
And yes he was damn lucky he got off just like O J !!
tieguy
Banned
Does anyone else get the feeling that Hoffa is in the companies back pocket, the way management is defending him?
I think its great the way you guys claim to be teamsters but change your tune depending on the subject and which way the wind is blowing. When you're debating APWA then the core teamsters and tdu are all on the same page. When debating the contract offer core teamsters are all of a sudden company lovers and tdu is bashing them with every ounce of energy. I haven't really seen the apwa crowd say much so I'm not sure where they stand.
Hell management does not need to "divide and conquer" you guys are doing a great job all by yourself.
tieguy
Banned
Wow. "the Voice" is learning to speak english? No rhetorical speech expounding the forces of evil "Voice"?
TheVoice
United Prole. Socialist
tieguy
Banned
wow , I think that was a comeback "Voice" style. You crack me up. Bet you iron your pajamas before you go to bed.
brazenbrown
Well-Known Member
Wow, we must be old soul mates of some sort..I knew you were waiting for me but I held back just a little..
Never ever claim to have all the answers...What do you want to figure?
And your point??
RockyRogue
Agent of Change
He's still banned because he's a menace to stability within the IBT. And the IBT doesn't need any more instability, let alone unstable leadership. It has enough over-grown egos as is IMHO! -Rocky
tieguy
Banned
heres some interesting stuff posted on teamster net of all places. While it appears to be more guilt by association type material it does provide some interesting info on a guy alleged to have cleaned up mob influences in the teamsters union.
FACT: Shortly after his inaguration Ron Carey appointed Bill Genoese (Sec-Treas of Local 732) Trustee of Local 295. Court testimony by mob informant/government witness Al D' Arco later said this was a "payback" to the mob for their help in defeating RV Durham whom D' Arco testified the mob wanted to "take out" in the 1992 IBT Election. Two years after Carey appointed Genese, Genoese was permanently barred by IRB on 7-11-94 for mob
ties.
FACT: D'Arco's testimony lead to the conviction of scores of mobsters nationwide. The FBI cited him as "very credible". All of this was mentionedin a Time Magazine article titled " A Reformer and The Mob" by Richard Behar in Nov 1993. Please note: Ron Carey NEVER demanded a retraction from Time, nor did he attempt to sue Time for libel. I wonder why!?
FACT: Carey testified as a character witness in 1975 for John Conti. Conti was later removed from a Casino in Las Vegas (for being a prohibited person in the blue book) with Angelo Urgitano- a person identified as a "Luchese family crime capo". An article about this incident, naming both men appeared on page 52 of the Boston Globe's Sport Section on March, 19, 1989. Conti was identified by the Senate Permanent Select Subcomittee on
Investigations "Five New York Familes LCN Membership Roster" on page 24. Where he is listed as "Conti, John Joseph. Affliation Luchese. DOB:7/28/35". The Federal extortion trial Carey testified as a charater witness for Conti was US v. Joseph Natale, Frank Russo, John Conti 73 Crim. 291. Carey's
testimony can be found on pgs. 427-429 of the transcripts.
FACT: Ron Carey appointed Bill Cardinale to a Local 804 post. on 5-27-94 Bill Cardinale was suspended by IRB for "mail fraud".
FACT: As reported in both Time and Business Weelk magazines Ron Carey acquired a lavish horde of Sunbelt real estate. Including an exquisite 340,000 ocenfront property in Florida's trendy Lower Matecumbe Key (In the Florida Keys), and a Scottsdale Arizona condo (not far from where Jackie
Presser used to live). In 1989 his condo fees, taxes and mortgage payments totaled at least 52,000 dollars. He earned only 42,000 dollars that year. Keep in mind he is raising a family of five, and his wife and father are living with him at the time (Household of eight ). When asked about the improbability of these "voodoo economics", Carey replied "I ate a lot of tuna fish sandwiches".
FACT: Ron Carey signed an immunity from prosecution agreement. For his testimony against John Long, the Secretary-Treasurer of his own Local804 for the "Penvest" criminal activities.The agreement which goes on to specifically give Carey immunity from criminal tax prosecution, on 11-20-1987. This three page document was signed by Ron Carey, his attorney Fred Hafetz, and for Rudy Giuliani by John McPhee Asst. US Attorney, and Howard Wilson, Chief of the Criminal Division. Long was convicted, by the way. This was why Carey was dubbed "Mr. Immunity" in the 1991 IBT Elections against Shea, and RV Durham.
