tieguy
Banned
it clearly contradicts the argument that gun control reduces violent crime. No comon about it.
Santa and the Second Amendment!!
- Thread starter The Other Side
- Start date
it clearly contradicts the argument that gun control reduces violent crime. No comon about it.
tieguy
Banned
what percentage of those killers would have committed their crimes if they knew everyone was required to be armed at all times.
brett636
Well-Known Member
Lol, anything that contradicts you is automatically "NRA propaganda". Those statements are not "propaganda", they are facts. Whether you like them or not allowing firearms in private hands is the best way to combat crime.
Despite what you feel about guns let me put this to you. Its a quiet Saturday afternoon with just you and your significant other at home. A knock comes at the door and your significant other goes to answer it. As the door is opened you hear the sounds of screaming and a struggle coming from your from entry way as two criminals on crack are invading your home. Now, you have the choice of two objects within your reach. A cell phone or a .45 caliber handgun. You can make the call from the cell phone, but the police are 10+ min. away from you, and the bad guys are less than 30 seconds from finding you. They are not there to hang out, they are there to take as much as they can from you including your life if they have to in order to get as many of your valuables as they can. With the handgun you can at least scare them away, but with the cell phone they can possibly take it from you before you get to make a call, or worse yet it not connect or the battery happens to be dead at the wrong moment in time. I personally would want the handgun nearby than the cell phone. Sometimes its just best to shoot first and ask questions later. I know you may say that this situation took place in a bad neighborhood, but even here in my hometown of Indianapolis most home invasions/burglaries take place in rich neighborhoods where people have stuff. Not the ghetto where the criminals know few people have much of value. So even if you lived in a "nice neighborhood" this is a very possible situation.
Finally, let me leave you with this. In the situation which began this thread you had one crazy man with a gun, and 9 unarmed people. Had one of those 9 had a handgun this situation would have been turned around as they would be hauling the dead body of the crazy man from the house instead of 9 charred bodies from a the smoking remnants of what used to be a house. Since the reality is weapons will be available either through legal or illegal means, its best to have the majority of those weapons in the hands of law abiding citizens than in the hands of crazy people who commit crimes with them. In the end the good guys need to be able to protect themselves, and even the Supreme Court has stated that the police have no responsibility to protect you in a dangerous situation. You are ultimatly responsible for your own well being.
DownsizedUPS'er
missing my UPS family
i agree- there was a 91 year old man in the Orlando Florida area and his wife whose house was broken in to, while they were there. they held a gun on the old mans wifes hear. they were demanding money and such. this 91 year old had a gun and was able to get to it and shot at the two men. they ran off with nothing but the skid marks in the undies. bravo to that old man. he said he got the un in the 1960's, and has never had to fire it before now. it said his wife is worth more to him then all the money in the world. this guy is a hero.
ol'browneye
Well-Known Member
Hey tos, right back at ya!
After hearing several bumps in the night, Claire Storms woke her husband, NRA Life member Dave Storms. He armed himself with a handgun and approached the noise. A 16-year-old wearing a bandana over his face was in the bathroom. Police said the teen had forcefully entered a window and was stealing money from Dave’s wallet. “Just his eyes were showing,” Storms recalled. “I put the gun on him real quick and I said, ‘Back up and sit down on the pot’.” The teen sat down and waited for police to arrive, all the while asking to leave and begging not to be shot. Storms said some in the community feared he’d be charged with a crime for defending himself, but he knew he was within his rights. “If it was Washington, D.C., I would be in trouble,” Storms said, adding that his fellow citizens “better vote for people who believe in the Second Amendment and our right to bear arms.” (Presque Isle County Advance, Rogers City, MI, 08/28/08)
NRA member David Johnson was returning home from work when he saw something suspicious—the door to his neighbor’s recently vacated home was propped open. He found that his front door, too, was ajar, with a bicycle in the driveway and his dog running loose. Fearing a prowler was in the area, Johnson ran upstairs to get his shotgun. According to police, Johnson found a man ransacking his bedroom. He quickly pointed his shotgun at the intruder and ordered him to the floor. Responding officers arrested the intruder, who was carrying a stolen gun and has a lengthy criminal record. “[The intruder is a] poster boy for Project Exile!” Johnson wrote in a letter to the NRA. (Tidewater News, Franklin, VA, 08/13/08)
