Signing missort reviews

[anonymous4]

I'm on a sort isle and there is constantly a paper going around with previous missorts. We are informed to sign this in acknowledgment. The thing is, I end up signing these "missort reviews" when I wasn't even working on the sort isle that specific day, but helping elsewhere in the building. What is the right thing to do here? Do these matter?

 

[over9five]

RTS. Refuse To Sign.

Check with your shop steward first.

 

[scratch]

If I sign anything, I write what really happened with that incident. If you were not working on the sort aisle that day, I would write that down and initial it.

 

[TheDick]

I wouldnt sign anything or sign RTS cuz if your not sure if it was true or not, you can be sure UPS will bring it back out during a labor/Busi. agent meeting if you mess up big. Dont sign anything. Not even the turkey roster!!!!!! Oh yeah no more turkey.

 

[TearsInRain]

ask them if they're asking you to sign or ordering you to sign

if they say they're ordering you, write "under threat of termination" and sign your name, then go to your shop steward and grieve the hell out of them

 

[Local804guy4life]

This is simple. Just say RTS and request to see a shop steward. They cannot make you sign anything. In my building the Nassau Hub this manager tries to make his own rules and comes up with his own contract lingo. It's a joke. Management on the other hand well they have to sign anything and everything and I hear they are forced to do write ups in other peoples words and then sign them. I over heard two full time supervisors talking and they were complaining how illegal it is to be forced to write something on a piece of paper that you don't agree with and then have to sign it, and they are management. It's crazy and corrupt which is why we should be thankful we have a union protecting us. I wouldn't sign anything if I were you.

 

[soberups]

Anything you sign will be used against you if at all possible.

From the moment each one of us is hired by UPS, the company begins documenting a case for our eventual termination. Dont help them by participating in the process.

 

[Loufan]

I've never seen anyone get fired for missorts. Now PPH and sometimes attendance are a different story.

 

[grgrcr88]

Signing or not signing is your choice, it can be beneficial as stated by Scratch to write your side of the story on the document. I however agree with most on here. I never sign anything unless I am told it is a condition of my employment.

The only things I know of that must be signed are DOT cards and Haz-Mat certifications.

 

[pretzel_man]

Anything you sign will be used against you if at all possible.

From the moment each one of us is hired by UPS, the company begins documenting a case for our eventual termination. Dont help them by participating in the process.

There are some poor managers who believe that from the day they are hired, Teamsters start trying to figure out how to cheat and steal from the company. Both of your perspectives are incorrect.

I would prefer to not participate in the process too, but its one created by UPS and the Teamsters. The process of progressive discipline requires documentation. I wish I were omniscient and knew for sure that an incident would never occur again. Then the documentation would be unnessary.

Or, if I could not document at all, and then accelerate discipline on second or third offences. Of course, I would need perfect memory for that.

If we owned our own company, we would not need to document... We could discilipline those that we felt not doing their best. We would not need to use a consistent standard for each employee. Of course, the process we both created does not allow for that.

So, I must document. The process demands it. I do think it stupid to document a random, one time situation. It wastes time and effort and I do not think the process demands that.

UPS does not start the process to begin planning your termination. The company is not looking to terminate employees (at least not the majority of them). Its just the necessary evil from the process we created.

 

[soberups]

There are some poor managers who believe that from the day they are hired, Teamsters start trying to figure out how to cheat and steal from the company. Both of your perspectives are incorrect.

I would prefer to not participate in the process too, but its one created by UPS and the Teamsters. The process of progressive discipline requires documentation. I wish I were omniscient and knew for sure that an incident would never occur again. Then the documentation would be unnessary.

Or, if I could not document at all, and then accelerate discipline on second or third offences. Of course, I would need perfect memory for that.

If we owned our own company, we would not need to document... We could discilipline those that we felt not doing their best. We would not need to use a consistent standard for each employee. Of course, the process we both created does not allow for that.

So, I must document. The process demands it. I do think it stupid to document a random, one time situation. It wastes time and effort and I do not think the process demands that.

UPS does not start the process to begin planning your termination. The company is not looking to terminate employees (at least not the majority of them). Its just the necessary evil from the process we created.

I 100% agree with everything you just said.

That does not change the fact that it is never in the best interests of the employee to sign any sort of documentation that could be used in a disciplinary process against him.

Too often, what I see as a steward is that the company is less interested in solving the underlying problem than it is in simply assigning blame for it.

Consider the issue of misloads by a preloader. Is the preloader really failing to follow the proper methods? Or is he/she simply being pressured into maintaining a workpace that makes following those methods impossible?