FACT: On Mon Sept 6, 1993 the Washington Post published a front page article detailing Carey's mob ties, etc. This article was written by Jerry Seper. Two days later, on Sept. 8. 1993 IRB issued a statement to Seper signed by the IRB administrator (which Judge Webster later conceded he was not consulted on) saying it had "no credible evidence" on Carey's mob ties, etc.
FACT: in the 1970's Ron Carey's brother Carlisle Carey married Josephine Garafalo, widow of Columbo associate Angelo "Fat Tony" Garafalo, who died in Sing Sing. NEWSDAY repeatedly referred to a company he operated named "Royal Sanitation" as a component of the Long Island garbage cartel-
operated by the Columbo and Gambino crime families. After Carey married Garafalo, the IRB quietly conceded he joined Royal Sanitaion management. Royal Sanitation was represented by IBT Local 813. Later IRB's Lacey charaterized LU 813 as one of the most notorious and corrupt Local Unions in the United States. It's Secretary-Treasurer, and it's President were both banned from IBT by IRB in 1993 for ties to Organized Crime.
MORE FACTS: IRB banned Bill "The Condom King" Hamilton head at IBT Governmental Affairs (DRIVE) for "EMBEZZLING MONEY" and "causing IBT fund to be used to obtain money for a candidate". The candidate? RON CAREY.
FACT: Shortly after his inaguration Ron Carey appointed Bill Genoese (Sec-Treas of Local 732) Trustee of Local 295. Court testimony by mob informant/government witness Al D' Arco later said this was a "payback" to the mob for their help in defeating RV Durham whom D' Arco testified the mob wanted to "take out" in the 1992 IBT Election. Two years after Carey appointed Genese, Genoese was permanently barred by IRB on 7-11-94 for mob
ties.
FACT: D'Arco's testimony lead to the conviction of scores of mobsters nationwide. The FBI cited him as "very credible". All of this was mentionedin a Time Magazine article titled " A Reformer and The Mob" by Richard Behar in Nov 1993. Please note: Ron Carey NEVER demanded a retraction from Time, nor did he attempt to sue Time for libel. I wonder why!?
FACT: Carey testified as a character witness in 1975 for John Conti. Conti was later removed from a Casino in Las Vegas (for being a prohibited person in the blue book) with Angelo Urgitano- a person identified as a "Luchese family crime capo". An article about this incident, naming both men appeared on page 52 of the Boston Globe's Sport Section on March, 19, 1989. Conti was identified by the Senate Permanent Select Subcomittee on
Investigations "Five New York Familes LCN Membership Roster" on page 24. Where he is listed as "Conti, John Joseph. Affliation Luchese. DOB:7/28/35". The Federal extortion trial Carey testified as a charater witness for Conti was US v. Joseph Natale, Frank Russo, John Conti 73 Crim. 291. Carey's
testimony can be found on pgs. 427-429 of the transcripts.
FACT: Ron Carey appointed Bill Cardinale to a Local 804 post. on 5-27-94 Bill Cardinale was suspended by IRB for "mail fraud".
FACT: As reported in both Time and Business Weelk magazines Ron Carey acquired a lavish horde of Sunbelt real estate. Including an exquisite 340,000 ocenfront property in Florida's trendy Lower Matecumbe Key (In the Florida Keys), and a Scottsdale Arizona condo (not far from where Jackie
Presser used to live). In 1989 his condo fees, taxes and mortgage payments totaled at least 52,000 dollars. He earned only 42,000 dollars that year. Keep in mind he is raising a family of five, and his wife and father are living with him at the time (Household of eight ). When asked about the improbability of these "voodoo economics", Carey replied "I ate a lot of tuna fish sandwiches".
FACT: Ron Carey signed an immunity from prosecution agreement. For his testimony against John Long, the Secretary-Treasurer of his own Local804 for the "Penvest" criminal activities.The agreement which goes on to specifically give Carey immunity from criminal tax prosecution, on 11-20-1987. This three page document was signed by Ron Carey, his attorney Fred Hafetz, and for Rudy Giuliani by John McPhee Asst. US Attorney, and Howard Wilson, Chief of the Criminal Division. Long was convicted, by the way. This was why Carey was dubbed "Mr. Immunity" in the 1991 IBT Elections against Shea, and RV Durham.