According to police, several people were trying to pry open the front door to a residence and, with his pregnant wife and two children in a back bedroom, the homeowner had just seconds to react. Noting that at least one of the suspects was armed, the homeowner grabbed his shotgun. When the door began to open, the home-owner stuck the barrel of his shotgun into the opening and fired. One suspect fell dead while his accomplices ran from the scene. “[The deceased] was wearing a full beanie and gloves,” said a neighbor. “Those guys came to kill.” (The Sacramento Bee, Sacramento, CA, 09/10/08)
His barking dog awakened a Baptist minister early one morning. Deciding to investigate, he grabbed his .454 Casull revolver and slid open the front door. What he found was quite alarming—a man high on narcotics was holding a brick in the air, pounding on the side of the house and shouting. The minister retreated inside, but the crazed man forced his way through the door. Fearing for his safety, the minister pointed his big-bore revolver at the suspect, ordered him to the floor and held him for police. A responding deputy had to use a Taser on the suspect before taking him into custody. (Troup County News, LaGrange, GA, 08/15/08)
Joshua Eastman was loading groceries into his vehicle in a store parking lot when a man wearing a bandana and carrying a gun approached. Police said the man announced a robbery. Eastman tried to stall him, hoping onlookers would notice and call police, but the robber grew impatient and started shooting. Eastman wasn’t struck by the gunfire, but shattered glass ripped through his legs. That’s when Eastman, a concealed-carry permit holder, drew his handgun and opened fire on the assailant, wounding him. Eastman fled to safety inside the store. Police found the suspect hiding nearby. (The Morning Call, Allentown, PA, 08/28/08)
"It’s kind of a blur, ” recalls Robert Smotherman of his life’s most terrifying moment. As he pulled into his driveway, two men wearing ski masks and carrying rifles ran around the corner and demanded his valuables. “I had a gun on me,” recalls Smotherman, a concealed-carry permit holder. “[They] hesitated, and I took the opportunity.” Police said Smotherman fired eight shots from his .45-caliber pistol, striking at least one of the suspects several times and causing both to flee. “I just took my gut reaction and went with my first instinct,” he explained. The wounded suspect was apprehended; his accomplice is being sought. (Bradenton Herald, Bradenton, FL, 09/14/08)
After hearing several bumps in the night, Claire Storms woke her husband, NRA Life member Dave Storms. He armed himself with a handgun and approached the noise. A 16-year-old wearing a bandana over his face was in the bathroom. Police said the teen had forcefully entered a window and was stealing money from Dave’s wallet. “Just his eyes were showing,” Storms recalled. “I put the gun on him real quick and I said, ‘Back up and sit down on the pot’.” The teen sat down and waited for police to arrive, all the while asking to leave and begging not to be shot. Storms said some in the community feared he’d be charged with a crime for defending himself, but he knew he was within his rights. “If it was Washington, D.C., I would be in trouble,” Storms said, adding that his fellow citizens “better vote for people who believe in the Second Amendment and our right to bear arms.” (Presque Isle County Advance, Rogers City, MI, 08/28/08)
NRA member David Johnson was returning home from work when he saw something suspicious—the door to his neighbor’s recently vacated home was propped open. He found that his front door, too, was ajar, with a bicycle in the driveway and his dog running loose. Fearing a prowler was in the area, Johnson ran upstairs to get his shotgun. According to police, Johnson found a man ransacking his bedroom. He quickly pointed his shotgun at the intruder and ordered him to the floor. Responding officers arrested the intruder, who was carrying a stolen gun and has a lengthy criminal record. “[The intruder is a] poster boy for Project Exile!” Johnson wrote in a letter to the NRA. (Tidewater News, Franklin, VA, 08/13/08)
According to police, several people were trying to pry open the front door to a residence and, with his pregnant wife and two children in a back bedroom, the homeowner had just seconds to react. Noting that at least one of the suspects was armed, the homeowner grabbed his shotgun. When the door began to open, the home-owner stuck the barrel of his shotgun into the opening and fired. One suspect fell dead while his accomplices ran from the scene. “[The deceased] was wearing a full beanie and gloves,” said a neighbor. “Those guys came to kill.” (The Sacramento Bee, Sacramento, CA, 09/10/08)
