Seems Iraq's VP doesn't agree with Bush either

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by susiedriver, Dec 5, 2005.

  1. susiedriver

    susiedriver New Member

  2. dannyboy

    dannyboy From the promised LAND



    Susie, in the whole article I did not see him dispute that the US was not training or training larger numbers of Iraqi's, just that they were being used the wrong way. And from the article, I gathered that the misuse is by Iraqi's in power to keep those out of power out.

    It would seem that as in most cases of getting rid of someone like Saddam, there are others that would step forward to fill the void, many of which are much like Saddam.

    We will train the army and the police, but what the politicians do with the men we train remains to be seen.

    d
     
  3. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    What an interesting concept we have here. An Iraqi vp exercising his freedom of speech to debate how these troops should be used and not having to worry about saddaam either killing him, raping his wife or throwing his kids against a wall. And yet some think we aren't making any progress in Iraq.
     
  4. susiedriver

    susiedriver New Member

    This is part of the problem.
     
  5. dannyboy

    dannyboy From the promised LAND

    Yes, I agree. Hell I cant believe I said that.:lol:

    You have Iraqi army members, under the control of the Iraqi politicians caring out the orders given them by those in power. I would assume that the VP is also in power?

    So how is this the problem of the USA, and how does it show that he disagrees with the statement that Bush made. After all, that is what the headline claimed the story was about.

    At the very best, the writer at AP screwed up by not drawing the lines to the scoop he claimed he made.

    Once again, all promise, no substance which is typical of many news agencies looking to get scoops on the others. And for people that only scan headlines and not read the story, they go around yelling that the Iraqi VP claims Bush is lying about training troops.

    But of course, that would not be the case in this thread.

    Best

    d
     
  6. wily_old_vet

    wily_old_vet New Member

    Yet yesterday one of the "heroes" of the left, John Kerry, said on Face the Nation that UPS troops were breaking into Iraqi homes at night, terrorizing the oocupants and that this should be taken over by the Iraqis.
     
  7. susiedriver

    susiedriver New Member

    Danny,
    Quite clearly the troops aren't trained properly if they can't be trusted to follow orders without carrying out some tribal grudge. The only reason the Iraqi troops fought at all in Tal Afar is beacause it was a Kurdish battalion battling Sunni Turkmen, they hate each other anyway. It is our problem because we own the hell hole, for at least the time being. I believe Colin Powell referred to it as the 'Pottery Barn Rule'.
     
  8. susiedriver

    susiedriver New Member

    Wily, is that what he said, or did he say:
    "You've got to begin to transfer authority to the Iraqis. And there
    is no reason, Bob, that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women, breaking sort of the customs of the--of--the historical customs,
    religious customs."

    Now wily, it is necessary for authorities to break into homes in the dead of the night in Iraq, to look for bad guys, and certainly a child would be terrified, wouldn't you agree? It would be better for us, America, if we could train Iraqis to do this, it would be less culturally offensive to the people whose hearts and minds we are trying to win. What is the problem you have with this? By the way, I don't know anyone on the 'left' who would consider Kerry a hero, and personally I don't think he's doing the Democratic party any favors by speaking out at this time; that would be better left to Murtha, IMHO.
     
  9. dannyboy

    dannyboy From the promised LAND

    OK so what customs was he talking about?

    And I am sure young american soldiers are just so glad to run around in the dead of night just so they can terrorize a bunch of women and kids. After all that is how we train them is it not.

    Glad Kerry is painting the cream of Americas crop that way. It ought to play well on Arabic telly.

    NOT!


    d
     
  10. susiedriver

    susiedriver New Member

    Religious and social customs, danny. Every soldier can't be versed in what would be considered insulting to an Iraqi woman, for example. That's why Kerry suggested having Iraqis do the searches. Like you said, I'm sure our men wouldn't mind them taking over the door to door and street patrols.
    Go to bed now, it's late.
     
  11. dannyboy

    dannyboy From the promised LAND

    Contrary, they are versed in what is offensive before they ship over seas. That is part of the training they get.

