Rules on fighting??

[sano]

But they didn't deserve to be ratted on by a brother.

Nobody should have to put up with violence in their workplace. In the name of brotherhood or anything else.

How far should this be taken? How about if someone is being sexually harassed? What about stealing?

My rights only extend to the point where they begin to trample on your rights.

 

[dirty moose]

Can i ask a question here, for the drivers.

A few months ago an old timer, 20 years or so decided to threaten me and push me around a little bit because he didn't like the way i covered his route and because i said something about him to the wrong person. We were going to lunch at burger king but it was only the 2 of us, no other drivers had gotten there yet. He approached me as i was walking to the burger king and got right in my face and started to threaten me, telling me i better not show up to lunch or he was going to kick my ass he kept on going and then laid his hands on me. I asked him not to touch me and he did it 2 other times.

Now hes in his 40's and im 24 i tried to ignore him and just go in and eat my lunch.
When i sit down he gets in my face again and then takes his can of half full soda and dumps it onto my lunch. At this point im shaking with anger but yet again i just left and call my on car sup.

My on car sup goes and asks him what happened and he admits getting in my face and "blocking" me from walking. My sups ask me what i wanted to do and i said let it be for a day and well see what happens.

The next 3 or 4 times i went to lunch with him and the rest of the drivers in the area he sated yelling at me again in public in front of all the drivers. After a while i just stopped showing up to lunch when he is around but i never went ahead with asking for any kind of discipline.

I feel like a punk even tho i know i did the right thing. What should i have done? And what should be done to him? How could this guy want to risk his job by fighting me in public on the clock in uniform? Every time i think about it i get extremely angry, even writing this post im shaking with anger. Is there something i should do even up to this date?

I don't want to see someone get canned over NOTHING but i don't wanna feel like im heading into work for a fight.

 

[over9five]

Zero tolerance, you lay a hand on a fellow coworker in a hostile way and they fight back your both gone.

UPSs "zero tolerance" policy is a crock. Totally depends who you are. Remember, workplace violence is not just physical violence, it is also the perception of violence and the threat of violence.

Several people I know once witnessed a center manager who wanted to go at it with a steward. He was restrained by the DM (the DM actually had to hold the center manager back by his belt). To ME, the center manager should have been fired on the spot.
I later asked the steward why he didn't demand that the center manager be fired for the "zero tolerance" policy. He simply smiled, and said "Because now we have past practice. We'll keep that one in our pocket and use it when we need it". That's a smart steward.

BUT....... Why didn't the DM fire the center manager? He was there. We have "zero tolerance".
I wonder if I (or anyone else) had called the phone number on that "zero tolerance" poster and complained, would anything have happened?

How 'bout a supervisor who yells at an employee? Now that employee feels threatened. Shouldn't the supervisor be fired? "Zero tolerance", remember!

This could go on and on. The basic questions that have to (but cannot) be answered would be:

1. What IS workplace violence?

2. And what IS zero tolerance?

To answer and define both completely would require many pages of text. That is why there can be no simple "zero tolerance" policy. It will always come down to "case by case".

 

[rocket man]

TO UPSTATE NYER SAY WHAT YOU HAve to say in stead of 15 posts. your still my hereo.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

TO UPSTATE NYER SAY WHAT YOU HAve to say in stead of 15 posts. your still my hereo.

I have had enough of your stupditiy--enjoy your place on my ignore list.

 

[drewed]

UPSs "zero tolerance" policy is a crock. Totally depends who you are. Remember, workplace violence is not just physical violence, it is also the perception of violence and the threat of violence.

Several people I know once witnessed a center manager who wanted to go at it with a steward. He was restrained by the DM (the DM actually had to hold the center manager back by his belt). To ME, the center manager should have been fired on the spot.
I later asked the steward why he didn't demand that the center manager be fired for the "zero tolerance" policy. He simply smiled, and said "Because now we have past practice. We'll keep that one in our pocket and use it when we need it". That's a smart steward.

BUT....... Why didn't the DM fire the center manager? He was there. We have "zero tolerance".
I wonder if I (or anyone else) had called the phone number on that "zero tolerance" poster and complained, would anything have happened?

How 'bout a supervisor who yells at an employee? Now that employee feels threatened. Shouldn't the supervisor be fired? "Zero tolerance", remember!

This could go on and on. The basic questions that have to (but cannot) be answered would be:

1. What IS workplace violence?

2. And what IS zero tolerance?

To answer and define both completely would require many pages of text. That is why there can be no simple "zero tolerance" policy. It will always come down to "case by case".

