Shop Steward siding with company @ Panel hearing?

PiedmontSteward

RTW-4-Less
Show me in the Teamster oath where it says I must participate in a lie or coverup and I will get back to you.

The 22.3 did the right thing---I would have done the same.

International Brotherhood of Teamsters Constitution said:
Each person upon becoming amember thereby pledges his honor; to faithfully observe the Constitution and laws of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters,and the Bylaws and laws of his Local Union;to comply with all rules and regulations for the government of the International Union and his Local Union; to faith
fully perform all duties assigned to him to the best of his ability and skill;to conduct himself or herself at all times in such a manner as not to bring reproach upon the Union; to take an affirmative part in the business and activities of the Union and accept and discharge his responsibilities during any authorized strike or lockout; that he will not divulge to nonmembers the private business of the Union unless authorized to reveal the same; to never knowingly harm a fellow member;to never discriminate against a fellow worker on account of race, color, religion, sex, age, physical disability, sexual orientation,or national origin; to refrain from any conduct that would interfere with the Union’s performance of its legal or contractual obligations; and at all times to bear true and faithful allegiance to the International Brotherhood of Teamsters and his Local Union.

I can almost guarantee you every local's bylaws includes a clause concerning members informing on other members to the employer.

Local 81's example of an oath of membership said:
FELLOW WORKER, YOU WILL NOW TAKE AN OBLIGATION THAT WILL BIND YOU TO THE INTERNATIONAL BROTHERHOOD OF TEAMSTERS AND THIS LOCAL UNION, AND THAT WILL IN NO WAY CONFLICT WITH YOUR RELIGIOUS BELIEF OR YOUR DUTIES AS A CITIZEN:

I, (GIVE NAME) , PLEDGE MY HONOR TO FAITHFULLY OBSERVE THE CONSTITUTION AND THE LAWS OF THE INTERNATIONAL BROTHERHOOD OF TEAMSTERS AND THE BY-LAWS AND LAWS OF THIS LOCAL UNION.

I PLEDGE THAT I WILL COMPLY WITH ALL THE RULES AND REGULATIONS FOR THE GOVERNMENT OF THE INTERNATIONAL UNION AND THIS LOCAL UNION.

I WILL FAITHFULLY PERFORM ALL THE DUTIES ASSIGNED TO ME TO THE BEST OF MY ABILITY AND SKILL.

I WILL CONDUCT MYSELF AT ALL TIMES IN A MANNER AS NOT TO BRING REPROACH UPON MY UNION.

I SHALL TAKE AN AFFIRMATIVE PART IN THE BUSINESS AND ACTIVITIES OF THE UNION AND ACCEPT AND DISCHARGE MY RESPONSIBILITIES DURING ANY AUTHORIZED STRIKE OR LOCKOUT.

I PLEDGE NOT TO DIVULGE TO NON-MEMBERS THE PRIVATE BUSINESS OF THIS LOCAL UNION, UNLESS AUTHORIZED TO REVEAL SAME.

I WILL NEVER KNOWINGLY HARM A FELLOW MEMBER.
I WILL NEVER DISCRIMINATE AGAINST A FELLOW WORKER ON ACCOUNT OF RACE, COLOR, RELIGION, SEX, AGE, PHYSICAL DISABILITY, OR NATURAL ORIGIN.

I WILL REFRAIN FROM ANY CONDUCT THAT WOULD INTERFERE WITH THE UNION’S PERFORMANCE OF ITS LEGAL OR CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATIONS.

I WILL AT ALL TIMES BEAR TRUE AND FAITHFUL ALLEGIANCE TO THE INTERNATIONAL BROTHERHOOD OF TEAMSTERS AND THIS LOCAL UNION.

You can/should be brought before your local e-board and face having your card pulled as a result of informing. While this isn't much of a deterrent in RTW states, it has a great deal more impact in a closed shop state.

No one is expected to lie and/or cover something up for another member. But running and giving management the rope to hang another Teamster is despicable; a :censored2: bird who won't change his ways is going to get himself fired eventually so why help the company cut his throat?
 
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Jackburton

Gone Fish'n
How much do you think your steward is getting paid to look after your best interests??
I'd like to add that there are members who purposely pull thier own "open and shut" cash grievances ( sups working) in exchange for other employees discipline to be removed or reduced significantly. This of course at the behest of the member filing to protect his brother who might have had a bad day.
 

