Seniority for bidding and vacations

[Powertothe240]

What's up people, I was sitting and reading throught the contract book while on lunch. I noticed that it said vacation bidding and route bidding where determined by seniority.
Seniority as is says is measured by continuous length of service with the company, and prevails at all times.

Does this mean that vacations and route bidding should be measured by TOTAL senority, and not just full time senority?

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

The amout of weeks you get for vacation,are by total seniority. The order you pick them, goes by your full time seniority.

 

[Powertothe240]

That's how we do it currently, the contract seems to contradict that though.

 

[oldngray]

That's how we do it currently, the contract seems to contradict that though.

Nope. Total seniority determines how many weeks you get and full time seniority (if you are a full timer) is how you get to choose when those weeks can be taken.

 

[barnyard]

That's how we do it currently, the contract seems to contradict that though.

Grieve it then. I guarantee it will go nowhere.

 

[Powertothe240]

It's not really an issue for me. A coworker and myself had gotten the contract books a short while back and were discussing some of the wording. I love some parts of law, and a good debate. I was hoping to hear from anyone that had personally dealt with this sort of thing.

 

[By The Book]

What's up people, I was sitting and reading throught the contract book while on lunch. I noticed that it said vacation bidding and route bidding where determined by seniority.
Seniority as is says is measured by continuous length of service with the company, and prevails at all times.

Does this mean that vacations and route bidding should be measured by TOTAL senority, and not just full time senority?

Yes, within each classification. Part-time and full-time. So yes it is being applied.

 

[Mugarolla]

What's up people, I was sitting and reading throught the contract book while on lunch. I noticed that it said vacation bidding and route bidding where determined by seniority.
Seniority as is says is measured by continuous length of service with the company, and prevails at all times.

Does this mean that vacations and route bidding should be measured by TOTAL senority, and not just full time senority?

Total seniority is your seniority date, the day of transfer. You get credit equal to your part time years only for vacation weeks eligible and retirement purposes. Nothing else. Well, except for when laying off 22.3 employees. Then total company seniority comes into play.

Central Region Supplement
Article 3 Seniority

Section 10-Part-time Employees Transferring To

Full-time Jobs Other Than Hub and Preload

After the completion of the job selection procedure outlined in Section

8 of this Article, the resulting opening will be filled as follows:

Part-time employees with six (6) or more month’s seniority may bid

on a full-time opening in their building in all months except

November and December, providing they meet the same requirements

as applicants for that full-time job. The six (6) months or

more may be reduced upon mutual agreement. The permanent new

job or permanent vacancy resulting from the procedure outlined

above will be posted for a period of five (5) working days. The job

will be awarded to the senior bidding employee.

The employee awarded the job must satisfactorily complete a thirty

(30) working day training period. An employee who disqualifies

himself/herself on his/her first (1st) attempt shall not be allowed to

bid again for one (1) year. An employee who fails to qualify, or disqualifies

themselves on his/her second (2nd) attempt, shall not be allowed

to bid again for three (3) years. The above procedure will be applied

on an alternating six-for-one basis, (e. g., for every seven (7) jobs,

six (6) will be filled as outlined above and the other from applicants

from other sources).

Part-time employees successfully transferring to full-time jobs will


be considered as newly hired full-time employees and will be added


to the appropriate seniority list. Their seniority date will be the day


of the transfer.

Part-time employees entering into a full-time combination job must

remain in that job for a period of nine (9) months before being eligible

to bid again to another full-time combination job.

For vacation and retirement purposes, the employee shall receive


additional seniority credit equal to all time worked as a part-time


employee.

 

[Bottom rung]

The vacation selection is a joke. It should be total seniority. Not just full time. Then they get to chose all weeks at once so they can work out side deals with other drivers who didn't have the seniority to get the preferred weeks. Regardless of seniority.
You shouldn't be allowed to work option weeks if all drivers aren't utilized all week. This hasn't affected me yet as I don't take time off in the "preferred" time in my building. I see these new guys getting robbed, out of good picks and money. All because some driver can't afford to not have fifty five hours in for the week. Or they have nothing else to do in life.

