Signing Documents

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by BrownDead, Jul 12, 2010.

  1. BrownDead

    BrownDead New Member

    Our center is slinging document after document for drivers to sign. Examples include,Proper DR, No backing, Stay out of driveways (unless approved), Bulkhead door security,..etc. We are getting telematics soon, is this just documentation to aid the terminations when telematics gets in place?
  2. Dagoof

    Dagoof Member

    Take a copy of everything you do sign. I didnt do that once and it came back to bite me I brought up the sheet I signed they told me they dont remember that one.
  3. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    I dont sign anything except (a) my paycheck (b) the DVIR (c) a pickup report or high-value paperwork from a shipper and (d) my COD turn-in envelope.

    Anything else you sign will be used against you.
  4. lvgolfer962

    lvgolfer962 Member

    im like soberups, but ive been told/threatened by sups about so called safety related ones i have to sign????
  5. 22.34life

    22.34life Active Member

    very true,dont sign jack just put r.t.s on everything.when you sign something especially something in regards to discipline your admiting guilt.
  6. Richard Harrow

    Richard Harrow Would you pay a dime to see this?

    Tell them you would like to review the document with either your shop steward or your lawyer. Then proceed to throw it in the trash. They already taught you everything you needed to know about doing the job in driver school.
  7. grgrcr88

    grgrcr88 No It's not green grocer!

    You do not have to sign anything unless it is a condition of employement. These include DOT items, Drivers liscence certs and haz-mat cert. Ask if its a condition of employement, if they say yes get a steward sign the form and put under threat of termination, if they say no, say thanks and throw it away.
  8. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    This issue has always been one of those overstated union power trips. when the sup asks you to sign he is not asking you to agree with the material but to verify the conversation reviewing the document took place.

    you refuse to sign to deny agreement with the form but in the process you verify the conversation took place which is what the sup wanted.

    when the panel see's a lot of forms in your file that show refused to sign they then get a mental picture of someone who constantly buts heads with management instructions.
  9. dave991

    dave991 Lead, don't follow.

    unfortunatley tie guy is just a bit mis-informed about the panel situation. The company is only allowed to show documents relating to the specific reason you are there. If you have filed a grievance it is only about the grievance. The only way you go to panel with the company as the moving party is if your facing suspension or termination, in wich case if its about signing documents both parties will agree for you to sign "under protest" that means you dont agree or disagree withthe document just that the company wants you to sign it. The only way your entire portfolio goes in front of someone is if your deadlocked at multiple levels and it goes to arbitration, which is expensive for both sides and they try to not go that route, and the arbitrator is not a panel or company/union employee.
  10. Dragon

    Dragon Package Center Manager

    Nope, Tie is right. We also use them at local level hearings. Make's it kind of hard to defend yourself when you say you never have been trained....and we whip at all these documents you refused to sign. All of a sudden you start thinking about the mortgage and your family and how you are going to pay the bills.
  11. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    No kidding. you mean the documents have to pertain to the case presented. wow I didn't know that , I thought I could bring anything I wanted to the panel. yuck yuck you sure straightened me out. :happy2:
  12. thessalonian13

    thessalonian13 Active Member

  13. FracusBrown

    FracusBrown Ponies and Planes

  14. FracusBrown

    FracusBrown Ponies and Planes

    You actually can bring anything you want if the other side is inept enough to bring up a questions that allow it to be brought into evidence. For example: a warning letter more than 9 months old would normally not be admissible. If the other side says "this employee has never had a warning" you can bring all the past warning letters into evidence to disprove the statement. Theoretically it should only be applied to demonstrate dishonesty, but you can't erase the effects of what has been heard.
  16. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    I dont even write "RTS" on them. I leave them blank and either hand them back to the management person or I toss them in the trash. He is certainly free to write whatever he wants on them, but I'm not going to actively participate in the process. I am more than willing to read the material and work as instructed, but I am not going to help the company document its case for my eventual termination.
  17. anonymous4

    anonymous4 Active Member

    What is the right approach for the documents we are asked to sign every day? Observation forms for instance cannot be given out at 100%, so there will always be a violation the sup finds or creates to bring it down before he asks for your signature. This leaves you open to whatever made up criticism the supervisors fabricated that day to get his paperwork completed. It also leaves the company open to say you have a history of doing said fabricated incident, so signing that is not something I'm interested in. Neither is RTS if I am still admitting wrong doing. You say if you went to panel and they plop down 200 documents all with RTS on it, it looks bad, I say I have never signed or agreed to anything you are accusing me of doing wrong over the years. My main point, most sups just write "RTS" on the forms they handout knowing who signs and who doesn't ahead of time. So if my supervisor wrote RTS himself, how can that accurately confirm my acknowledgement of what is being discussed?

    So, what to do with all of these documents? RTS, don't sign or just sign and move on?
  18. rocket man

    rocket man Well-Known Member

    you dont have to tell them nothing you put at bottom R.T.S. NOT ONE MORE THING SHOULD BE SAID R, T. S. R.T.S
  19. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    Sign and move on.
  20. Buck Fifty

    Buck Fifty New Member

    Dont even put RTS on it, just hand it back to them. Art. 10 I believe.