Scraping a driveway--does it deserve a warning letter?

[stevetheupsguy]

Quoting from a contract is one thing but we are talking the real world here. Sober could have, and maybe should have, sat and waited for a fellow Teamster to come and help him. The problem with this is two-fold: first, Sober already said that it would be several hours before help was available and that he was breaking trace to try to make his day easier and, second, being asked to help will impact the other driver's day as well. One of the five keys is "use existing equipment and facilities to assist in the lift/lower". Sober had his hand cart. The sheer size of the package would have made it difficult to properly use the hand cart but it could have been done. It appears from the photos that his plan was to get as close to the garage as possible and then move the pkg from the PC to the garage, using the weight of the package in his favor.

I think we are getting away from the original question of this thread and that is whether he deserved a warning letter for this or not. I don't think he did. He is a 23 year veteran with an excellent work record and I think a verbal would have been sufficient.

It's your mentality that makes this such a hard battle to fight.

Stop trying to make your day easier and cutting corners to save time because you want to get home at a decent hour or you don't want to inconvenience your on car. The contract is the real world.

It's obvious sober's management team didn't care enough about his excellent work record and 23 years on the job to look the other way on which even I agree is a bs accident, so why should he make their life easier when it comes to delivering overweights?

Looks like the "north" and the "south" are at it again. Careful Cino, someone may call what you do "Acceptable" to make you look bad, when in reality, the fact that they are running through their day so they can hurry home to see who said what on Brown Cafe.

I've gone out with many over sized/weight pkgs before, and have managed to deliver them without backing into a customer's driveway. On occasion I have called for assistance, when needed. It's up to the driver as to whether he/she wants to call for help, tell mgmt at start time that they will need assistance or are willing to go it alone. As for the warning letter? It's a warning letter, they do what they want, so if you don't want a WL, don't do something that could possibly bring one your way.

have you been causing trouble lately? i was gonna say because the cust. called the incident in and monetary assistance will be provided to fix the driveway your center manager had to give you a warning letter,, but then yrs ago i was involved in a accident where the other vehicle was totaled and the driver was taken away in a ambulance, but i was working the next day with no discipline

Being the runner/gunner that you are, I believe they use a different rule book for you.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

It's your mentality that makes this such a hard battle to fight.

Stop trying to make your day easier and cutting corners to save time because you want to get home at a decent hour or you don't want to inconvenience your on car. The contract is the real world.

It's obvious sober's management team didn't care enough about his excellent work record and 23 years on the job to look the other way on which even I agree is a bs accident, so why should he make their life easier when it comes to delivering overweights?

How am I cutting corners? By refusing to sit and wait for another hourly to come help me with an Over 70? If I can safely deliver the package on my own I will do it--if I can't I will call for help. I have yet to have to call for help on a single Over 70.

Sober's dispatch has skyrocketed since being transferred to his new center. Do you think he wants to add 2 hours to what is an already long day simply to wait for another hourly with an equally long day to be available to help? He had the right thought process going--he tried to get as close as he could to the delivery point to safely deliver the Over 70 and had it not been for the trailer hitch this thread would never have been started.

 

[JonFrum]

Sober, If you protest the Warning Letter, ask that in the future anyone driving a package car with a low bottom clearance be notified at the start of the workday if the vehicle sits even lower than usual. They'll probably refuse, but at least you made the point that the vehicle was fine all those other times. It was just this one time that you scrapped bottom.

Feeder drivers are always given advance notice of the percent of volume in their trailers, and they are authorized to make adjustments if things aren't kosher, including breaking down a set of doubles and swapping front to rear.

 

[Random_Facts]

It's always interesting how the biggest box coming down the line, is for the smallest car. I load one of those size cars, and my driver always gets 50 inch tv's, and Bikes. But their usually going to the 3rd floor apartment complex instead of that. As far as the scratch, on the driveway. A warning letter comes and goes. If you still have a job tomorrow, then hey just another lesson in life. "Life is a dance, sometimes you lead, sometimes you follow, don't worry about what you don't know, life is a dance you learn as you go"

 

[fxdwg]

I don't know about the warning letter, but approach all graded driveways at an angle to avoid scrapes.
I also think the box would have fit on a hand truck. I do it routinely. Plus it appears there were some straps to strap it to the hand truck.

 

[cachsux]

Sober, If you protest the Warning Letter, ask that in the future anyone driving a package car with a low bottom clearance be notified at the start of the workday if the vehicle sits even lower than usual. They'll probably refuse, but at least you made the point that the vehicle was fine all those other times. It was just this one time that you scrapped bottom.
God, I must be getting old because I`m thinking like management. How do they determine if it`s sitting lower than usual? Are they to check on a daily basis or is it the drivers job to notice on the pretrip? With what a yardstick and a notebook? You did notice the hitch and how low it hangs, right? If you did, if you know it hangs down, then maybe based on years of experience you look at a driveway and say to yourself that maybe you should stay out of this one.

Feeder drivers are always given advance notice of the percent of volume in their trailers, Yes we are. and they are authorized to make adjustments if things aren't kosher Adjustments?, including breaking down a set of doubles and swapping front to rear. This is the only adjustment and hopefully it didn`t get this far as the guy putting the set together,usually myself, should have paid attention to the % numbers on the seal controls. Still it has to be past a % difference before we`ll take them apart. Thing is though, a 75% pup with paper or steel is heavier than a 100% load of packages so pure numbers aren`t the deciding factor.