My car is loaded from an outdoor MDU that the company jury-rigged together due to our building being horribly overcrowded. There are no stack tables in this MDU, the lighting is poor, and the belt that feeds it frequently jams up due to it being too small for the number and flow rate of packages that are sent out there. Irregs are hauled over from the sort aisle in carts and left to sit outside in the rain before being manhandled up the stairs and thru a door at the end, where they must then be pushed against the direction of the belt.

A preloader working under these conditions cannot possibly be expected to work as efficiently as one who has been given a proper job setup, yet the expectations placed upon him/her are not adjusted to account for the conditions. So the result is chronically poor load qualty and a high misload rate.

The underlying problems are obvious to anyone with a brain. But the company has no intention of ever solving them, because doing so would require taking responsibility for the situation and spending money to fix it. So instead, the preloaders are "written up" and threatened with the same disciplinary action as those who have been given a proper setup. As long as blame can be assigned and someone's job threatened, there is no need to ever actually fix the problem.

 

[pretzel_man]

I 100% agree with everything you just said.

That does not change the fact that it is never in the best interests of the employee to sign any sort of documentation that could be used in a disciplinary process against him.

Too often, what I see as a steward is that the company is less interested in solving the underlying problem than it is in simply assigning blame for it.

Consider the issue of misloads by a preloader. Is the preloader really failing to follow the proper methods? Or is he/she simply being pressured into maintaining a workpace that makes following those methods impossible?

My car is loaded from an outdoor MDU that the company jury-rigged together due to our building being horribly overcrowded. There are no stack tables in this MDU, the lighting is poor, and the belt that feeds it frequently jams up due to it being too small for the number and flow rate of packages that are sent out there. Irregs are hauled over from the sort aisle in carts and left to sit outside in the rain before being manhandled up the stairs and thru a door at the end, where they must then be pushed against the direction of the belt.

A preloader working under these conditions cannot possibly be expected to work as efficiently as one who has been given a proper job setup, yet the expectations placed upon him/her are not adjusted to account for the conditions. So the result is chronically poor load qualty and a high misload rate.

The underlying problems are obvious to anyone with a brain. But the company has no intention of ever solving them, because doing so would require taking responsibility for the situation and spending money to fix it. So instead, the preloaders are "written up" and threatened with the same disciplinary action as those who have been given a proper setup. As long as blame can be assigned and someone's job threatened, there is no need to ever actually fix the problem.

Its true that sometimes poor management chooses to assign blame instead of fixing the problem. I have seen that of course.

Its also true that our preloader with a poor job setup cannot perform as well an others with a proper job setup.

He / she is only one of 20,000+ preloaders in UPS. I have not problem pointing out the poor manager or preloader with the poor job setup.

I do have a problem taking those situations and saying that its UPS' intent to create the situation to fire employees.

Its a very rare case (from my perspective) where a manager is looking to fire employees. Just like its a rare case where an employee is trying to take advantage of the company.

Most hourlies and management (and the company) just want to do a good job.

 

[Bubblehead]

Cyberworld

There are some poor managers who believe that from the day they are hired, Teamsters start trying to figure out how to cheat and steal from the company. Both of your perspectives are incorrect.

I would prefer to not participate in the process too, but its one created by UPS and the Teamsters. The process of progressive discipline requires documentation. I wish I were omniscient and knew for sure that an incident would never occur again. Then the documentation would be unnessary.

Or, if I could not document at all, and then accelerate discipline on second or third offences. Of course, I would need perfect memory for that.

If we owned our own company, we would not need to document... We could discilipline those that we felt not doing their best. We would not need to use a consistent standard for each employee. Of course, the process we both created does not allow for that.

So, I must document. The process demands it. I do think it stupid to document a random, one time situation. It wastes time and effort and I do not think the process demands that.

UPS does not start the process to begin planning your termination. The company is not looking to terminate employees (at least not the majority of them). Its just the necessary evil from the process we created.

Real World

I 100% agree with everything you just said.

That does not change the fact that it is never in the best interests of the employee to sign any sort of documentation that could be used in a disciplinary process against him.

Too often, what I see as a steward is that the company is less interested in solving the underlying problem than it is in simply assigning blame for it.

Consider the issue of misloads by a preloader. Is the preloader really failing to follow the proper methods? Or is he/she simply being pressured into maintaining a workpace that makes following those methods impossible?

My car is loaded from an outdoor MDU that the company jury-rigged together due to our building being horribly overcrowded. There are no stack tables in this MDU, the lighting is poor, and the belt that feeds it frequently jams up due to it being too small for the number and flow rate of packages that are sent out there. Irregs are hauled over from the sort aisle in carts and left to sit outside in the rain before being manhandled up the stairs and thru a door at the end, where they must then be pushed against the direction of the belt.

