whiskey
Well-Known Member
Yes, take it, and get rid of all the lap belts left in the building.
Safety Co-Chair offer.
- Thread starter stevetheupsguy
- Start date
Dustyroads
Well-Known Member
STUG, I would say, in my opinion, that it all depends on what your level of tolerance for frustration is. I've known guys who took the job and were very frustrated that their concerns weren't addressed unless they happened to be related to the flavor of the month. The two guys I knew left the committee, frustrated, cynical and angry. The guy we have now just loves it. Honestly, he would be a good candidate for management, if we didn't have so many extra management people right now.
Spiderman
Package Slinger
I think STUG has already hung up on the safety committee. I Believe he's talking about the person who took over after him. It's funny how the beginning of the year starts the new "safety quest". Must remember, must remember, and then within a month that flavor changes. Maybe if they kept this up year round, we'd actually memorize this stuff once and for all. Remember to do a great job during the audit, so your sup can get the much needed bonus points he/she needs so that they can send away for all the neat stuff in the back of the comic book.
tieguy
Banned
thats what I am trying to tell you sober that is exactly what you're safety committe is doing is fixing the biggest problems. you're single issue with three point harnesses is not the biggest problem in your operation.
Unless you're telling me you have had a lot of people go through windshields in your operation?
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
The "safety committee" isnt doing jack sh&t.
In the last 10 years there have been 3 head-on collisions in my building, one of which resulted in a fatality.
All 3 involved motorists that crossed over the center line and hit us head on. All 3 were subsequently deemed unavoidable.
The one with a fatality was particularly gruesome. The only reason our driver survived was because the P-5 he normally drove was in the shop and he was in a P-7 with a shoulder belt. The shoulder belt is what saved his life, not a 10 pt commentary or a Keter audit.
And its not just about seatbelts. I know several old time drivers, some who were forced into early retirement, who suffer from chronic arthritis, tendonitis and bursitis in their shoulders and wrists from years of fighting non-power steering vehicles.
They didnt need a commentary or a word game. They needed proper equipment for the job, and they didnt get it.
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tieguy
Banned
All interesting information but does not answer my response to your post. If anything it again reinforrces that you are a single issue judge of the safety committee.
I don't disagree with your equipment points but its an issue seperate from what the safety committee is supposed to be doing.
I went through the days when we had safety meetings with a bunch of one issue attendees like you. Nothing got done because everyone wanted to run off in different directions chasing their one issue.
Is your safety committee doing the analysis of accident and injuries trends and then coming up with specific activities directed towards those types of accidents and injuries?
I personally don't think you know the answer to the question because you have been too busy standing on the outside lobbing grenades within.
Dustyroads
Well-Known Member
Man, this is right on target. One is too many. No UPS package cars have a driver's airbag. Airbags save lives. It's a fact. But, they add to the cost of a package car. All of the package cars have metal dash boards. They are deadly in crashes. They are cheaper than a padded dash. How many news stories did we see last year with a UPS package car driver dying in a head on accident. The old, "well, the airbag wouldn't have saved them" is just bunk. How would we know, since we have none. ONE is too many.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
What the Safety committee is supposed to be doing... is to help create and maintain a safe work enviorment, NOT simply to help the company pass a Keter audit.
The foundation of a safe day begins with a realistic workload, dispatched from a proper facility, in a safe and ergonomically suitable vehicle. The proper role of a Safety Committee is to make sure the company is living up to its responsibilities in this area.
The reality is that we dont have an authentic Safety Committee. What we have....is a Keter Audit Compliance Committee.
I dont have a problem with the idea of a Keter Audit Compliance Commitee. Its a great idea. Just dont try to pass it off as an actual Safety Committee.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
Nothing gets done now because the whole damn committee is chasing "one issue"....Keter audit compliance.
Can we discuss 3 point belts? NO. Can we discuss power steering? NO. Can we discuss egress issues in an overcrowded and poorly designed facility? NO. Can we discuss unfair time allowances, excessive overtime, fatigue mats, lack of ventilation, or poor ergonomics? NO NO NO NO NO.