 

[ol'browneye]

I would have to say that it is an avoidable accident and under the circumstances, I might have approached the situation in the exact same way. It is not warning letter worthy though. I guess it just depends on what mood the warning letter giver-outer is in that day. A year ago we had a driver get charged with an accident and receive a warning letter for cracking a mirror while squeeznig in to his parking space. Just last week, different driver, same incident, no accident or warning letter at all. Go figure.

 

[fxdwg]

Doesn't your contract cover such things?

 

[stevetheupsguy]

We were told at a recent PCM that if we have a broken mirror and bring it to the mechanic, like the old days, it will be reported as an accident. I then asked the supe if an accident will be charged for wind blown in mirrors? Mirrors cracked during adjustments? Mirrors that just fell out during travel? The answer to all of these was NO!

 

[fxdwg]

Not just NO...but Hell NO!!!!!

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

We were told at a recent PCM that if we have a broken mirror and bring it to the mechanic, like the old days, it will be reported as an accident. I then asked the supe if an accident will be charged for wind blown in mirrors? Mirrors cracked during adjustments? Mirrors that just fell out during travel? The answer to all of these was NO!

We had a driver in one of our resort towns have his drivers side window hit by an RV on Friday. He watched the guy come down and was surprised when he didn't move over. Of course the RV never stopped. It pushed the mirror assembly in to the side window, cracking it. It was the third time this has happened to him yet he has still not learned to fold in his mirrors on that street, which is the main street through town and the busiest. I don't know if he will be charged with an accident over this but if so I would think it would be avoidable.

 

[JonFrum]

God, I must be getting old because I`m thinking like management. How do they determine if it`s sitting lower than usual? Are they to check on a daily basis or is it the drivers job to notice on the pretrip? With what a yardstick and a notebook? You did notice the hitch and how low it hangs, right? If you did, if you know it hangs down, then maybe based on years of experience you look at a driveway and say to yourself that maybe you should stay out of this one.

But Sober, based on his past experience in general, and specific experience with that driveway, knew he wouldn't hit bottom. Unfortunately he did.

My point was to place responsibility with Management in the hope that they would realize that sometimes your best judgement, based on past experience, might still be wrong.

Of course I know Management would never agree to give Sober a daily report of his car's clearence. But putting them in his shoes might make them think. Even if only this once.

 

[blue efficacy]

Seriously, I am an Irreg Driver so I know all about these Pottery Barn boxes. I have never handled one that I myself believe I would have trouble with putting on the two wheeler.

However, it's just a warning letter, just don't do it again, and don't lose sleep over it.

 

[iruhnman630]

Sorry to say it, but you probably should be charged for failing to clear all six sides.

But it won't hurt to fight it.

 

[tourists24]

just had an interesting thought Sober... isnt it funny that your new center is in so much disarray that they cant coordinate to get help to get enough drivers on the road, but they were all over your "accident". quick action in your case

 

[rod]

2 thoughts:


How would one go about "fixing" that scrape? Hell- it isn't even a scrape-its just a rub mark. I'm thinking any cement contractor would be rolling on the ground laughing if he was asked to check that boo-boo out.

I always found that if I politely asked for help from the customer with an over 70 that the majority of them would help me. If they refused I would "politely" tell them I would be back with their package the next day when I could bring some UPS help. (baffle them with b.s. was my moto) . I don't recall anyone not wanting their package that day- they always found someone that could help.

 

[soberups]

Sorry to say it, but you probably should be charged for failing to clear all six sides.

But it won't hurt to fight it.

Actually, the online "backing assessment" I was retired to take specifically states that, prior to backing, we are only supposed to check four sides of the vehicle, not six.

Its a multiple choice question, with "six" being one of the choices.... but six is the wrong answer.

I tried to argue the point with my management but they said that I had to show a 100% score on the assessment whether the information was correct or not. So I entered the wrong answer (four sides) in order to score the 100% and give them the metric they wanted to see.

 

[Big Babooba]

Actually, the online "backing assessment" I was retired to take specifically states that, prior to backing, we are only supposed to check four sides of the vehicle, not six.

Its a multiple choice question, with "six" being one of the choices.... but six is the wrong answer.

I tried to argue the point with my management but they said that I had to show a 100% score on the assessment whether the information was correct or not. So I entered the wrong answer (four sides) in order to score the 100% and give them the metric they wanted to see.

Catch 22

 

[sosocal]

here are the dominos that necessitate a warning letter...Follow along... Customer claims damage and UPS liability (IF they did not, none of the following occurs).....Liability means the center must notify the insurance company to take care of the claim - this is done by reporting the accident....now that there is an accident it must be clarified as avoidable or unavoidable....yes, by UPS standards this could have been avoided. Because there is now liability leading to reporting - there is an accident leading to avoidability....And finally to ensure standards are uniform in the center all avoidable accidents receive a warning letter. Happens all the time....

 

[soberups]

In any case, this debate over the merits of a warning letter has now been rendered a moot point.

I scraped the driveway on Friday, September 10th. I was told that I would be getting a warning letter, but it has not yet been issued to me. Per the contract, warning letters must be issued within 10 business days from the date when the incident is reported. The 10 business days have now elapsed. They can still issue the letter if they wish, but at this point it is not timely and will not be valid for the purposes of progressive discipline.

Perhaps that is the best possible outcome. I will be charged with an accident and have to wait another year to get a 14 yr safe-driving pin...which is reasonable....but I will not have my job threatened over what amounts to a ground-clearance incident.