Should a part-timer pay Union dues or wait until Full-time?

[InsideUPS]

I absolutely think we should pay them but I think it would be at least fair to scale them back a few dollars. I make 12 an hour so if I work my 17.5 that would be (190) ($210?) a week before taxes and my union dues are 32 dollars so I'd bring home around 125 dollars a week so it does really suck. I'd say when you start out at 8.50 the dues should be about 15 a month and then maybe increase it by 2 dollars a month for every raise you get. Then when a part timer moves to full time jump it up really high because then it wouldn't hurt as much. Just my 2 cents.

BearcatShane09....You bring up an EXCELLENT point about Union dues...although I think your math is slightly off. Many locals have a formula for Union dues....ours for example is (2.5 x hourly rate + $6.00). You mention working 17.5 hours. The number of hours worked is the main variable that our Union does not consider. Percentage wise, part-timers are paying far more in Union dues than full-timers.

For example:

1) Full Time Driver Working 5 x 9 hour days x $32/hour = Gross Amount of $1440 (Union Dues = $86.00) using 2.5 x hourly rate + $6.00 formula.

86/1440 = 5.97%


2) Part-Time BearcatShane Working 5 x 3.5 hour days x $12/hour = Gross Amount of $210 (Union Dues = $36) using (2.5 x hourly rate = $6.00)

36/210 = 17.14%

SUMMARY - Part-time employees are paying almost triple in Union dues than full-timers in terms of percentage.

 

[Re-Raise]

1) Full Time Driver Working 5 x 9 hour days x $32/hour = Gross Amount of $1440 (Union Dues = $86.00) using 2.5 x hourly rate + $6.00 formula.

86/1440 = 5.97%

Wait a minute. I am a full-time driver in local 710 and I only pay $17.25 a week in union dues. Are you telling me you pay $86 a week?

 

[Catatonic]

BearcatShane09....You bring up an EXCELLENT point about Union dues...although I think your math is slightly off. Many locals have a formula for Union dues....ours for example is (2.5 x hourly rate + $6.00). You mention working 17.5 hours. The number of hours worked is the main variable that our Union does not consider. Percentage wise, part-timers are paying far more in Union dues than full-timers.

For example:

1) Full Time Driver Working 5 x 9 hour days x $32/hour = Gross Amount of $1440 (Union Dues = $86.00) using 2.5 x hourly rate + $6.00 formula.

86/1440 = 5.97%


2) Part-Time BearcatShane Working 5 x 3.5 hour days x $12/hour = Gross Amount of $210 (Union Dues = $36) using (2.5 x hourly rate = $6.00)

36/210 = 17.14%

SUMMARY - Part-time employees are paying almost triple in Union dues than full-timers in terms of percentage.

Add to that that it is not progressive in nature.

Should a P/T person that qualifies for food stamps and is classified by the National government as "poor", pay the same percent as the drivers whose pay puts them in the top 10% of the US population?

My feeling has been that P/T at UPS really are oppressed compared to the Full-time UPS workforce.

It is a moral issue to me and it is equally immoral for the Teamsters and UPS.

 

[Re-Raise]

Add to that that it is not progressive in nature.

Should a P/T person that qualifies for food stamps and is classified by the National government as "poor", pay the same percent as the drivers whose pay puts them in the top 10% of the US population?

My feeling has been that P/T at UPS really are oppressed compared to the Full-time UPS workforce.

It is a moral issue to me and it is equally immoral for the Teamsters and UPS.

They are 2 very different jobs, requiring very different skill sets. The responsibilities of an inside part-time employee are very different than those of a full-time driver.

I know what I am talking about, I was part-time for 7 years.

 

[PT Car Washer]

They are 2 very different jobs, requiring very different skill sets. The responsibilities of an inside part-time employee are very different than those of a full-time driver.

I know what I am talking about, I was part-time for 7 years.

How about a FTer a PTer and an Article 22.3 working side by side?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Should a PTer pay union dues? Yes. Should a PTer (or Peak helper) pay an Inititation Fee? No---they can pay the fee if and when they go FT.

We pay 3 times our hourly in Upstate NY. As was mentioned above, the percentage paid (FT vs PT) is unfairly stacked against the PTers. What was not mentioned is that most FTers can write their dues off on their taxes while most PTers do not have the deductions to be able to do this.

 

[TooTechie]

I think dues should start for a part timer once they make seniority. The locals that make seasonal temps pay the $400-$600 initiation fees and dues when they have no hope of staying is wrong in my opinion, but this has been discussed ad nauseum. Once part timers make seniority they definitely should pay dues/initiation fees as they are benefiting from and are protected by the union.

 

[Catatonic]

They are 2 very different jobs, requiring very different skill sets. The responsibilities of an inside part-time employee are very different than those of a full-time driver.

I know what I am talking about, I was part-time for 7 years.

I did both too and yes a driver has more responsibility.

However, the inside P/T works harder physically with more wear and tear on the body on a daily basis.