Jackburton

Gone Fish'n
There was a reason for my rather harsh response to the OP. We had a seasonal driver who was fired after his helper accused him of sexual harassment. The shop steward and BA worked on his behalf and he was brought back to work on the inside and to drive only as needed. He then decided to try to hide a couple of undelivered packages by giving them to a 22.3, who let mgt know what had happened. The shop steward and BA went to bat once again and the driver was brought back under a last chance agreement. The last straw came about a week later when he decided to sheet a couple of call tags for towns 10 minutes apart within a minute of one another away from both addresses. The BA and both shop stewards attended his reinstatement meeting but it was obvious that they had grown tired of the situation and the overall sentiment of the drivers was that this guy had to go. The termination was upheld.

Being a part of the union does not mean that the union is required to defend stupidity.
By your post, the 22.3 informed management of this drivers transgression, then why did the 22.3 take the packages in the first place and not inform the member he shouldn't be trying to hide them? The answer is the 22.3 lacks a spine to keep him and his co worker out of harms way. This is the type of person who would let me hang myself instead of helping me not get the noose around my neck, wether I knew it was wrong or not.
 

BigUnionGuy

Got the T-Shirt
I wonder how many other times this driver has been in hot water.
Quite a few times, actually. And several times, he was caught doing this exact same thing

Not surprising.

Being a part of the union does not mean that the union is required to defend stupidity.

It's called "duty of fair representation".

You can't play God.... and decide, what cases you want to defend.

But what happened to the 22.3 rat? This person needs to be kicked out of the union.

I understand the sentiment.

I can almost guarantee you every local's bylaws includes a clause concerning members informing on other members to the employer.

That goes back to the "oath of membership".... It's a double edge sword.


Bottom line....

No member, should be running to management to "inform" on another.


But....

No member, should expect another to "collude" in a deception.... to cover their arse.


It's just asking for trouble.



-Bug-
 

moriar7y

Member
Bottom line....

No member, should be running to management to "inform" on another.


But....

No member, should expect another to "collude" in a deception.... to cover their arse.


It's just asking for trouble.



-Bug-
I have to say that I both agree and disagree with you. Let's not forget that we ultimately work for UPS, which means that - in the general sense and with a great bit of larger meaning - the customer comes first. I think this is best explained by example:

Tom from UnLoad witnesses a fellow employee (Jimmy) pulling down walls or otherwise mistreating packages inside the trailer. Management does not witness any of the things Jimmy is doing. If Tom tried to explain to Jimmy that what he was doing was improper and was causing damage to the packages and their contents, explaining proper work methods and the benefits of them, and Jimmy chose to completely ignore him, I would say that Tom has not only the right but it is a duty to the customer to report what he is seeing to management.

While I think we can agree that one-time, harmless offenses shouldn't result in immediate "informing" to management, long-term offenses or very severe/unsafe offenses ought to be reported. I think that it is a duty to the customer that we hold not only ourselves but the best and worst of our brothers to the highest standard possible. The first thing on the checklist is peer motivation/instruction. If we cannot influence our peers in a positive manner, than I believe we have to "hand off" the issue to management, not forgetting to keep the positive attitude and motivation that is oh-so-important.

I think that the divergence in thought that I and many other people have is in the purpose of the union. Taken from Wikipedia:
A trade union is an organization of workers who have united together to achieve common goals such as protecting the integrity of its trade, achieving higher pay, increasing the number of employees an employer hires, and better working conditions.

-Source: Wikipedia Entry - Trade Union

The first thing listed is the protection of the integrity of the trade. This is our loyalty to our customers. The second thing is higher pay, which I think speaks for itself. The third thing is simply an odd way of wording "growth of the industry," which is mutually wanted between the union and the employer. And finally the fourth thing is better working conditions, which one could argue is the exact reason "informing" to management is the right thing to do. UPS spends lots of time and money developing methods that are meant to fulfill to this fourth point, and if I saw an employee purposefully and knowingly disregarding these methods, if would make me wonder whether they believe in the union in the first place.