His barking dog awakened a Baptist minister early one morning. Deciding to investigate, he grabbed his .454 Casull revolver and slid open the front door. What he found was quite alarming—a man high on narcotics was holding a brick in the air, pounding on the side of the house and shouting. The minister retreated inside, but the crazed man forced his way through the door. Fearing for his safety, the minister pointed his big-bore revolver at the suspect, ordered him to the floor and held him for police. A responding deputy had to use a Taser on the suspect before taking him into custody. (Troup County News, LaGrange, GA, 08/15/08)
Joshua Eastman was loading groceries into his vehicle in a store parking lot when a man wearing a bandana and carrying a gun approached. Police said the man announced a robbery. Eastman tried to stall him, hoping onlookers would notice and call police, but the robber grew impatient and started shooting. Eastman wasn’t struck by the gunfire, but shattered glass ripped through his legs. That’s when Eastman, a concealed-carry permit holder, drew his handgun and opened fire on the assailant, wounding him. Eastman fled to safety inside the store. Police found the suspect hiding nearby. (The Morning Call, Allentown, PA, 08/28/08)
"It’s kind of a blur, ” recalls Robert Smotherman of his life’s most terrifying moment. As he pulled into his driveway, two men wearing ski masks and carrying rifles ran around the corner and demanded his valuables. “I had a gun on me,” recalls Smotherman, a concealed-carry permit holder. “[They] hesitated, and I took the opportunity.” Police said Smotherman fired eight shots from his .45-caliber pistol, striking at least one of the suspects several times and causing both to flee. “I just took my gut reaction and went with my first instinct,” he explained. The wounded suspect was apprehended; his accomplice is being sought. (Bradenton Herald, Bradenton, FL, 09/14/08)
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
This is the flip side of what can happen when a homeowner with a gun tries to defend himself:
In the early morning of June 9, 2002, former Clinton Community College student Andrew Leroux, 21, intoxicated after an evening of partying, climbed the porch of a William Street home intending to enter the residence and join a party he thought was in full swing there. He'd made a fatal mistake: the home was occupied, not by party-goers, but by the family of Lawrence Crouthers, 68, who tried to fend off Leroux, whom he presumed to be a burglar. Crouthers shot Leroux on the porch, and the young man died of the injuries. Then-District Attorney Richard Cantwell had gained a grand-jury indictment for second-degree murder but, reasoning that the evidence supported only that charge, sought no other. The grand jury didn't indict, and Cantwell was criticized for not presenting a case for lesser offenses. County Judge Kevin Ryan publicly rebuked him and ordered him to bring the lower charges for consideration. Cantwell refused, arguing that Ryan was exceeding his legal authority with the order. A state court agreed. That case was undoubtedly a factor in Cantwell's defeat for re-election by Andrew Wylie, who empaneled a grand jury to consider charges of criminally negligent homicide and manslaughter. That jury indicts Crouthers on criminally negligent homicide. Crouthers will answer the charge in February. Now living in Connecticut after a cacophonous outcry over the original outcome, he is allowed to go free on $2,000 bail.
To update the story:
Lawrence Crouthers smiled and joyously hugged his attorney Friday afternoon when a jury cleared him of criminally negligent homicide in the 2002 shooting death of Andrew Leroux.
In the early morning of June 9, 2002, former Clinton Community College student Andrew Leroux, 21, intoxicated after an evening of partying, climbed the porch of a William Street home intending to enter the residence and join a party he thought was in full swing there. He'd made a fatal mistake: the home was occupied, not by party-goers, but by the family of Lawrence Crouthers, 68, who tried to fend off Leroux, whom he presumed to be a burglar. Crouthers shot Leroux on the porch, and the young man died of the injuries. Then-District Attorney Richard Cantwell had gained a grand-jury indictment for second-degree murder but, reasoning that the evidence supported only that charge, sought no other. The grand jury didn't indict, and Cantwell was criticized for not presenting a case for lesser offenses. County Judge Kevin Ryan publicly rebuked him and ordered him to bring the lower charges for consideration. Cantwell refused, arguing that Ryan was exceeding his legal authority with the order. A state court agreed. That case was undoubtedly a factor in Cantwell's defeat for re-election by Andrew Wylie, who empaneled a grand jury to consider charges of criminally negligent homicide and manslaughter. That jury indicts Crouthers on criminally negligent homicide. Crouthers will answer the charge in February. Now living in Connecticut after a cacophonous outcry over the original outcome, he is allowed to go free on $2,000 bail.