The Package Delivery/Pickup driver job at UPS was my favorite job I ever had - tedious and boring but as far as manual labor jobs go, the best I ever had by a long shot.

 

[TooTechie]

Add to that that it is not progressive in nature.

Should a P/T person that qualifies for food stamps and is classified by the National government as "poor", pay the same percent as the drivers whose pay puts them in the top 10% of the US population?

My feeling has been that P/T at UPS really are oppressed compared to the Full-time UPS workforce.

It is a moral issue to me and it is equally immoral for the Teamsters and UPS.

You can't compare it by percentage. I just went full time a few months ago and my monthly union dues were only like $20-30 per month when I was part time. If you look at it from a percentage perspective it looks unjust for a part timer but you have to keep in mind for that piddly 20-30 a month they & their family are getting full medical, dental, etc which better puts it in perspective. While I was part time I never felt I was "oppressed" from a dues perspective. The pay was horrible, but when you factor in the benefits, the compensation is excellent for a part time position.

 

[Catatonic]

You can't compare it by percentage. I just went full time a few months ago and my monthly union dues were only like $20-30 per month when I was part time. If you look at it from a percentage perspective it looks unjust for a part timer but you have to keep in mind for that piddly 20-30 a month they & their family are getting full medical, dental, etc which better puts it in perspective. While I was part time I never felt I was "oppressed" from a dues perspective. The pay was horrible, but when you factor in the benefits, the compensation is excellent for a part time position.

So now that you got yours, screw the poor. You sound like a Republican.

Maybe UPS can buy them a cake on occasion and then you can say "Let them eat cake."

 

[InsideUPS]

Wait a minute. I am a full-time driver in local 710 and I only pay $17.25 a week in union dues. Are you telling me you pay $86 a week?

Sorry for the confusion Re-Raise...... to clarify......$86 per MONTH...... or $21.50/week...

 

[TooTechie]

So now that you got yours, screw the poor. You sound like a Republican.

Maybe UPS can buy them a cake on occasion and then you can say "Let them eat cake."

Perhaps you should read what I wrote again. I said I never felt oppressed as a part timer and that while the pay was horrible when you add in the benefits the compensation was excellent. How in the world did you make that jump to "screw the poor"???

 

[thedownhillEXPRESS]

from what i've heard, Fedex PTers have it slightly easier, and are paid better

no benefits of course though

Fedex PTers get the same insurance as full timers and yes a higher wage then UPS PTers.

Most of our PTers stay only for the benefits, but they sure aren't free.They would probably make out better with a UPS wage when factoring in the healthcare costs per week...

 

[Re-Raise]

I did both too and yes a driver has more responsibility.

However, the inside P/T works harder physically with more wear and tear on the body on a daily basis.

The Package Delivery/Pickup driver job at UPS was my favorite job I ever had - tedious and boring but as far as manual labor jobs go, the best I ever had by a long shot.

I would have to disagree with you on this. Picking up packages and moving them 10 ft into the proper position in a package car, is not as physically demanding as delivering them to the actual homes and businesses for 10 hours a day.

You handle maybe 3 to 4 times as many packages, depending on how many trucks you load, but you don't have to go very far with them. As a driver you have the added physical challenges that come with how many times you have to open and close the package car doors, and get in and out of the vehicle.

A lot of our injuries are shoulder and knee related.

My opinion on this may be skewed by the fact I was in my 20 s as a part-timer and I am now nearing 50.

 

[beentheredonethat]

A long time ago when I was in payroll, we had our largest hub have something like either a 200 or 400 dollar initiation fee (it's a long time ago). We, UPS, paid the initiation fee for the PT'ers since it was so much (based on the time). The local then doubled PT inititation fee. It's not about fairness with the union, it was about greed.

 

[Catatonic]

I would have to disagree with you on this. Picking up packages and moving them 10 ft into the proper position in a package car, is not as physically demanding as delivering them to the actual homes and businesses for 10 hours a day.

You handle maybe 3 to 4 times as many packages, depending on how many trucks you load, but you don't have to go very far with them. As a driver you have the added physical challenges that come with how many times you have to open and close the package car doors, and get in and out of the vehicle.

A lot of our injuries are shoulder and knee related.

My opinion on this may be skewed by the fact I was in my 20 s as a part-timer and I am now nearing 50.

Did you ever consider the possibility that most of the wear and tear on your shoulders came from your part-time years?

I only drove for a year but I worked in the hub for 3 years as a Loader/Unloader and as a Sorter.
I know other management people who worked P/T for several years and as a driver for 1 -3 years.
We all have shoulder and knee issues.

Something to think about.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Should a part-timer pay Union dues or wait until Full-time? What say you?

I am glad you asked this question.

Of course, if they expect to reap the rewards of collective bargaining and the protection that comes from Teamster representation.

You get what you pay for. Nothing in life is free.

yes we should, i couldn't imagine what kind of hell it would be without union representation.

We all know.... what it would be like.

