Saving UPS

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
You suggested that a law be put in to place to where you could not own stock in the company for whom you work. I then suggested that perhaps an employee who is also a stockholder is more committed to the success of that company than your average Joe Six Pack.

One of the first rules of investing is not to have all of our eggs in the same basket. A retirement based solely upon the stock of the company you work for is foolhardy--just ask the folks at Enron, Worldcom, etc.

UPS is a safe investment with a predictable return.
 

Omega man

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately the current micro-managing, abusive posture upper-management is taking is only creating a revenge minded uncooperative workforce. This is no recipe for a successful company to move into the future with.

We all watched UPS create many of its own problems because of short staffing and under-planning their operations through the years. Many of us were still willing to try to help this company when we weren’t treated so badly. Gone are the days now when the average driver goes above and beyond their job responsibilities to help the company function. In many cases you are even disciplined if it takes any extra time to do your normal duties by trying. I no longer meet other drivers to trade misroutes, no longer try to deliver misroutes, no longer wait or return for pickups, no longer make easy second attempts on send-agains, no longer try to explain additional services to customers, no longer spend time getting sales leads, and no longer try to fix my EDD. UPS upper-management made me this way.

What upper management doesn’t understand is that they can’t do it themselves. They need a cooperative and helpful workforce and are now in a position where they must earn it back. This may be the beginning of the end of UPS if that doesn’t happen.
 

TUT

Well-Known Member
You suggested that a law be put in to place to where you could not own stock in the company for whom you work. I then suggested that perhaps an employee who is also a stockholder is more committed to the success of that company than your average Joe Six Pack.

One of the first rules of investing is not to have all of our eggs in the same basket. A retirement based solely upon the stock of the company you work for is foolhardy--just ask the folks at Enron, Worldcom, etc.

UPS is a safe investment with a predictable return.

And I wouldn't have nothing but full agreement to that. But a UPS employee has many options to invest in other companies that have the same safeness and return as UPS. The thing is in your company as in mine the top people are only looking at what the companies stock is doing as it's huge money in their pocket as it grows and since they have direct control of the company they are squeezing work conditions assuming this helps the stock #'s, to levels that mankind if he could afford to stop would say "This just isn't right, it isn't worth it, we weren't taught to behave like this, when has the human element in life become secondary?". They are squeezing everything they can because they have so much equity in their own company and have direct control of it. So what I'm saying is perhaps you shouldn't be able to invest in a company where you have direct control, because you will tend to over-manage things, you lose your human touch on your own people. But said person can freely invest in another promising company and make their money based on how others manage that company. Again not saying it's the right answer here, but somewhere something has gone wrong with how we look at each other and treat one another in large companies. Isn't it nice to work for a company that now has the same complex invoices sent to your customers as you receive on a cell phone bill? It's little/big things like that, when I know we made a wrong turn somewhere.

Big management - Lets see how we can squeeze more out of the workforce, feeling/righteousness be damned. Lets see if we can dream up a new accessorial charge, lets put a little bug in our billing system that is hard to understand in the belief many won't care to figure it out. Lets also make said system not be able to reverse certain things, you know play to our advantage. I am not saying that is UPS, but that is the route a lot of corporate companies are all seemingly going to.
 

whiskey

Well-Known Member
I've never purchased UPS stock. As a Teamster, I find it a conflict of interest. In 1997 I struck the company. Virtually no one crossed the picket line. In 1999 UPS launched an IPO to erode Teamster solidarity in the event of a future work stoppage. What wasn't anticipated, was the mass exodus of good center manager's six months after the IPO. I guess you can call it the perfect storm. But the glass does seem half empty these days.
 

hudson

Well-Known Member
Upper management at UPS has made this a different company now. I think there was a certain amount of respect for hourly in years past said:
This is because anyone can drive a truck and deliver packages. Sorry you can't deal with the change, as most long term employees cant. More change is coming. Just wait.
 

stevetheupsguy

sʇǝʌǝʇɥǝndsƃnʎ
This is because anyone can drive a truck and deliver packages. Sorry you can't deal with the change, as most long term employees cant. More change is coming. Just wait.
Ha Ha, if anyone can do this, why aren't you? Oh that's right, sweating gives you heat rash in the saddle area.:surprised:
 

bluehdmc

Well-Known Member
This is because anyone can drive a truck and deliver packages. Sorry you can't deal with the change, as most long term employees cant. More change is coming. Just wait.

Maybe "anyone" can do it, but can "anyone" do it well?
There is a difference.
 

upsgrunt

Well-Known Member
This is because anyone can drive a truck and deliver packages. Sorry you can't deal with the change, as most long term employees cant. More change is coming. Just wait.