To update the story:
Lawrence Crouthers smiled and joyously hugged his attorney Friday afternoon when a jury cleared him of criminally negligent homicide in the 2002 shooting death of Andrew Leroux.
av8torntn
Well-Known Member
Does this mean we can count this as another win for the good guys?
av8torntn
Well-Known Member
By Andrea Lorenz | Sunday, December 28, 2008, 10:29 AM
A Milam County man was shot and killed early Sunday morning in what the sheriff’s office said was a home invasion.
Authorities say Edward Sexton III, 34, had broken into a home and was shot and killed at about 2 a.m. Sunday.
Sexton was pronounced dead at the residence on County Road 218 in Cameron, a town in Milam County northeast of Austin, according to a release from Milam County Sheriff David Greene, which was read over the phone by a dispatcher for the sheriff’s office.
No arrests have been made. An autopsy has been ordered, and the incident is still under investigation.
A Milam County man was shot and killed early Sunday morning in what the sheriff’s office said was a home invasion.
Authorities say Edward Sexton III, 34, had broken into a home and was shot and killed at about 2 a.m. Sunday.
Sexton was pronounced dead at the residence on County Road 218 in Cameron, a town in Milam County northeast of Austin, according to a release from Milam County Sheriff David Greene, which was read over the phone by a dispatcher for the sheriff’s office.
No arrests have been made. An autopsy has been ordered, and the incident is still under investigation.
DS
Fenderbender
Over9 and I have talked about this before and have different opinions on the subject.I'm sure once he's back online he will be posting on this thread.In Canada we have plenty of guns even though there are strict limits to owning firearms.Most gun related homicides are from illegally obtained guns from gun shops or gun owner breakins.A few are smuggled
in from the USA.
The 2nd amendment was passed way back when (1909?),indeed there was reason to have the general public armed as a militia to keep the peace.
As Americans you have every right to own a gun,but I cant help thinking that the only reason you so opinionated is because its the way you were brought up,and we are never going to be able to change that.
I respect America and like most Canadians think of you both as an ally and a friend,but I question the integrity of an archaic law that allows guys like Santa or any other maroon a licence to kill.
I may take some flack for this,but its only my opinion.
in from the USA.
The 2nd amendment was passed way back when (1909?),indeed there was reason to have the general public armed as a militia to keep the peace.
As Americans you have every right to own a gun,but I cant help thinking that the only reason you so opinionated is because its the way you were brought up,and we are never going to be able to change that.
I respect America and like most Canadians think of you both as an ally and a friend,but I question the integrity of an archaic law that allows guys like Santa or any other maroon a licence to kill.
I may take some flack for this,but its only my opinion.
tourists24
Well-Known Member
brett636
Well-Known Member
Watch this show DS. It may give you some insight into the 2nd amendment and why it was put into place originally. Its a three part show in youtube, and about 30 min. total. Its also pretty entertaining. Enjoy
Language warning: These videos have colorful language throughout them. I wouldn't play them near small children or someone who may be offended. If they are too colorful for these forums please let me know and I will remove them.
DownsizedUPS'er
missing my UPS family
it has been said many time, in different circles that if the Jews in Nazi Germany had had guns to protexct themselves, the Holocoust would never have happened. that makes for a very strong argument for legal, responsible gun ownership. the Nazi had the guns, and look what happened. protect yourselves, protect your families.
A tragic situation indeed, and to take the life of an innocent 8 year old girl who answered the door?
This guy has a lot of issues, and in the end took his own life, as he probably couldn't live with himself, based on what he did and how he did it.
My heart goes out to the survivors of the victims, as Christmas will never be the same for them.
This guy has a lot of issues, and in the end took his own life, as he probably couldn't live with himself, based on what he did and how he did it.
My heart goes out to the survivors of the victims, as Christmas will never be the same for them.
old brown shoe
30 year driver
All the anti gun dribble reminded me that I have not bought a new gun lately. So today I did my part in helping the economy and bought a new American made pistol. Thanks Santa
wkmac
Well-Known Member
av8torntn
Well-Known Member
wkmac
Well-Known Member
Your most welcome!
dilligaf
IN VINO VERITAS
Thanks WK, you did indeed do what you intended to and got me to thinking.........................hmmmmmm.
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