A preloader working under these conditions cannot possibly be expected to work as efficiently as one who has been given a proper job setup, yet the expectations placed upon him/her are not adjusted to account for the conditions. So the result is chronically poor load qualty and a high misload rate.

The underlying problems are obvious to anyone with a brain. But the company has no intention of ever solving them, because doing so would require taking responsibility for the situation and spending money to fix it. So instead, the preloaders are "written up" and threatened with the same disciplinary action as those who have been given a proper setup. As long as blame can be assigned and someone's job threatened, there is no need to ever actually fix the problem.

 

[brownmonster]

Its true that sometimes poor management chooses to assign blame instead of fixing the problem. I have seen that of course.

Its also true that our preloader with a poor job setup cannot perform as well an others with a proper job setup.

He / she is only one of 20,000+ preloaders in UPS. I have not problem pointing out the poor manager or preloader with the poor job setup.

I do have a problem taking those situations and saying that its UPS' intent to create the situation to fire employees.

Its a very rare case (from my perspective) where a manager is looking to fire employees. Just like its a rare case where an employee is trying to take advantage of the company.

Most hourlies and management (and the company) just want to do a good job.

As much as the company agitates me I have to agree. I've seen warning letters handed out to one guy and not to another for the same offense. It is pretty hard to get fired. You have to work at it.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Thanks for your responses - it is appreciated. I have only been around for 2 months or so. I am new. Even so, I consider myself the best sorter on my aisle and work hard from start to finish. I've been getting moved around a lot now that I am off packet and I am getting pissed off that as I am bounced around as needed, I end up having to sign missort papers from days I wasn't in that particular sort isle. I don't have any personal issues with management right now, so I have been signing just to avoid stepping on toes.

Last week, my last name was up on the dry-erase board with three misloads. This was for one day. That same morning, I loaded three trucks for two hours and was moved to another area after that. Before I left the area, I thoroughly checked all three trucks to ensure there were no misloads.

It's an embarrasing blame game, plain and simple- and the company will assign blame to those who are the easily to document. For all you know, those same misloads you had were probably assigned to someone else originally and they refused to sign off.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Thanks for your responses - it is appreciated. I have only been around for 2 months or so. I am new. Even so, I consider myself the best sorter on my aisle and work hard from start to finish. I've been getting moved around a lot now that I am off packet and I am getting pissed off that as I am bounced around as needed, I end up having to sign missort papers from days I wasn't in that particular sort isle. I don't have any personal issues with management right now, so I have been signing just to avoid stepping on toes.

Last week, my last name was up on the dry-erase board with three misloads. This was for one day. That same morning, I loaded three trucks for two hours and was moved to another area after that. Before I left the area, I thoroughly checked all three trucks to ensure there were no misloads. Those same three trucks were loaded by another loader for the next 4 hours.

It's an embarrasing blame game, plain and simple- and the company will assign blame to those who are the most easy to document. For all you know, those same misloads you had were probably assigned to someone else originally and they refused to sign off; or you were the volunteer scapegoat; either way, don't sign!

 

[soberups]

Last week, my last name was up on the dry-erase board with three misloads. This was for one day. That same morning, I loaded three trucks for two hours and was moved to another area after that. Before I left the area, I thoroughly checked all three trucks to ensure there were no misloads. Those same three trucks were loaded by another loader for the next 4 hours.

It's an embarrasing blame game, plain and simple- and the company will assign blame to those who are the most easy to document. For all you know, those same misloads you had were probably assigned to someone else originally and they refused to sign off; or you were the volunteer scapegoat; either way, don't sign!

That is an Art 37 violation, over-supervision and harassment. Grieve it. The company does not have the right to post yours or any other employees potential disciplinary issues on a whiteboard for all to see. Public humiliation is not a legitimate or appropriate management technique for improving a persons job performance.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

That is an Art 37 violation, over-supervision and harassment. Grieve it. The company does not have the right to post yours or any other employees potential disciplinary issues on a whiteboard for all to see. Public humiliation is not a legitimate or appropriate management technique for improving a persons job performance.

The stewards will laugh at that one.

 

[grgrcr88]

The stewards will laugh at that one.

I'm not laughing. You should grieve it. We used to have a manager that would do similar things, posting the least best drivers and their stats on a whit board. A couple of grievances and bye, bye white board!!

The company gets away with enough intimidation and scare tactics, public humiliation should never be tolerated!!!