It is dishonest to call it a "safety committee" if it wont discuss or act on legitimate safety issues.
Integrity
Binge Poster
Dear soberups,
I believe in your seat belt concern. I would like to join your quest. I am starting a discussion thread for the social group employees4safetyintegrity in hopes of having some serious discussion and exchange of ideas about this issue. Only serious posters will be welcome, insults and personal attacks and one line jokesters will not be permitted. It is my hope that through this discussion and exchange of ideas an employee concern can be generated that I will present to the appropriate level of UPS management. If you or anyone else would like to participate in this discussion please private message me.
Sincerely,
I
dannyboy
From the promised LAND
tie
on the issue with the three point harness, why do they install them on all new vehicles? is it because someone thought it a good idea one day, and figured out how to add another $2 to the cost of the package car? dont think so. it was a safety move, pure and simple. and this one issue has been danced around at ups for too many years not to have had it addressed both by ups, and the union.
the argument you use is like saying that we will wait until somone gets their hands and feet caught in a conveyor belt before we need to look at it as an issue. that is not the case, and you damn well know it. in the case of conveyors, ups waited until how many dozens if not hundreds of employees were killed and maimed before they actually did something about it. and then, they only did the "right thing" because osha forced them to do it.
as part of their function, the safety committee is charged with identification of possible safety issues that can cause death or bodily injury. this is one of those issues that very well can do both. so it is a very valid point. please note, this is preventive safety work. you see, because of our work in safety, we will actually prevent that injury to the brain, or death. and that is much better than going back after the fact and saying well maybe if we retrofitted.........
sober, dont back off. never.
as far as being on the committee, ive said it before, and i will repeat it again.
the safety committee at your building is what you make of it.
if all you want to do is sit on the outside while others try to work on issues, then you get what you get.
if you let your management team roll all over the committee, with no say from the hourly, then you deserve what you get.
there is a direct correlation between serious employee activity and envolvement, and the results you will see in your building.
it is a shame more managers dont understand that.
one last note, as to the verbage that drivers are asked to spout, when management takes pcm training sessions seriously, instead of the "we've got 6 minutes to take the test, here are the answers" that we all see, then we will take the reciting in front of ketter seriously as well.
d
on the issue with the three point harness, why do they install them on all new vehicles? is it because someone thought it a good idea one day, and figured out how to add another $2 to the cost of the package car? dont think so. it was a safety move, pure and simple. and this one issue has been danced around at ups for too many years not to have had it addressed both by ups, and the union.
the argument you use is like saying that we will wait until somone gets their hands and feet caught in a conveyor belt before we need to look at it as an issue. that is not the case, and you damn well know it. in the case of conveyors, ups waited until how many dozens if not hundreds of employees were killed and maimed before they actually did something about it. and then, they only did the "right thing" because osha forced them to do it.
as part of their function, the safety committee is charged with identification of possible safety issues that can cause death or bodily injury. this is one of those issues that very well can do both. so it is a very valid point. please note, this is preventive safety work. you see, because of our work in safety, we will actually prevent that injury to the brain, or death. and that is much better than going back after the fact and saying well maybe if we retrofitted.........
sober, dont back off. never.
as far as being on the committee, ive said it before, and i will repeat it again.
the safety committee at your building is what you make of it.
if all you want to do is sit on the outside while others try to work on issues, then you get what you get.
if you let your management team roll all over the committee, with no say from the hourly, then you deserve what you get.
there is a direct correlation between serious employee activity and envolvement, and the results you will see in your building.
it is a shame more managers dont understand that.
one last note, as to the verbage that drivers are asked to spout, when management takes pcm training sessions seriously, instead of the "we've got 6 minutes to take the test, here are the answers" that we all see, then we will take the reciting in front of ketter seriously as well.
