Seniority In Operations

[KidUPS]

What does it count for? From my understanding, it counts for vacation selection, extra work and going home early. (Going home early depending on the shift if you are a full time employee.)

So why do some employees continue to think that seniority counts towards what work and/or amount of work is delegated to them (not talking about driving, more Hub operations such as sort, unload, etc.)

Does different locals have different language on this?

Reason being, I had an employee who I nearly had to walk out for failing to work as directed. He was so adamant that I came to realize he was more misinformed rather then trying to show me up.

 

[LVD*4*LIFE]

KidUPS, there are a lot of politics at play here.
I myself have been part time inside for almost 15 years now. It is a GIVEN that I will do less work than anyone on my deck. No one denies this or questions it. Not even the full time sups. It does not mean the quality of work I do is poor. Nor do I fail to work as directed.
But, if you are getting grief from a lesser senoirity employee, that is another case.
There is nothing written in the contract about this.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Seniority does not dictate assignment.

If the person that is complaining is a lower-seniority employee complaining of a higher seniority doing less work, it is up to the lower seniority person to set the bar lower for themselves offset the extra work given to them.

If it's a higher seniority person complaining that the workload is more than lower seniority people, it's the same predicament. This person needs to set the bar lower for themselves and changes will obviously be made, if they're really that unhappy.

It is all politics in the end, as mentioned, generally. The people who have never filed a grievance, complain about anything, made a wave, almost always get preferential treatment. That's the way it goes.

 

[thelus]

i know here in 705. seniority prevails over all instances. and its in the contract all extra work is supposed to be delegated to the full timers first. and one last thing i hope that employee that you sent off the clock had his guarantee else he can file a grievance on that.

 

[Livin the Dream?]

Seniority does not dictate assignment.

If the person that is complaining is a lower-seniority employee complaining of a higher seniority doing less work, it is up to the lower seniority person to set the bar lower for themselves offset the extra work given to them.

If it's a higher seniority person complaining that the workload is more than lower seniority people, it's the same predicament. This person needs to set the bar lower for themselves and changes will obviously be made, if they're really that unhappy.

It is all politics in the end, as mentioned, generally. The people who have never filed a grievance, complain about anything, made a wave, almost always get preferential treatment. That's the way it goes.

That appears to be how it works here. Does that actually make good sense to anyone at all?

 

[kingOFchester]

That appears to be how it works here. Does that actually make good sense to anyone at all?

Being that we are a union shop.....YES.

Not saying I agree or disagree......I'm just saying.

 

[KidUPS]

I have come to learn over my course of supervising full time employees who have been so much (sometimes) effort and sweat into the company that seniority is everything to them. Literally everything to them. Something they hold very sacred. And I could understand why the employee was not happy when I sent him to do his job in a different location in the building. He saw employees with less seniority able to stay put in the operation while he had to go and do something he felt a part timer should be doing.

I have always tried to be respectful towards higher seniority employees. They tend to always be the most consistent anyways and willing to step up when you call on them (in my experience).

I think after talking to the employee, and explaining to him that the reason I called on him was because I trusted his experience and work ethic. I explained to the employee I felt I could delegate him some work in a different part of the building and not have to stand there and overlook his work. Things have been squashed but I believe a lot of this came to because both of us were unwilling to put pride aside. Lesson learned.

 

[55andout?]

i know here in 705. seniority prevails over all instances. and its in the contract all extra work is supposed to be delegated to the full timers first. and one last thing i hope that employee that you sent off the clock had his guarantee else he can file a grievance on that.

Close but not all the time. When its extra air work like delivering on Saturday before mothers day or during peak, that extra work goes to the air drivers first. Also, seniority does not entitle you to go home and take a scheduled day off over someone with less seniority, this is a managment decision.

 

[dilligaf]

Close but not all the time. When its extra air work like delivering on Saturday before mothers day or during peak, that extra work goes to the air drivers first. Also, seniority does not entitle you to go home and take a scheduled day off over someone with less seniority, this is a managment decision.

Not here.
On a day to day basis, seniority rules here. If we have extra drivers the days off are given from the top down. Now if I requested a day off, lets say an RO (no pay), days in advance and was approved then someone over me couldn't bump me out of my day off.

If we have extra work it is offered from the top down and forced from the bottom up. In that order.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

I have come to learn over my course of supervising full time employees who have been so much (sometimes) effort and sweat into the company that seniority is everything to them. Literally everything to them. Something they hold very sacred. And I could understand why the employee was not happy when I sent him to do his job in a different location in the building. He saw employees with less seniority able to stay put in the operation while he had to go and do something he felt a part timer should be doing.

I have always tried to be respectful towards higher seniority employees. They tend to always be the most consistent anyways and willing to step up when you call on them (in my experience).

I think after talking to the employee, and explaining to him that the reason I called on him was because I trusted his experience and work ethic. I explained to the employee I felt I could delegate him some work in a different part of the building and not have to stand there and overlook his work. Things have been squashed but I believe a lot of this came to because both of us were unwilling to put pride aside. Lesson learned.

not that you asked:

The employee is correct. extra work, outside of his/her work area, is offered in seniority order from top down. that person is to be OFFERED work , not forced. that is in the national agreement, and if they knew better, they would not even argue it, but get a steward to correct you. If that seniority employee does not want the work, it's then offered to next seniority employee. If no one wants the work, the lowest seniority employee is forced.

this isn't a wishy-washy subject, sounds like you violated his/her right to deny the work.

of course you didn't post the WHOLE story , and I don't blame you. But if it's work outside of the area he/she reports to, it's considered extra work and OFFERED from top of the list down.