As a PTer you never really face any high-risk situations where your job could be put in jeopardy with a mistake or bad decision.

And this "advice" is coming from an office secretary....

When I was part-time we had to pay full union dues. The same rate full-time employees payed.

I did the same.... Being a red-circled "pre" 82 employee.... Always paid full dues.

The trade off was.... 90 day pay progression.... and then full-rate of pay and benefits. Made the same hourly rate, as any full-timer.

If I understand my local correctly, my dues pays for the staff that administers benefits. Not paying dues would make it difficult for the local to pay the people that need to get that work done.

You understand it.

I believe that part-timers should pay Union dues based on the fact that they receive Union negotiated benefits.

Most of us, can agree on this point.

Having seen several part timers need representation in their first years for various reasons, I definitely feel they should be paying dues. If they are going to benefit and be protected by the collective bargaining agreement, they should be paying dues.

Sometimes, young people don't always make the best decision.... That doesn't mean they can't learn from a mistake.

Many locals have a formula for Union dues.

All Locals.... base their dues structure off the IBT Constitution.... And then.... Local Bylaws.

My feeling has been that P/T at UPS really are oppressed compared to the Full-time UPS workforce.

You might be right.

The inside P/T works harder physically with more wear and tear on the body on a daily basis.

Some members of this forum.... would take exception.... with that observation.



-Bug-

 

[TooTechie]

As far as whose job is more strenuous part time inside worker or full time driver...When I worked inside I had cushy & not so cushy jobs. Loading feeders was relatively strenuous but not as much as unloading feeders. Picking off at high volume was easy on most belts, picking off at low volume where stuff was backing up and you had to lift every heavy thing working at a fast pace stacking things 4' high was super strenuous. Sorting in the sort aisle was pretty low impact unless you had an ********* unloader who intentionally wanted to bury you. Driving the irreg train was probably the easiest job I did when I worked inside. Most of it was driving around or waiting behind other trains then 2 seconds of briefly lifting a 70+ then dropping it and sitting down again.

Driving a PC...I can't easily compare it because while the walking up the steep driveways and several flights of stairs and lugging heavy packages for long distances is strenuous, we get that break of sitting while driving to the next stop so I'm really not sure if either is more strenuous. I guess I'd have to say full time driver is more strenuous due to being out there 9-11 hours a day.

 

[InsideUPS]

BearcatShane09....You bring up an EXCELLENT point about Union dues...although I think your math is slightly off. Many locals have a formula for Union dues....ours for example is (2.5 x hourly rate + $6.00). You mention working 17.5 hours. The number of hours worked is the main variable that our Union does not consider. Percentage wise, part-timers are paying far more in Union dues than full-timers.

For example:

1) Full Time Driver Working 5 x 9 hour days x $32/hour = Gross Amount of $1440 X 4 weeks = $5760 (Union Dues = $86.00) using 2.5 x hourly rate + $6.00 formula.

86/5760 = 1.49%


2) Part-Time BearcatShane Working 5 x 3.5 hour days x $12/hour = Gross Amount of $210 X 4 weeks = $840 (Union Dues = $36) using (2.5 x hourly rate = $6.00)

36/840 = 4.28%

4.28/1.49 = 2.87

SUMMARY - Part-time employees are paying almost triple in Union dues than full-timers in terms of percentage.

Correction to my above post in BLUE. Union dues are monthly therefore while the ratio of full-time / part-time remains the same......the percentage of Union dues to Wages is significantly different. That's what happens when your wife is rushing you out the door to do errands : ) Don't these women realize the BC is more important?

Summary.....Union Dues are an excellent value for what "most" of us get in return. There is definitely room for improvement in regard to initiation fees for part-timers as many have mentioned...


also food for thought.....

Should a part-timer pay Union dues or wait until Full-time?
That is a question I have pondered.
I don't think I would pay dues as a part-timer but I would as a full-timer.

What say you?

What about paying a flat percentage of our weekly wages? Sort of like a "flat tax" for income taxes. For example:

2% Flat Union Due Rate: Based on Earned Wages

Full Time from Above $5760 x 2% = $115.20/month

Part-Time from Above $840 x 2% - $16.80/month

 

[stink219]

They are 2 very different jobs, requiring very different skill sets. The responsibilities of an inside part-time employee are very different than those of a full-time driver.

I know what I am talking about, I was part-time for 7 years.

I did both too and yes a driver has more responsibility.

However, the inside P/T works harder physically with more wear and tear on the body on a daily basis.

The Package Delivery/Pickup driver job at UPS was my favorite job I ever had - tedious and boring but as far as manual labor jobs go, the best I ever had by a long shot.

Interesting. What year did you stop driving? PT is more physically demanding then FT? Is this based on an hourly or cumulative basis?
To answer your original question, if any employee that wants to benefit from any union negotiated contracts, benefits or defending of Weingarten rights should pay dues. Conversely, a RTW employee who doesn't pay dues should forfeit any and all of unions contributions towards his employment. RTW was constructed for only 1 reason, the bust the union.