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Self-identified liberals and Democrats do badly on questions of basic economics.
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<blockquote data-quote="av8torntn" data-source="post: 746898" data-attributes="member: 8259"><p>Well it isn't as long as people like bbdsm are allowed to frame the debate. I haven't heard anyone credible talk of just stopping social security payments to those receiving them. That does not stop him or others from claiming that people who oppose bondage want to take grandmothers monthly welfare check away. It's always how do you convince the public to starve papaw or some other absurdity. If , and I think this is one thing that Bush understood, you frame the debate as saving social security they will be more successful. He had an impossible sell with an evenly divided congress that opposed his domestic policies along strict party lines. Most young people today understand that they are getting robbed with the social security system and I think if given the choice to opt out and invest even 5% of their salary would not even think twice. I have to assume here that most are willing to accept the fact that their salary is reduced by 6% not the 3% that government tries to sell you. Most people in my generation understand that we are not entitled to social security like the older generation feels. We can see the basic math and it just is a poor deal. You guys are correct in the fact that efforts to clean up this mess have been blocked but there is a serious storm on the horizon. I understand that I will pay into this "system" the rest of my life but more and more are willing to do this if we could get the opportunity free the next generation from this bondage. More and more people understand that our parents and grandparents have dumped this ponzi scheme in our laps to deal with.</p><p> </p><p>One of the reasons the Bush plan was so opposed was because the government understood if people were given just a little control over their money that it would only be a matter of time before they demanded more and more control , especially after seeing the results of compounding. It was such a small percentage that they were offering to give us control of and the crying from the left was absurd. The common line was Bush was going to allow people to gamble away their life savings as if that was somehow a worse deal than what the government was doing. As long as you guys on the left are allowed to control the debate you are correct it will be politically impossible to free ourselves from this burden. Honestly in many cases it isn't the people that fear freedom as much as it is the government. </p><p> </p><p>I think that you really are looking at it the wrong way. We should take a lesson from you guys on the left. They should not set out to eliminate it just to "improve" it in a way that will eventually lead to elimination.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="av8torntn, post: 746898, member: 8259"] Well it isn't as long as people like bbdsm are allowed to frame the debate. I haven't heard anyone credible talk of just stopping social security payments to those receiving them. That does not stop him or others from claiming that people who oppose bondage want to take grandmothers monthly welfare check away. It's always how do you convince the public to starve papaw or some other absurdity. If , and I think this is one thing that Bush understood, you frame the debate as saving social security they will be more successful. He had an impossible sell with an evenly divided congress that opposed his domestic policies along strict party lines. Most young people today understand that they are getting robbed with the social security system and I think if given the choice to opt out and invest even 5% of their salary would not even think twice. I have to assume here that most are willing to accept the fact that their salary is reduced by 6% not the 3% that government tries to sell you. Most people in my generation understand that we are not entitled to social security like the older generation feels. We can see the basic math and it just is a poor deal. You guys are correct in the fact that efforts to clean up this mess have been blocked but there is a serious storm on the horizon. I understand that I will pay into this "system" the rest of my life but more and more are willing to do this if we could get the opportunity free the next generation from this bondage. More and more people understand that our parents and grandparents have dumped this ponzi scheme in our laps to deal with. One of the reasons the Bush plan was so opposed was because the government understood if people were given just a little control over their money that it would only be a matter of time before they demanded more and more control , especially after seeing the results of compounding. It was such a small percentage that they were offering to give us control of and the crying from the left was absurd. The common line was Bush was going to allow people to gamble away their life savings as if that was somehow a worse deal than what the government was doing. As long as you guys on the left are allowed to control the debate you are correct it will be politically impossible to free ourselves from this burden. Honestly in many cases it isn't the people that fear freedom as much as it is the government. I think that you really are looking at it the wrong way. We should take a lesson from you guys on the left. They should not set out to eliminate it just to "improve" it in a way that will eventually lead to elimination. [/QUOTE]
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