Side Deals with Management

[stink219]

Seeing as how the contract does not (at least in our supplement) does not specify seniority rights concerning who is asked to go home first (it's more a courtesy to the senior driver), isn't any and all instances where this is done (provided it's not in the supplement) in effect a 'side-deal'?

Seniority is based on earning potential not loss. By right, the more seniority, the better chance you have for more money. Only casuals should be sent home. If you show up ready to work, they MUST pay you. If they ASK you to go home and you comply, they don't have to pay you.

 

[Brownslave688]

Did you happen to track any of the packages that you brought back? I would be very curious if they were exception scanned rather than delivered.

No but they got delivered an air driver was hopping in my truck to run them out to the guy that was supposed to help me when I left.

 

[Integrity]

A contract is a guideline, not a bible. It does not and was never meant to flesh EVERY SINGLE POSSIBLE scenario that comes up, and even ehere it does (like the aforementioned requesting 8hr days, or the "must take lunch between 3rd and 5th hour etc.), provided no one is immediately affected outside the two parties (driver and mgr) and nothing technically illegal going on, real life and flexibility should happen.

And enough with the 'yellow drivers too afraid to stand up to mgmt'! I learned a lesson a long time ago: life is full of compromises; you pick your battles. I've been fired 3 times from this company; two times they had me dead-to-rights and the third time i was a rookie driver who didnt know nothin', but had been an all-star preloader. 'Standing my ground' on when i took my lunch and whining about other drivers blowing their money away by running their lunches did not save my job; putting my head down, getting it done, being known for having a smile when i shouldnt have one, being there willing to help when someone fell into a hard time, that saved me, and it came from the mouths from those who fired me, and really had nothing standing between them booting me out the door, not even the union. Layoff the rhetoric! It's tiring, and you aint getting anyone on your side with it.

ApettyJ,

A collective bargaining agreement or labor contract is not a guideline it is a written and is legally enforceable.

All UPS employees both management and hourly should seek to honor the whole contract that has been agreed upon by representatives of both groups.

Every person of integrity should seek to keep their agreements, all of their agreements.

Why were you fired?

Sincerely,
I

 

[Catatonic]

A contract is a guideline, not a bible.

OK folks, we got ourselves a good candidate for management!

 

[clarnzz]

Not sure if this would be considered side deals since I guess the only benefit I get is less harrassment than the average Joe.

If I have bid a route for a week and they need me run a differant one due to lack of area knowledge of other drivers I will agree if it's equal or more favorable than the route I had bid.

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

Stink, I have no doubt that if you and I were face-to-face in the hub right now, you'd tell me exactly how you feel. That being the case, you'd call another driver out of his name, abusively? You know how UPS feels about physical AND verbal abuse? Can you honestly say you always "follow the rules"?

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

Integrity, after I posted my comment and while reviewing it, I realized I had erred in my take on the contract vs a bible; in fact, I had them flipped. Thought about editing the line out, but it was already late, I had been doing this for far too long, way past my bedtime; I figured I'd just deal with it and eat whatever crow came my way in the discussion today.

Hoax, I never had a desire to be a manager or a supervisor; don't really have a desire to oversee anyone. My role in this organization was always meant to be a driver. My philosophy that you interpret as a manager's perspective is because I always try to see things from the other person's POV, see what is the goal they have for me, why they have it, and then adjust according to my abilities, or what i may perceive my abilities to be (sometimes I am challenged and made to grow in my perspective of my capabilities).

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

Integrity, why do you ask about my terminations? Of what benefit is it to you (and I ask out of curiosity, not defensively)?

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

I am still curious as to how taking lunch at a time that works better for my route is "disadvantaging" someone, or not going to my steward first in asking for my 8 hr request.

 

[Catatonic]

Stink, I have no doubt that if you and I were face-to-face in the hub right now, you'd tell me exactly how you feel. That being the case, you'd call another driver out of his name, abusively? You know how UPS feels about physical AND verbal abuse? Can you honestly say you always "follow the rules"?