 

[Solidarity413]

not that you asked:

The employee is correct. extra work, outside of his/her work area, is offered in seniority order from top down. that person is to be OFFERED work , not forced. that is in the national agreement, and if they knew better, they would not even argue it, but get a steward to correct you. If that seniority employee does not want the work, it's then offered to next seniority employee. If no one wants the work, the lowest seniority employee is forced.

this isn't a wishy-washy subject, sounds like you violated his/her right to deny the work.

of course you didn't post the WHOLE story , and I don't blame you. But if it's work outside of the area he/she reports to, it's considered extra work and OFFERED from top of the list down.

Sleeve do you know what article that is? I bumped a guy out the other week and he was pissed about it (even though he had 1.5+ years less seniority then me). He went to some "steward" although he won't say who the steward was just "a steward" and said the steward told him that I was wrong to do that. I know a lot of the articles off the top of my head but couldn't find that one.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Sleeve do you know what article that is? I bumped a guy out the other week and he was pissed about it (even though he had 1.5+ years less seniority then me). He went to some "steward" although he won't say who the steward was just "a steward" and said the steward told him that I was wrong to do that. I know a lot of the articles off the top of my head but couldn't find that one.

explain how you bumped someone? it would be the supervisor making that decision

I am not sure if that is in the contract. it might be local practice that dictates how that works. If thats the case then I could be wrong with the above.

 

[Cow]

Saturday only work?

My UPS driver said that the senior people can work Saturday only delivering mainly light documents and contracts and earn the equivalent of 5 days worth of work. He said that he didn't have enough seniority and might need 25 years to get those plum routes. True or myth?

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Re: Saturday only work?

My UPS driver said that the senior people can work Saturday only delivering mainly light documents and contracts and earn the equivalent of 5 days worth of work. He said that he didn't have enough seniority and might need 25 years to get those plum routes. True or myth?

Saturday and Sunday work is offered top-down by seniority, for first full-time drivers who did not work more than 37 hours in the current week, then part-timers in seniority order regardless or hours worked.

 

[Cow]

Re: Saturday only work?

Saturday and Sunday work is offered top-down by seniority, for first full-time drivers who did not work more than 37 hours in the current week, then part-timers in seniority order regardless or hours worked.

But is my UPS driver correct is saying that the pay is so much higher that some people can work on Saturdays and earn almost as much as a 37 hour person?

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Re: Saturday only work?

But is my UPS driver correct is saying that the pay is so much higher that some people can work on Saturdays and earn almost as much as a 37 hour person?

Part-time air drivers make a little over 20/hr and friend/t make over 22/hr.

 

[Solidarity413]

explain how you bumped someone? it would be the supervisor making that decision

I am not sure if that is in the contract. it might be local practice that dictates how that works. If thats the case then I could be wrong with the above.

We're both floaters, the sup need one person to go off dock to a different work area. Same job, so no classification issues and I said I want to stay on my dock. In the hub (maybe just my local) but if you are going to be sent off your area you have the right to bump someone if they have less seniority then you and are still qualified for the job.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

We're both floaters, the sup need one person to go off dock to a different work area. Same job, so no classification issues and I said I want to stay on my dock. In the hub (maybe just my local) but if you are going to be sent off your area you have the right to bump someone if they have less seniority then you and are still qualified for the job.

I was talking more or less about extra work. When your work area is complete, extra work in other areas is offered from the top down (for more hours).

If you are part-time and moved to a different work area at the beginning of shift, I do not agree that you should be bumping anyone out of their own assignment. There is language in the national agreement that says seniority does not dictate assignment, load, etc.

 

[KidUPS]

not that you asked:

The employee is correct. extra work, outside of his/her work area, is offered in seniority order from top down. that person is to be OFFERED work , not forced. that is in the national agreement, and if they knew better, they would not even argue it, but get a steward to correct you. If that seniority employee does not want the work, it's then offered to next seniority employee. If no one wants the work, the lowest seniority employee is forced.

this isn't a wishy-washy subject, sounds like you violated his/her right to deny the work.

of course you didn't post the WHOLE story , and I don't blame you. But if it's work outside of the area he/she reports to, it's considered extra work and OFFERED from top of the list down.

Perhaps I didn't explain it correctly. The work outside is considered day to day operations. It just happens that some shipments must be processed outside rather then brought up the belts into the operation (Bulk/late drop offs in the air building by drivers trying to make East Pull). The work they do outside is the same procedure as inside. It is not extra work, just volume to be processed in a different location of the hub.

As the last I heard, since the shipments are processed in the same manner (collecting paperwork, handling), then it is not considered outside the employees work area therefore they are required to work wherever the supervisors wants them to.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Perhaps I didn't explain it correctly. The work outside is considered day to day operations. It just happens that some shipments must be processed outside rather then brought up the belts into the operation (Bulk/late drop offs in the air building by drivers trying to make East Pull). The work they do outside is the same procedure as inside. It is not extra work, just volume to be processed in a different location of the hub.

As the last I heard, since the shipments are processed in the same manner (collecting paperwork, handling), then it is not considered outside the employees work area therefore they are required to work wherever the supervisors wants them to.

Ok, makes sense. I'm sure it all goes by local practice anyway, so what happens here doesn't necessarily happen elsewhere.