d
whiskey
Well-Known Member
This is safety related, but off thread. Every year UPS takes out a full page ad in USA Today announcing their safest drivers and the safe miles they have accumulated. And every year, I hear from my customers how wonderful that is. And it is wonderful. But it's not true. Any one who has been kicking around as long as I have know personally several of those "safe" drivers have had avoidable accidents that were swept under the rug by center manager's. But here on BC, it's common knowledge. I just wish we would stop taking out that full page add and find another location for that money.
dannyboy
From the promised LAND
i think with the other cut backs, at least they still do that much.
as for the body of your thread, i believe that if ups were really interested in a level playing field, they would allow input from the safety committee on avoidable/unavoidable accidents. while not perfect, it would get rid of the center managers pet.
one more on the safety committee.
everyone would think it really foolish if i bitterly complained that my 401k was not worth anything, especially since i was not putting any money into it to invest.
why is the safety committee any different.
invest some time, invest some energy. you get paid for it, and you can make a difference!
d
as for the body of your thread, i believe that if ups were really interested in a level playing field, they would allow input from the safety committee on avoidable/unavoidable accidents. while not perfect, it would get rid of the center managers pet.
one more on the safety committee.
everyone would think it really foolish if i bitterly complained that my 401k was not worth anything, especially since i was not putting any money into it to invest.
why is the safety committee any different.
invest some time, invest some energy. you get paid for it, and you can make a difference!
d
tieguy
Banned
dannyboy
From the promised LAND
what do you get when you get to go to the drivers home to tell his wife and two children that daddy is not coming home, and it would not be a good idea for an open casket?
there are crimes of commission, and crimes of omission.
the reference to conveyors was to illustrate how slowly ups moves on an issue.
kinda like around here. guard rails dont get put up until someone gets killed. or several getting killed is even better, cause they will do it without hearings into the matter.
yeah, i know, there are issues we can deal with here and now that are causing injuries. but the whole reason for the safety committee is prevention, analyzing what has been is like worrying about the barn door after the sheep are already out, and damage done.
i do find it interesting that ford/gmc/what ever frame company ups gets the best deal on, and ups enjoy playing pass the potato. neither wants to do a damn thing because they are not forced to do the right thing by the government. think about that. ups being forced to do the right thing, and if they are not, they dont.
d
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
Many of the vehicles in question were designed from the factory to have 3 pt belts as an option. The mounting bracket on the door frame is there; UPS simply deleted this option in the interest of saving money. The business decision was made that the life of the driver was not worth the expense.
3 pt belts became legally required on all delivery vehicles in mid-1995. We have '95 model year P-1000's, 135xxx numbered....that only have lap belts. We also have 136xxx numbered trucks are identical in every way, they are built on the same assembly line in the same year with the same door frames and mounting brackets....only they have 3 pt belts because their build date happened after the law took effect. A 135xxx car with a lap belt could have a 3 pt belt retrofitted as a bolt-in option, with no modifications required.
What I find particularly sickening....is that UPS wont spend the money to remove the 2 pt belt and replace it with one that will actually save the drivers life, but they will spend $500 to remove the 2 pt belt and replace it with an identical one that has a Telematics sensor that will allow them to fire the driver for failing to wear it.
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tieguy
Banned
Danny thats a powerful argument that can be used in defense of chasing many different safety improvements. Unfortunately the system does not reward good intentions. It does however penalize me if I make a decision to modify equipment that results in someone either getting hurt or dying. Thats the sad fact of things.
Dustyroads
Well-Known Member
If you feel better about it, the double page ad in USA today was eliminated with the budget cuts along with the circle of honor banquet for drivers who had achieved 25 years of safe driving with the company. For every driver you assert that has had avoidable accidents "swept under the rug", there are ten that were charged with accidents that should have never been. Maybe you work in a kinder, gentler, more understanding enviornment than where I put my 31 years in. As for me, I am proud of the patch I wear on my shoulder, and I have great respect for all of the safe drivers in our building and at UPS.
