Rules on fighting??

dirty moose

Well-Known Member
Just a quick up date;

I saw this guy today for the 1st time in about a month because of our vacations and whatnot.

Its 6:40 and im walking to the clerk with 2 NI3 packages and were staring at each other and he says; "well I see your still a dick"

This is where im drawing the line, tommorow i will be talking with my steward, BA and management team.

A man can only take so much before he snaps and the next time he says something im going to snap.
 

drewed

Shankman
Yea.... not good at all
you probably atleast given your sup a heads up when it all started, just a forethought next time something like this arises
 

dirty moose

Well-Known Member
My on car sup goes and asks him what happened and he admits getting in my face and "blocking" me from walking. My sups ask me what i wanted to do and i said let it be for a day and well see what happens.

The next 3 or 4 times i went to lunch with him and the rest of the drivers in the area he sated yelling at me again in public in front of all the drivers. After a while i just stopped showing up to lunch when he is around but i never went ahead with asking for any kind of discipline.
 

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
an my question to management still goes unanswered

brown, i agree 100% with your post, but i have a question for you or other managers.

how is it in mooses case that management has the admission of the driver, but yet makes moose out to be the bad guy by making him decide what happens next??????? what the heck is management thinking? if moose does nothing, then they are off the hook? or if he says take action, then a case could be made that moose "was responsible" for the driver getting fired.

the whole idea of the rules ups has to protect employees form others is just that. instead, you put him in harms way even further, regardless.

again, management lacks the balls to do what is right, and the resonsibility rests on the victim, again.

so why is this now getting out of hand? because of a serious lack of management leadership skills.

d
 

BrownSuit

Well-Known Member
brown, i agree 100% with your post, but i have a question for you or other managers.

how is it in mooses case that management has the admission of the driver, but yet makes moose out to be the bad guy by making him decide what happens next??????? what the heck is management thinking? if moose does nothing, then they are off the hook? or if he says take action, then a case could be made that moose "was responsible" for the driver getting fired.

the whole idea of the rules ups has to protect employees form others is just that. instead, you put him in harms way even further, regardless.

again, management lacks the balls to do what is right, and the resonsibility rests on the victim, again.


I understand the frustration. When a cop shows up to a Domestic Violence house, can tell the woman was being beaten on, gets her to admit it, but she won't press charges what happens? Nothing.

The person who is the victim of the workplace violence or harassment, which as we've already established is not solely physical in nature, must come forward and formally report it. The only thing left was telling the OCS and center manager, "Yes, I want something done about it". I'm guessing as soon as that happens the driver will be suspended without pay for a period of time.

For others, As far as this whole brother against brother garbage, this isn't the civil war. You are under obligation to report this stuff to management for a reason. Read the last two paragraphs of my last post. The guy who is fighting on company property with co-workers likely has other issues going on. It's like the guy who kills somebody, he doesn't start out one day and say "I'm going to go kill somebody".

People don't start out one day threatening the lives of customers, their well being, or being physical with them.

Ask your BA if somebody fighting deserves to keep their job afterwards. They will likely tell you no. I can't speak for all of the NMA (It's long folks) but I would not be surprised if there was a provision in there about fighting.

Your not a Rat or a Scab or any other word if you report a fight. Chances are in most of these cases if they happened on the sidewalk outside the building, the cops would be there arresting people for assault.

These days kids who fight in school get ticketed and have to show up in court. There is a reason we have police officers in schools.

Why does this have to be about protecting Union Jobs? In my mind, your protecting the job by reporting the fight. Your ensuring that the Union stays strong with highly qualified and skilled workers.

This is not Monday-Night Fight Club. We are here to get packages from Point A to Point B.

If people thought they could fight in the process, don't you think there would be a whole new breed of employee? Pay, Benefits, the whole lot could easily be reduced. People are complaining that the NMA wasn't enough, imagine if people weren't fired on the spot for fighting. The company could get by paying folks a whole lot less and have folks who weren't nearly as intelligent.

A college degree is not a requirement to drive, but I guarantee you a NASA Scientist would have trouble with a day on a route. The company loses money invested in the worker as well, you aren't monkeys. You can't just replace somebody. Look at all the threads about bad pre-loaders who have just started.