Integrity, why do you ask about my terminations? Of what benefit is it to you (and I ask out of curiosity, not defensively)?

I am still curious as to how taking lunch at a time that works better for my route is "disadvantaging" someone, or not going to my steward first in asking for my 8 hr request.

You ask a lot of questions Boy!

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

In relation to another thread you started, Hoax, THIS is why I come to BC: to learn, to satisfy my curiosity about UPS (and FedEx), and be given info to chew on so I may grow as a person and as an employee at UPS. And, if I can, I like to share what has helped me make it this far...as a ten year rookie come Sept. 3rd (funny, when I told the driver whose route was the first I ever did and who mentored me how long it had been-it is he who calls me 'rookie'-he said "Wow! I guess you ain't a rookie anymore1" But you can call me 'boy'...I feel young again [and in the grand scheme of things, still am!]).

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

Seniority is based on earning potential not loss. By right, the more seniority, the better chance you have for more money. Only casuals should be sent home. If you show up ready to work, they MUST pay you. If they ASK you to go home and you comply, they don't have to pay you.

I know and agree with this...but this isn't what I am talking about. I am talking about a driver on a bidded route getting wind that a driver with less seniority is about to be sent home and demanding that based on seniority he should have the option first to go home. It happens all the time; it's why drivers sneak around when they're told they are extra; I've heard (I think on BC) of drivers carrying around the extra boards to make it look like they were going out, all so some senior driver wouldn't bump them. But in reality, the minute the center team acquiesced to the senior driver's demands/request, both involved just participated in an extra-contractural agreement, and seeing how seniority is one of the most appreciated benefits of being in a union, many of the "follow the rules" crowd have probably done this (some, like upssteward728 or anonymous I don't get that vibe, but I could be wrong) . I've been bumped before, but didn't know any better so thought that was how the contract was worded. I've never bumped anyone in such a manner (at least knowingly; I believe I have come in and asked to be made extra, but not just because I wanted the day and a driver with less seniority was being sent home), and now that I know the truth, I doubt I ever will. Doesn't seem fair, in a different kind of way from not taking my lunch between 11-1, you know?

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

ApettyJ,

All UPS employees both management and hourly should seek to honor the whole contract that has been agreed upon by representatives of both groups.

Every person of integrity should seek to keep their agreements, all of their agreements.

Ah, but this is where I disagree when it comes to integrity. People are imperfect, situations always change, the day is dynamic-I like to tell people that my load tells me how to best serve my customers, not the other way around. Integrity speaks to something far larger than just one rule or one "side agreement". I'll use some examples you may be familiar with the.

You know of the account where Jesus healed the woman who had been plagued with the flow of blood for 12 years, despite her having to break "the rules" concerning quarantining oneself from others when on the menstrual cycle? And this wasn't a case of Jesus sidestepping some man-made rule added to bare a burden on the people; his father in heaven gave that rule to the Israelites long ago. How was Jesus able to keep his integrity to his father, while at the same time extending his father's love to the woman by touching her, as opposed to condemning her to death, which his father's law demanded?

Think about when his apostles walked through the grain fields and collected grain for themselves to eat...on the Sabbath! Jesus defended his apostles from those who criticized them, even though they seemed to have "the rules" on their side.

Studying the example of Jesus has taught me a lot about integrity, what it really means, to whom I should be focusing on showing integrity in the first place, so that I may live as a decent human being. A command I treasure is to 'exercise justice (be fair), love kindness, and be modest (know my limitations) in serving Jehovah God.' I do my best to imitate the example of the most loving, fair-minded, honorable man to walk the earth-one who knew when to apply the law, and when leniency is necessary (not for convenience, not for selfish motive).