Anyone can do brain surgery as well. Would you like me cutting on you?
 

brownboxman

Well-Known Member
Well its good to see that I sparked a good debate. I would like to say as a 22 year employee I have been as open to change as any newer employee. The thing I have a problem with is the sense of lack of respect I am getting. And yes I saw it in this company before, and yes it is happening in many large companies today. But where is it written that hard working emplyees cant be given respect. And that goes for center level management too. My boss getting his can kicked every morning is not going to make my life any easier. So the question for some here seems to be, How is UPS going to survive without better production numbers? Well how is UPS going to survive the massive exodus of center level management because they are treated poorly. What hourly person is going to go into management after witnessing the beat down on their supervisors. I still believe without a certain respect between work groups this company will suffer.
 

RoyalFlush

One of Them
Well its good to see that I sparked a good debate. I would like to say as a 22 year employee I have been as open to change as any newer employee. The thing I have a problem with is the sense of lack of respect I am getting. And yes I saw it in this company before, and yes it is happening in many large companies today. But where is it written that hard working employees cant be given respect. And that goes for center level management too. My boss getting his can kicked every morning is not going to make my life any easier. So the question for some here seems to be, How is UPS going to survive without better production numbers? Well how is UPS going to survive the massive exodus of center level management because they are treated poorly. What hourly person is going to go into management after witnessing the beat down on their supervisors. I still believe without a certain respect between work groups this company will suffer.

UPS is having a difficult time competing with the FedEx. FedEx is growing fast. UPS is struggling to hold on to what it already has. Without higher production standards UPS will fail. The fixed costs (mostly wages and compensation) at UPS is the base of the problem. How can UPS do essentially the same thing as FedEx while paying their people much more and still charge the same price? The only two options are to pay people (hourly and management)less or increase production. It would be nice for UPS to lighten up on everyone, but it would also be the end of our jobs. The reality is that the pressure will continue because it has to.
 
I've never purchased UPS stock. As a Teamster, I find it a conflict of interest. In 1997 I struck the company. Virtually no one crossed the picket line. In 1999 UPS launched an IPO to erode Teamster solidarity in the event of a future work stoppage. What wasn't anticipated, was the mass exodus of good center manager's six months after the IPO. I guess you can call it the perfect storm. But the glass does seem half empty these days.

What do you think...maybe the teamsters should have an IPO!
 

Re-Raise

Well-Known Member
This is because anyone can drive a truck and deliver packages. Sorry you can't deal with the change, as most long term employees cant. More change is coming. Just wait.

Oh please tell me what valuable position you hold at our DELIVERY company.

Maybe watching people drive a truck and deliver packages?
 

TUT

Well-Known Member
UPS is having a difficult time competing with the FedEx. FedEx is growing fast. UPS is struggling to hold on to what it already has. Without higher production standards UPS will fail. The fixed costs (mostly wages and compensation) at UPS is the base of the problem. How can UPS do essentially the same thing as FedEx while paying their people much more and still charge the same price? The only two options are to pay people (hourly and management)less or increase production. It would be nice for UPS to lighten up on everyone, but it would also be the end of our jobs. The reality is that the pressure will continue because it has to.

That is possibly true. The problem is UPS won't be able to out produce FedEx in general because all corporate workers are being squeezed essentially in the same way, see BP being worked like a company struggling. But if you think you can be a bit more efficient, you can bet your competitors are doing the same types of things, which goes back to the imbalance of pay to a fair extent. It's also tough being #1, you have the business to lose and a mature business on Wall Street is judged on a 10% gain each year during normal times. But you do got to love how all of this works. UPS needs good numbers to show Wall Street, UPS workers see the good numbers and think things are well and use them as fuel during negotiations, which makes sense to do. UPS management is damned if the do or damned if they don't it appears.
 

tieguy

Banned
When the economy started to tank, we were given PCM's on how UPS had endured the Great Depression and how all UPSers came together and worked hard to help the company through. Ok I am a grown intelligent person, I understood the need to be a part of a plan to help this company compete in a very competitive environment.

Fast forward to present time. UPS last quarter 37% gain! In talking to our center manager he is being told to shoot for 9.2-9.5 hrs per day per driver. If profitability has returned, why the heal to the head of the workforce? [QUOTE

good companies dont generally take the year off after one good quarter. the realignment of the company and reduction of jobs this year and lately every year should tell you all you need to know.
 

brownboxman

Well-Known Member
Very good, I get it. But why don't you address the lack of respect shown to lower level managers on down through hourly people.
 
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