FACT: On Mon Sept 6, 1993 the Washington Post published a front page article detailing Carey's mob ties, etc. This article was written by Jerry Seper. Two days later, on Sept. 8. 1993 IRB issued a statement to Seper signed by the IRB administrator (which Judge Webster later conceded he was not consulted on) saying it had "no credible evidence" on Carey's mob ties, etc.
FACT: in the 1970's Ron Carey's brother Carlisle Carey married Josephine Garafalo, widow of Columbo associate Angelo "Fat Tony" Garafalo, who died in Sing Sing. NEWSDAY repeatedly referred to a company he operated named "Royal Sanitation" as a component of the Long Island garbage cartel-
operated by the Columbo and Gambino crime families. After Carey married Garafalo, the IRB quietly conceded he joined Royal Sanitaion management. Royal Sanitation was represented by IBT Local 813. Later IRB's Lacey charaterized LU 813 as one of the most notorious and corrupt Local Unions in the United States. It's Secretary-Treasurer, and it's President were both banned from IBT by IRB in 1993 for ties to Organized Crime.
MORE FACTS: IRB banned Bill "The Condom King" Hamilton head at IBT Governmental Affairs (DRIVE) for "EMBEZZLING MONEY" and "causing IBT fund to be used to obtain money for a candidate". The candidate? RON CAREY.
RockyRogue
Agent of Change
Fair enough. Had to take a shot! -Rocky
tieguy
Banned
Interesting article that ran back in november of 97.
Until recently, it seemed Carey held the trump card of relative moral superiority. Elected in 1991, his supporters say he did indeed clean up the union with the help of the Independent Review Board, the oversight group that polices the union, setting up trusteeships at more than 70 districts in need of reform. It was a fresh start for a union besieged with corruption and a history of links with organized crime. Six past union presidents were indicted on criminal charges, including Jimmy Hoffa, father of Carey's current rival, who went to prison for jury tampering and then disappeared from the parking lot of a Michigan restaurant in 1975.
Sam Theodus , a former executive-board member of the union under Carey, and a 45-year veteran of the Teamsters, pushed to reform Teamsters elections during the autocratic reign of former president Jackie Presser. A Carey supporter in 1992, Theodus resigned in 1995 as chairman of ethical practices in the union's central region because he believed the union was tolerating threats and intimidation at union elections.
"I thought Ron Carey might be the answer, but they put the fox in charge of the chicken coop. I had loyalty but gradually his administration started to deteriorate," Theodus tells Insight. So is it really more of the same? "We got rid of organized crime in the union, but evidently the mob-controlled unions went to government-controlled unions," he adds. "I wonder now who the biggest crooks are."
Hoffa supporters meanwhile portray Carey as an FBI informant who willingly gives up his enemies while protecting his friends. It is true that the union chief has cooperated with prosecutors, testifying against Teamsters treasurer John Long, tied to an organized crime pension-fund scheme in 1987. Hoffa's supporters claim Carey has had a long association with the Lucchese crime family and FBI and court records obtained by Insight suggest this connection might exist. One such tie has Carey testifying on behalf of John Conti, who is described by a Senate subcommittee as a "made" soldier of the Lucchese family Conti subsequently was acquitted in a loan-shark case in which two of his subordinates were convicted.
And Michael Moroney, who has been investigating labor corruption for 17 years for the government, claims Carey is knee-deep in mob ties. In 1992 Moroney worked with federal prosecutor Thomas Puccio as a court-appointed trustee of New York Local 295, which had been linked to the Lucchese crime family. Moroney tried to extend the trusteeship to Local 851, which was believed to be moving in. But Moroney says Carey fought him. During the power struggle, Moroney met with FBI informant and former Lucchese family boss Alfonso D'Arco. Moroney tells Insight, "I spent two days with D'Arco and he started blasting me, saying `You guys are so stupid, Ron Carey was ours. He was always an associate of the Lucchese family. He was in business with us. He made money with us for years.'"
Until recently, it seemed Carey held the trump card of relative moral superiority. Elected in 1991, his supporters say he did indeed clean up the union with the help of the Independent Review Board, the oversight group that polices the union, setting up trusteeships at more than 70 districts in need of reform. It was a fresh start for a union besieged with corruption and a history of links with organized crime. Six past union presidents were indicted on criminal charges, including Jimmy Hoffa, father of Carey's current rival, who went to prison for jury tampering and then disappeared from the parking lot of a Michigan restaurant in 1975.