 

[Mugarolla]

The vacation selection is a joke. It should be total seniority. Not just full time. Then they get to chose all weeks at once so they can work out side deals with other drivers who didn't have the seniority to get the preferred weeks. Regardless of seniority.
You shouldn't be allowed to work option weeks if all drivers aren't utilized all week. This hasn't affected me yet as I don't take time off in the "preferred" time in my building. I see these new guys getting robbed, out of good picks and money. All because some driver can't afford to not have fifty five hours in for the week. Or they have nothing else to do in life.

They have no life. They live to work. I'm sorry, but I work to live.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I agree that the vacation selection process needs to be tweaked. The selection order should still be based on classification seniority while the total number of weeks should still be based on company seniority; however, I agree that it is unfair that senior guys get all the prime weeks while junior drivers are left to pick from the scraps. The selection process should be done in several rounds----the first round everyone would choose their first two weeks with each successive round following the same format until all vacation weeks have been selected. Yes, I am a senior driver, but I am not that old that I don't remember how frustrating it was to not be able to choose time off while the kids were on their school vacations.

I also agree that no one who is on vacation should be able to work unless everyone else is already working. I disagree that they not be allowed to run their own bid route.

 

[Mugarolla]

I agree that the vacation selection process needs to be tweaked. The selection order should still be based on classification seniority while the total number of weeks should still be based on company seniority; however, I agree that it is unfair that senior guys get all the prime weeks while junior drivers are left to pick from the scraps. The selection process should be done in several rounds----the first round everyone would choose their first two weeks with each successive round following the same format until all vacation weeks have been selected. Yes, I am a senior driver, but I am not that old that I don't remember how frustrating it was to not be able to choose time off while the kids were on their school vacations.

I also agree that no one who is on vacation should be able to work unless everyone else is already working. I disagree that they not be allowed to run their own bid route.

It is done in rounds in the Central for areas where employees cannot get a summer vacation.

 

[oldngray]

The more senior drivers put in their time at the bottom and it is only fair for new hires to do the same. Extra agreements outside the contract such as people bidding and then swapping weeks or selecting a week then later choosing to work it when there are other drivers laid off is wrong though.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Whatever---it is an unfair selection process.

 

[Bottom rung]

It is done in rounds in the Central for areas where employees cannot get a summer vacation.

If it passes a vote amongst the drivers.

 

[PT Car Washer]

If it passes a vote amongst the drivers.

Correction. If it passes a vote by the Union members.

 

[Mugarolla]

Correction. If it passes a vote by the Union members.

There is no vote. Contract says with the approval of the local union. Granted, the local union would be dumb to go against the majority if the majority did not want the segments. So in a sense, the local union might take a vote to see how many they would piss off compared to how many it may help.

It would not be a wise move to go against the majority to help a few.

 

[Powertothe240]

Thanks Mug, that more of what I was looking for.
Speaking of the devil though, one of our driver Sups announced that he would be posting the vacation bid sheets tomorrow, so we can start bidding on Mon.
The list was in total seniority order.
I guess I'll get to see first hand after all.

 

[Inthegame]

... I agree that it is unfair that senior guys get all the prime weeks while junior drivers are left to pick from the scraps...

A few years ago this was a hot topic in my center. Not having enough steward business to do, I did an analysis of the vacation selections (200+ on our list) and found the most senior drivers with 7 weeks averaged 3.5 summer weeks while the next tiers of 5 & 6 week drivers averaged 4+ summer weeks. Now that's logical in that these guys most likely have younger kids off school in the summer. So at least in this center, it wasn't the greedy senior drivers after all.

Before switching to any other selection, do some math. Twice through will leave very few summer weeks left for senior guys in round two and nothing for junior employees and that will be the case for many years.

Switching systems means those guys that sacrificed those vacations in prior years lose twice. Leaving the once through in place will eventually pay off.

A better solution (IMO) would be to either negotiate increased vacation pay for non summer weeks or pay 43 hours for summer weeks, 47 hours for non-summer, and watch the summer open up. Then it remains a seniority choice and money makes people do strange things...

 

[confusedinMS]

I am not sure where to ask this question:

My SO had a standing route from Arkansas to Mississippi. He was told today that a returning senior guy now has his route and he has to go to Texas. Can they do this? I am confused on how this occurs.