To summarize, I guess I would say we disagree because I don't see Unions the same way you do, the same way a lot of others do. A lot of people (not necessarily you) see unions as simply a way of dodging punishment. People join the union so that they can be lazy and not follow the rules, and be afforded the protections of the entire work force. I see a union as a way to argue for better working conditions, as a way of protecting the integrity of the trade so that our customers receive the best possible service that we can give, while at the same time protecting our safety as workers and providing us with a fair salary. Ultimately, Unions are here to make sure that we are treated fairly.

TL;DR: I will report a fellow union member if they are doing something unsafe or something that hurts the service that our customers are receiving, because that's not what unions are about.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
As it turns out it would not have made a difference whether the 22.3 had alerted management or not. They tracked the packages in question and had the driver dead to rights; in fact, they even gave him a chance to "fess up", which he declined---he was then walked out.
 

pretender

Well-Known Member
As it turns out it would not have made a difference whether the 22.3 had alerted management or not. They tracked the packages in question and had the driver dead to rights; in fact, they even gave him a chance to "fess up", which he declined---he was then walked out.

If management gives a person a chance to "fess up", they already have the goods on him/her--So, ALWAYS tell the truth.
 

upschuck

Well-Known Member
As it turns out it would not have made a difference whether the 22.3 had alerted management or not. They tracked the packages in question and had the driver dead to rights; in fact, they even gave him a chance to "fess up", which he declined---he was then walked out.
How would they have had him "dead to rights" if 22.3 had not alerted them? If 22.3 guy had not tattled on the guy, he still would of had his job. Whether he deserves the job is a different matter.
 

Nimnim

The Nim
How would they have had him "dead to rights" if 22.3 had not alerted them? If 22.3 guy had not tattled on the guy, he still would of had his job. Whether he deserves the job is a different matter.

It's possible management knew what happened and either asked the 22.3 for confirmation or the 22.3 reported it without knowing management already knew and wasn't going to ask them about it.
 

upschuck

Well-Known Member
If management knew, then the 22.3 can not lie if asked, or they would be risking their own job, but that is not how I had read Dave's post on this.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
We have to protect members at all costs. We can not bring reproach on a member. We might not agree or like a member but we have to go all out for them. When a member is in trouble and they don't like me I make sure I show them how hard I work for him. Maybe he will appreciate me. It happens. To answer your question I do what I have to do to get the member off. Then I tell the member don't do this again
You got lucky. There's a difference in a guy like you and a guy like me. I'm out for everyone not myself. We take chances for the member and you watch out for you. No disrespect to you David.
When I was fired, the steward was absolutely silent. But then again I didn't expect him to say much since I knew I was dead wrong. In fact, I didn't really have a side to my story that was different than the company story. I do, however, feel warmed by the notion that you would have gone to bat for me but aren't there some cases when a steward's hands are tied?;)
 

Anonymous 12

Non active member
When I was fired, the steward was absolutely silent. But then again I didn't expect him to say much since I knew I was dead wrong. In fact, I didn't really have a side to my story that was different than the company story. I do, however, feel warmed by the notion that you would have gone to bat for me but aren't there some cases when a steward's hands are tied?;)
Yea but I liken those situations/chances/opportunities to being that guy in the rodeo who protects the cowboy. You are the cowboy I'm the guy who has to say something and the Business agent is the real brains behind the process. One thing I don't know if I've ever clarified is that I've had the opportunity to work with one of the smartest business agents in the United States of America. So I always know he's there to fall back on (really I'm always falling back on him) that makes the right decisions. No matter how good this guy is you can't always save the member but if you are a smart one you will save more people who don't have a chance than you will loose. I've seen it happen and it never ceases to amaze.

I'm so sorry that you had that experience. I know it worked out for you in the long run and I'm happy for you but it's a bad sinking feeling that is unfortunate.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
If management knew, then the 22.3 can not lie if asked, or they would be risking their own job, but that is not how I had read Dave's post on this.

They knew long before the driver pulled back in to the bldg. that night. Their suspicions were confirmed by the 22.3 and the final straw was when the driver failed to "fess up" and was walked out.
 

upschuck

Well-Known Member
They knew long before the driver pulled back in to the bldg. that night. Their suspicions were confirmed by the 22.3 and the final straw was when the driver failed to "fess up" and was walked out.
Whoever initiated the conversation between the 22.3 guy and management is my point. If you have suspicions, then you don't know.
 
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