Sam Theodus , a former executive-board member of the union under Carey, and a 45-year veteran of the Teamsters, pushed to reform Teamsters elections during the autocratic reign of former president Jackie Presser. A Carey supporter in 1992, Theodus resigned in 1995 as chairman of ethical practices in the union's central region because he believed the union was tolerating threats and intimidation at union elections.
"I thought Ron Carey might be the answer, but they put the fox in charge of the chicken coop. I had loyalty but gradually his administration started to deteriorate," Theodus tells Insight. So is it really more of the same? "We got rid of organized crime in the union, but evidently the mob-controlled unions went to government-controlled unions," he adds. "I wonder now who the biggest crooks are."
Hoffa supporters meanwhile portray Carey as an FBI informant who willingly gives up his enemies while protecting his friends. It is true that the union chief has cooperated with prosecutors, testifying against Teamsters treasurer John Long, tied to an organized crime pension-fund scheme in 1987. Hoffa's supporters claim Carey has had a long association with the Lucchese crime family and FBI and court records obtained by Insight suggest this connection might exist. One such tie has Carey testifying on behalf of John Conti, who is described by a Senate subcommittee as a "made" soldier of the Lucchese family Conti subsequently was acquitted in a loan-shark case in which two of his subordinates were convicted.
And Michael Moroney, who has been investigating labor corruption for 17 years for the government, claims Carey is knee-deep in mob ties. In 1992 Moroney worked with federal prosecutor Thomas Puccio as a court-appointed trustee of New York Local 295, which had been linked to the Lucchese crime family. Moroney tried to extend the trusteeship to Local 851, which was believed to be moving in. But Moroney says Carey fought him. During the power struggle, Moroney met with FBI informant and former Lucchese family boss Alfonso D'Arco. Moroney tells Insight, "I spent two days with D'Arco and he started blasting me, saying `You guys are so stupid, Ron Carey was ours. He was always an associate of the Lucchese family. He was in business with us. He made money with us for years.'"
local804
Well-Known Member
Tie,
Would you expect praise and glory from a Teamster website with Ron Careys foe to post all of the glorius things Ron has done for the union? If Ron decided to make a return to the IBT, I can bet you my life, Hoffa would not endorse it and I am sure you know why. Ron Carey is/was the elected leader to run the Teamsters and was proven Not Guilty in a court of law. Imo, Ron will be back shortly in the labor movement. Remeber, Ron is a free man and not guilty is not hearsay or guilty by assosiation, but the biggest fact that can be associated to him.
Would you expect praise and glory from a Teamster website with Ron Careys foe to post all of the glorius things Ron has done for the union? If Ron decided to make a return to the IBT, I can bet you my life, Hoffa would not endorse it and I am sure you know why. Ron Carey is/was the elected leader to run the Teamsters and was proven Not Guilty in a court of law. Imo, Ron will be back shortly in the labor movement. Remeber, Ron is a free man and not guilty is not hearsay or guilty by assosiation, but the biggest fact that can be associated to him.
brazenbrown
Well-Known Member
You want me to speculate so you can shoot my opinion down like you did Rocky's? LOL I thought there was some truth to Rocky's statement.
Why don't you cut to the chase and just tell everyone what the only answer you will accept is.
I saw that Cheryl posted this in another thread. You must need a reminder.
spec·u·la·tion
- Inference or judgment based on inconclusive or incomplete evidence; guesswork.
- A statement, opinion, or conclusion based on guesswork: Local804's speculations are impossible to verify.
- Reasoning that involves the formation of conclusions from incomplete evidence.
tieguy
Banned
heres a terrific article from a socialist view on Carey. Again he does not score well.
https://web.archive.org/web/20080621034012/http://www.wsws.org/polemics/1997/dec1997/carey.shtml
https://web.archive.org/web/20080621034012/http://www.wsws.org/polemics/1997/dec1997/carey.shtml
tieguy
Banned
804 honestly I believe carey had a lot of leadership skills and was a great motivator for the teamsters. But there are too many disturbing charges hanging out there on Ronnie to allow me to ever think the guy is sqeaky clean. The fact he ran a new york union all those years leads me to believe he can not be clean. You don't run a new york city local without help from the mob. Careys list of detractors is much longer then just the hoffa camp. Ronnie has a lot of assets to his name. I find it funny when you guys brag that he cut his own salary when the guy is every bit as rich as the corporate leaders he slammed for being greedy. I sincerely hope you find your true reformist that cleans up the teamsters but Ronnie was not the one.
local804
Well-Known Member
I did not shoot down Rockys statement, I am just curious if you guys know why Ron is banned from the Teamster movement and I have not gotten the real answer. Rockys point of view might be an acceptable answer but not the answer the teamsters keep him out. Speculation isnt the reason the Teamsters are banning Ron from entering the local, they have thier reasons. Instead of joining the lets bash carey bandwagon, atleast know why he is banned from the teamsters.Still waiting for your response ......Thanks for the reminder though......