In the end I am trying to give my employer a fair day's work-not for a fair day's pay, but because I am expected to by the one I desire to serve. I try to be fair and kind in dealing with my customers, but I also acknowledge I have limits in what I can do. I know my limits on my route, and I cannot justly and kindly perform my duties if I say no matter what, my lunch will be this time. I cannot control air commit times, I can no longer (seemingly) control pickup times with the +/- 15 min craze. I can, however, ask the other party in this contract (my management team) for a mutually beneficial arrangement: an alternate time so that I take my lunch (which was the spirit in which that time was set-there is nothing special about 11-1, other than everyone else in the entire working world takes their lunch then, so all the good spots are crowded and I waste most my lunch waiting. The Union-and company for legal and safety reasons-wanted to make sure I am not screwed out of my lunch; when I ask to take it at another time, it is taken, and I am not screwed), while the company is given a set time that doesn't blow up their operations (again, the spirit of the contract: the company benefits from the set time because they know they won't have a burned-out driver-he is rested-AND that I won't "exercise my right to a lunch"at a time not conducive to me fulfilling my obligations to UPS-say, 10:00am, while I still have air to be off-loaded and packages with special commit times-like foot locker). In such arrangement, who is disadvantaged? My cover? Nevermind that if I am running the route successfully and in a manner with the least amount of stress it might be prudent on his part to follow my lead, if he wants to exercise his right to a lunch between 11-1 as granted in the contract, will management stop him (can they)? Will a rational person get upset with him? (And I don't know what centers you guys are in, but for UPS to stay in business with all the teamwork and relying on one another necessary to get someone's letter from LA to Philly, or a cello from Thailand to Boston, MOST of the people in management and/or operations CANNOT be irrational monsters; flexibility and adjustments will be needed-don't let a misguided few jade your view of everyone!) They will demand the same as of me: get it done. And if he thinks something is off he can request a ride. I have many times before; I welcome them, as it is an opportunity for learning, for myself AND the supervisor.

 

[Integrity]

Integrity, why do you ask about my terminations? Of what benefit is it to you (and I ask out of curiosity, not defensively)?

ApettyJ,

Just curious.

Pehaps a way to get to know more about you.

Sincerely,
I

 

[Rawrzxor]

I have an agreement with the full time sup that I leave after 5 hours of working (since that was how long I was told I would be working when I was ing hired, not 7, 8, 9). I bust my ass, pop 350 every day--unless I do a lot of irregs which both pops my pph and tires me since I'm only 135. My top is 500 pph, which I thought was pretty kew. Point being that I work, and I'm not just looking to get off early.

Incidentally, coworkers *still* get pissed off at me for leaving 10, 20 minutes early. Like seriously? I'm top 3 in my area, and they're going to bitch that I leave a bit early--I have a deal with the sup. -____-;; And, everyone else comes in 2, 3 hours late on Monday/Tuesday, since start time is 2, 3 hours early.

Well, went off topic, but there you go.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

What makes you so special that you get to leave early every day?

 

[AndUPSER]

Why should they be mad? A fool loads like crazy, while they kick back, and they get an hour or two extra pay. Sounds like they are getting the better deal.

 

[bleedinbrown58]

What makes you so special that you get to leave early every day?

Agreed, if I had seniority over you, I'd ask to leave 10 min early twice a week just so you couldn't.

 

[PiedmontSteward]

I have an agreement with the full time sup that I leave after 5 hours of working (since that was how long I was told I would be working when I was ing hired, not 7, 8, 9). I bust my ass, pop 350 every day--unless I do a lot of irregs which both pops my pph and tires me since I'm only 135. My top is 500 pph, which I thought was pretty kew. Point being that I work, and I'm not just looking to get off early.

Incidentally, coworkers *still* get pissed off at me for leaving 10, 20 minutes early. Like seriously? I'm top 3 in my area, and they're going to bitch that I leave a bit early--I have a deal with the sup. -____-;; And, everyone else comes in 2, 3 hours late on Monday/Tuesday, since start time is 2, 3 hours early.

Well, went off topic, but there you go.

For the record, that's an extra contract agreement.

 

[Dragon]

People are so lazy they do not want to work 5 hours. No offense meant to Rawrzxor. .he'll if the hub is working longer than 5 hours there are bigger issues.