    Until the native army takes over, and Kerry will be the first to tell you they are not, it behooves our guys to search and destroy if they suspect terrorists are inside.

    Kinda like the drone that accidentally "dropped several bombs" on a house killing several inside, including #3 on a list of leading alQuida

    d
     
  12. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Another attempt by you to paint a negative image of our troops in action? Something you continue to deny.

    It would be better for us, America, if we could train Iraqis to do this, it would be less culturally offensive to the people whose hearts and minds we are trying to win. What is the problem you have with this?

    None. What problem do you have with our troops doing so to ensure their safety? Are we to only look for terrorists in houses free of children. Do we assume that terrorist do not have children? If a terrorist does something that draw our troops into his house looking for him are we too assume full responsibility for scaring his kids in the process? Is there a time and a place where your willing to actually assign a modicum of blame to the bad guys or must our troops continously shoulder your blame?

    By the way, I don't know anyone on the 'left' who would consider Kerry a hero,

    LOL thats a good one. Quite a few of your left wing buddies tried to do so during the last elections.


    and personally I don't think he's doing the Democratic party any favors by speaking out at this time; that would be better left to Murtha, IMHO.

    ahh murtha is your god at this time. until Kerry accuses Bush of some bizarre conspiracy at which time Kerry become your man. hell Bush could be your hero if he accused himself of some bizarre conspiracy.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2005
  13. susiedriver

    susiedriver New Member

    tie,

    Mis-state everything said, that is the tactic, eh? Tell me, if your home was broken into in the middle of the night by armed soldiers, wouldn't your wife and children (assuming you have them) be terrified? No one is calling our soldiers 'terrorists'.

    It seems the reading comprehension of a handful here is really quite lacking.
     
  14. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    tie,

    Mis-state everything said, that is the tactic, eh? Tell me, if your home was broken into in the middle of the night by armed soldiers, wouldn't your wife and children (assuming you have them) be terrified?

    My wife and children would not support terrorism and definitely would not allow it to exist in our neighborhood.

    No one is calling our soldiers 'terrorists'.

    Why do you do this? I never accused you of calling our troops terrorists. I did say you again found something to discuss that reflects poorly on our troops. There is a clear distinction between the two concepts.

    It seems the reading comprehension of a handful here is really quite lacking.

    Agreed. Though I wonder in your case if it is simply reading comprehension or whether you are being deliberately decietfull.
     
  15. susiedriver

    susiedriver New Member

    Tie, In no way does it reflect poorly on our troops. They are doing their job. Not everyone in Iraq is a terrorist, and sometimes innocent people get guns pointed at them, and that frightens them. Is that so hard to understand?
     
  16. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Not the issue. you again chose to raise an issue that reflects poorly on our troops. The question then arises as to your motives and your agenda. If our troops are to be discussed why did you not select the many positive choices you could have selected? Why oh why suzie Q do you keep selecting the negatives. Its like you think you can somehow denegrate our troops and yet support them. It makes no sense.
     
  17. susiedriver

    susiedriver New Member

    tie, please read the thread slowly. I was responding to an inaccurate quote that wily posted, nothing more, nothing less. The issue was raised by wily, not me.
     
  18. ok2bclever

    ok2bclever I Re Member

    As long as they criticize the USA while our troops are actively protecting them the are unlikely to be killed.

    The VP (and all others over in Iraq) certainly still has to worry about someone getting past the US military, the protective concrete walls, perimeter security guards and his own personal bodyguards to kill him, rape his wife and throw his kids against a wall (or in the river).

    This is happening every single day there.

    And yet some think we aren't making any progress in Iraq.


    Well at least it isn't saddam, that has to be some sort of consolation to those being killed, tortured, mutilated daily, I guess. :wink:
     
  19. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Ok can you post a story about our troop selling girl scout cookies or feeding and mentoring Iraqi children just so I'm clear on your intentions. Thanks hun.
     
  20. tieguy

    tieguy Banned