At the same time the company is maintaining a safe work environment, not to even begin to mention the liability. I'm positive that a safe work environment is in the NMA.

If fighting wasn't strictly enforced, I guarantee you there would be metal detectors in centers 20 years from now. I get into a fight and I lose, what's to keep me from coming back the next day with a knife or gun?

Let's think about this people, you all are extremely intelligent. I'll get down from my soap box now . . .
 

drewed

Shankman
If fighting wasn't strictly enforced, I guarantee you there would be metal detectors in centers 20 years from now. I get into a fight and I lose, what's to keep me from coming back the next day with a knife or gun?

hell whats to stop them from grabbing a box cutter and getting it done there? or hopping into a pc and running you down? yes these are extreme cases but if we followed this vigilante justice it would quickly lead to similar situations.

heres the point we're all here to make money and go home safe, we're all adults so act like it yea i may not like johnny he maybe be a lazy POS but you know his work will speak for him and his :censored2::censored2::censored2::censored2:ty atittude will too, im not gonna knock his block off bc hes talking trash bc he'll get his some point down the road
 

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
When a cop shows up to a Domestic Violence house, can tell the woman was being beaten on, gets her to admit it, but she won't press charges what happens? Nothing.

dont get off just yet

first off, not only does the cop see what went on, the perp admits to the wrong doing. and the cop still does nothing?

actually in your example, the guy goes to jail automatically, regardless of the victim pressing charges or not.

bottom line is that the other driver admitted to the on the job harrassment, and management chose to pass the buck.

and when moose gets into an altercation with that driver, then what will you do? fire them both? or if the moose gets injured, how will that inaction look to a jury?

d
 

drewed

Shankman
dont get off just yet

first off, not only does the cop see what went on, the perp admits to the wrong doing. and the cop still does nothing?

actually in your example, the guy goes to jail automatically, regardless of the victim pressing charges or not.

d

danny in his scenario he said SHE admitted he beat her, if that were the case he probably wouldnt go to jail for it

but you are correct with yours if he admitted it, hed atleast go to jail to cool down an post bail in a couple hours
 

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
in most states anymore, if she says you were abusive, and there is any sign the guy goes to jail, even if she protests.

in mooses case, the perp admitted wrong doing. what else is ups waiting for, a body?

but i guess in this case, zero really does not mean zero?

d
 

toonertoo

Most Awesome Dog
Staff member
I understand the frustration. When a cop shows up to a Domestic Violence house, can tell the woman was being beaten on, gets her to admit it, but she won't press charges what happens? Nothing.
In Ohio, on domestic violence, somebody goes to jail. The abused party does not have to press charges, the state will.
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
I have handled two cases that come to mind. One was a ptimer that got popped in his eye and received stitches while the other guy that through the first punch broke his hand. The thrower of the first punch lost his job while the receiver of the original punch went back to work.

Another is a ptimer that actually punched a security guard after being provoked and puched by the guard. He is back to work because of self defense. He did not receive ant back pay and that was his decision to make.
 

dilligaf

IN VINO VERITAS
Daniel, you are corect when you say zero doesn't mean zero. Case in point..... last year I reported 3 instances of harrassment by the same person. Nothing was done about it. This same person has had to go to anger management because of a proven altercation with a supervisor previous to my complaints. The company swept it under the carpet. It became apparent that the company was not going to protect me so I went outside the box to protect myself. I got a restraining order.


The company doesn't give a :censored2::censored2::censored2::censored2: about zero tolerance. The only thing they care about is the money. They sure will think twice when someone gets hurt and sues the :censored2::censored2::censored2::censored2: out of them when they fail to uphold policies and laws.

And why is it that it takes someone getting hurt to shed some light on a situation that is as serious as this. Going 'postal' isn't a joke, there is a reason why that term was coined.
 
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dilligaf

IN VINO VERITAS
........ Bottom line I guess is if I saw a fight I would have broke it up and if no sups saw it I would have delt with both guy's after the shift outside. I'm not saying them fighting was the smartest thing they could have done but notifing management would have not been an option for me.....
As a steward you have the capacity of dealing with the 2 outside and after the shift. Not everyone has that capacity or even that right. Maybe the next (god forbid) that someone is in this situation that person will think to break up the fight and then go talk to the steward. I understand your position about not telling management but that is not black and white.
 
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