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Once again, Ron Carey's expulsion was upheld by the Second Circuit Court of Appeals. The subsequent civil trial where Carey was acquitted did not overturn Carey's expulsion. It would take a U.S. Supreme Court ruling to overturn the Appeals Court. Moreover, Carey's civil trial was held in a Federal District Court and it would be a novel form of jurisprudence for a district court to overturn an appeals court. In addition one can go to the IRB Cases and click on the link which says "Click here for more information regarding individuals who have been barred from the Union and the restrictions on members' association with those individuals." One will find Mr. Carey's name on the list. If one is still not sure, a search can be performed by searching under "last name" and Mr. Carey's profile emerges.
In the scandal, Carey's political director was sentenced to 3 years in jail and several political aides paid fines and/or received probation: Carey Fundraiser, Blitz, fined $2K, Nash Finally Sentenced, Gets Off Easy, Davis, Ansara Sentenced; Pay $1,345,000 in Restitution. Giving Mr. Carey the benefit of the doubt, how all this money changed hands without his knowledge does violate his fiduciary responsibility as General President. How can he sign a check and not know what it is for? IMO, Carey dodged a bullet because if he was convicted, the scheme would have implicated people higher up the food chain. Next in line would have been the AFL-CIO's Trumka and from there it was into the Clinton administration, probably starting with Harold Ickes.
The health of the IBT General Treasury wasn't in the greatest of shape during this time frame either. Inserted below are the Net Assets for the IBT General Treasury which were provided from the DOL's Form LM-2 filings:
Form LM-2 1996 filing, line 38 -
Net Assets Start of Reporting Period (01/01/96) $30,353,244.00
End of Reporting Period (12/31/96) $16,944,101.00
Form LM-2 1997 filing, line 38 -
Net Assets Start of Reporting Period (01/01/97) $16,944,101.00
End of Reporting Period (12/31/97) $3.883,391.00
Form LM-2 1998 filing, line 38 -
Net Assets Start of Reporting Period (01/01/98) $2,874,519.00
End of Reporting Period (12/31/98) $3,595,171.00
Form LM-2 1999 filing, line 38 -
Net Assets Start of Reporting Period (01/01/99) $3,595,171.00
End of Reporting Period (12/31/99) $15,019,397.00
In the scandal, Carey's political director was sentenced to 3 years in jail and several political aides paid fines and/or received probation: Carey Fundraiser, Blitz, fined $2K, Nash Finally Sentenced, Gets Off Easy, Davis, Ansara Sentenced; Pay $1,345,000 in Restitution. Giving Mr. Carey the benefit of the doubt, how all this money changed hands without his knowledge does violate his fiduciary responsibility as General President. How can he sign a check and not know what it is for? IMO, Carey dodged a bullet because if he was convicted, the scheme would have implicated people higher up the food chain. Next in line would have been the AFL-CIO's Trumka and from there it was into the Clinton administration, probably starting with Harold Ickes.
The health of the IBT General Treasury wasn't in the greatest of shape during this time frame either. Inserted below are the Net Assets for the IBT General Treasury which were provided from the DOL's Form LM-2 filings:
Form LM-2 1996 filing, line 38 -
Net Assets Start of Reporting Period (01/01/96) $30,353,244.00
End of Reporting Period (12/31/96) $16,944,101.00
Form LM-2 1997 filing, line 38 -
Net Assets Start of Reporting Period (01/01/97) $16,944,101.00
End of Reporting Period (12/31/97) $3.883,391.00
Form LM-2 1998 filing, line 38 -
Net Assets Start of Reporting Period (01/01/98) $2,874,519.00
End of Reporting Period (12/31/98) $3,595,171.00
Form LM-2 1999 filing, line 38 -
Net Assets Start of Reporting Period (01/01/99) $3,595,171.00
End of Reporting Period (12/31/99) $15,019,397.00