I was having a discussion the other day how UPS (or most large corps) equates to how the US gov't is set up. The fed (corprate) sets the basic policy and procedures, then it goes to the state gov't (regions) to further refine those procedures and practices and so forth down the line to cities (centers and hubs) where the enforcement is practiced but abiding by policies set out by the larger governing bodies. And just like most laws and the Constitution, its all intereptation, you can take 10 people and they can have ten different views on the constitution, just as you can take 10 CMS and they can have 10 different intereptations on a policy.

Is it right? no
but with a company this size its going to happen

 

[old levi's]

When I saw the title of this thread I quickly flashed back to this:

"Rules - in a knife fight? No rules!" Butch swiftly kicks him in his crotch with a perfectly-aimed blow. The uprising is quickly suppressed as Harvey crumples to his knees and grabs his groin. Butch mocks his opponent: "Well if there ain't gonna be any rules, let's get the fight started. Someone count 'one-two-three-go'." Sundance obliges, rapidly counting out the phrase. With his two hands locked together, Butch delivers a swinging blow to Harvey's jaw.

Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)

 

[BrownSuit]

As everybody else has said, Workplace Violence. They are gone. There will be no re-hire, there will be no back pay. They can go to the panel all they want, but it's not going anywhere fast.

Furthermore, if something comes up, UPS doesn't expect you to get beat on, but at the same time, the second you fight back, you're gone.

Best Practice, yell for help, while putting something (boxes, Package Car, Belt) between the two of you. Ensure that your hands are open, that you aren't making a fist and keep yelling and saying "calm down".

Don't push, shove, hit, lay a fist on the other person. Keep your hands outward towards the other person and keep yelling for help. It's not worth your job. You are not going to get it back. You are not going to get Unemployment.

As far as "ratting people out" if you come across a situation where two people are fighting, break it up and get management involved. This is not High School. It needs to be dealt with appropriately. There is no Brown Line, as was pointed out this isn't a gang. You aren't trying to get promoted or forget your "brothers or sisters" you are protecting the job site and this needs to be dealt with.

Sadly Zero Tolerance isn't always that, but none of us are perfect either. If somebody here is perfect and without fault, keep challenging instances where it hasn't been addressed fairly, otherwise, keep quiet. Let him who is perfect throw the first stone.

Dirty Moose - Even though you are not going to lunch with these people any more, in my mind it needs to be dealt with. You should pursue it with your OCS and the driver involved needs to be dealt with appropriately. It's not a matter of you costing him his job, HE COST HIMSELF his job. There are a number of people lined up waiting for the job. If he is acting like that in public towards a co-worker, he does not need to be working for UPS. If he displays that behavior towards you, what's happening in front of the customer?

Folks, I've come across instances where drivers have threatened to kill customer's dogs, kicked packages across yards or docks in disgust of the customer, gotten in the customer's face and gotten physical with customers, cursed them out, told them they hope their business goes to a bad place, the list goes on.

You go back and look at what happened in the past and in a lot of these instances somebody comes up and says "Ohh yeah, they were fighting with another driver, but we never reported it" or "Yeah, he kept threatening people at work, but I didn't want to say it". What happens in the Brown Package Car, doesn't stay in the Brown Package Car if you know what I mean. It is going to spill over in front of the customer.

 

[hyena]

Both would have had their jobs back, if at all removed, if the 3rd party here the thread author, hadn't been a puss and reported it to management. I hate to say that, too, but there comes a time where maybe the 3rd party should lose his job as well for ratting out other union brothers and sisters?

Often times fights break out, they're resolved or broken up, then both parties say they were wrestling or whatever excuse.

I doubt it was necessary to call a full-time sup, and that is the reason both were fired and probably now have no discourse. Obviously the right thing to do is try to get in between them and get others involved to break up the unnecessary violence.

Was it worth both of their jobs? I doubt it. Did they deserve to lose their jobs? Yes. Do they deserve them back? Who knows. But they didn't deserve to be ratted on by a brother.

I like that!

 

[rod]

Now if it was 2 hot chicks fighting-----------oooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhh------------who don't like a hot chick fight

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

I love it, people bring up sexual harrassment and other issues when it comes to a simple disagreement or frustration that turned physical.

Completely different.

This doesn't seem like a MAJOR fight that went down. Obviously anything major with injuries I don't suggest brushing it under the rug.

The small tiff was between two employees and although yes, I agree it does cause tenion and is absolutely wrong and unecessary, and I am not pro-violence!, there should not be a manager or supervisor bothered for it.

Whomever said "this isn't high school", Yes exactly, it isn't like 10 kids are going to jump in on the kid no one likes. Unless it's Baba Gounj j/k

If you see a fight or near fight, get in between the people and get others to help you. after it settles down everyone will forget about it and life will go on.....

If it was particularly extreme, or THAT unnerving, surely report it. Obviously if somenoe is injured get them some help and report it. But if its just some silly pushing match from words exchanged or even a few swings, break it up and move on with your lives.

 

[govols019]

Can i ask a question here, for the drivers.

A few months ago an old timer, 20 years or so decided to threaten me and push me around a little bit because he didn't like the way i covered his route and because i said something about him to the wrong person. We were going to lunch at burger king but it was only the 2 of us, no other drivers had gotten there yet. He approached me as i was walking to the burger king and got right in my face and started to threaten me, telling me i better not show up to lunch or he was going to kick my ass he kept on going and then laid his hands on me. I asked him not to touch me and he did it 2 other times.

Now hes in his 40's and im 24 i tried to ignore him and just go in and eat my lunch.
When i sit down he gets in my face again and then takes his can of half full soda and dumps it onto my lunch. At this point im shaking with anger but yet again i just left and call my on car sup.

My on car sup goes and asks him what happened and he admits getting in my face and "blocking" me from walking. My sups ask me what i wanted to do and i said let it be for a day and well see what happens.

The next 3 or 4 times i went to lunch with him and the rest of the drivers in the area he sated yelling at me again in public in front of all the drivers. After a while i just stopped showing up to lunch when he is around but i never went ahead with asking for any kind of discipline.

I feel like a punk even tho i know i did the right thing. What should i have done? And what should be done to him? How could this guy want to risk his job by fighting me in public on the clock in uniform? Every time i think about it i get extremely angry, even writing this post im shaking with anger. Is there something i should do even up to this date?

I don't want to see someone get canned over NOTHING but i don't wanna feel like im heading into work for a fight.

You're kidding, right? He poured a drink on your food and you walked away? You are a better man than I am. Kudos.

He should be fired and he owns all the blame.

 

[Cementups]

If someone with higher seniority than me wants to start something with me I encourage it. take a swing so I can move up in seniority. I'll say " thanks" as you're working out the door.

 

[dirty moose]

You're kidding, right? He poured a drink on your food and you walked away? You are a better man than I am. Kudos.

He should be fired and he owns all the blame.

I tell you i have no idea why or how i held back.
But it wont ever happen again, ill make sure of that.
Next time im in that town i will be going to lunch.

 

[sx2700]

At a business I used to deliver to, there was a woman who would spread rumours and tell lies about her co-workers. Well, she told a whopper about one guy that worked there. They met to discuss it with their boss. During the discussion, he raised his voice making her cry.
He was fired for workplace violence.

A woman that spreads rumors and tells lies? Wow....that's a rare one.

 

[broncobros1]

I think you could make a solid case at panel for defending yourself when someone attacked you. You can't fire someone for defending himself. (Well, you can, but that person will get their job back).

<I even smell backpay!>

So you admit that it is breaking the rules, and still the typical teamster emerges....

 

[over9five]

So you admit that it is breaking the rules, and still the typical teamster emerges....

Where do you see that?? The only rule that is being broken is the wrongful termination by UPS. Everyone has the right to defend themselves.

Thankfully, we have a union that will get a job back if UPS was foolish enough to fire someone for defending themselves.

And, yes, when you return from the wrongful firing, I would expect full backpay.

 

[BigBrownSanta]

So you admit that it is breaking the rules, and still the typical teamster emerges....

I think someone has a reading comprehension problem.

Self defense is not breaking the rules.

 

[steeltoe]

Read Article 52. "unprovoked physical violence".

 

[dragracer66]

Friday night 2 of the guys on my belt decided to risk there top wage, high senoirity jobs with an all out brawl. I was standing 20 feet away breaking a jam when they went at it and did not see the first punch but quickly jumped in and stopped them and called my full time sup. They were both fired. The full time sup told me that "it didnt matter who punched who they both swung at each other so they both get canned. If someone ever swings at you dont fight back because you will be fired. " That makes zero sense to me. I am not a fighter at all and have never actually been in a fight. But I played football in school and continune to play soccer and at 6ft 220 lbs dont plan on being anyones punching bag. Is this actually the rule or what? How can you think anyone is just going to take a few punches in the face?

Somebody needs to give you a few punches to the face. You brake up a fight then you continue on like nothing happened. You don't get your sup you **************!! You might as well turn in your sup letter your a marked man now RAT!!!!!!!