Silly things your center manager says...

[Jackburton]

You're wrong. If it affects what I do on a daily basis in that package car, it's a safety item. Almost everything I write up is safety.

Article 18 section 2. You're welcome.

 

[Alexcross774]

1. The fact that your title under your name says "the new generation of sups" tells me right away that your wrong.....all the time.

2. When I'm told by my management team to "use camera as a third mirror", that tells me it's a safety issue. Unless you're telling me I don't need mirrors now too.

I think you miss the point. There has to be a standard for what is unsafe or safe. You wouldn't want to take your personal car for a State Inspection and have them give you a rejection sticker for something that wasn't covered by state law would you? The fact that by UPS standards the camera isn't something you Red Tag a vehicle for is true. Look at what I said next in my first post, I do believe it was on how to get your mechanic to help you out...
Anytime you want to know what "The new generation of Sups" means feel free to ask. It's probably not what you think.

 

[slingblade]

If it is not a safety item, then why install them at all?

On our Backing Methods, the backing camera is meant to be used as a "third mirror."

So why even include it in our "DOK" knowledge if it's not really meant to be used for safety at all?

If it's relevant to safety, than it is a safety item, is it not?

and they said I was simple.

 

[Jackburton]

I think you miss the point. There has to be a standard for what is unsafe or safe. You wouldn't want to take your personal car for a State Inspection and have them give you a rejection sticker for something that wasn't covered by state law would you? The fact that by UPS standards the camera isn't something you Red Tag a vehicle for is true. Look at what I said next in my first post, I do believe it was on how to get your mechanic to help you out...
Anytime you want to know what "The new generation of Sups" means feel free to ask. It's probably not what you think.

A non working piece of safety equipment is a reason to red tag a vehicle. There isn't a check-a-box down the DVIR as to what's safe and what's unsafe. The standard you are looking for is what the driver feels comfortable with.

Let me turn the question around ask if you backed up into something and you had decided that going out without a back up camera was safe, would you disagree with a sup for telling you that you never should have taken that vehicle out? Would you ever take a vehicle out with the driver side mirror missing? Would you ever think about if you backed up over a child if you would have simply taken one of the other four vehicles that were there with cameras, would that child still be alive?

 

[upscat]

A non working piece of safety equipment is a reason to red tag a vehicle. There isn't a check-a-box down the DVIR as to what's safe and what's unsafe. The standard you are looking for is what the driver feels comfortable with.

Let me turn the question around ask if you backed up into something and you had decided that going out without a back up camera was safe, would you disagree with a sup for telling you that you never should have taken that vehicle out? Would you ever take a vehicle out with the driver side mirror missing? Would you ever think about if you backed up over a child if you would have simply taken one of the other four vehicles that were there with cameras, would that child still be alive?

The problem here as I see it is you are taking an enhancement and turning it into a critical safety item. There are no DoT requirements for a backup camera. People have backed up safely using the two side mirrors safely for years. Ups has always trained to back driver side so you have a clear view behind your car. someone then thought a backup camera might improve the backing results. that backup improvement is not required and not a redtag requirement.

 

[rod]

The backup camera is one of the single most important safety items on the package car. Right behind brakes, steering, transmission, mirrors, and safety belt. Alex, I don't care what DOT standards are or whatever. Talking reality, the camera literally prevents deaths from occurring. The cam covers a massive blind spot that a kid could sneak into.
I can't imaging the accidents that must have occurred back when these things didn't have came

.

we always "backed by sound"

 

[TooTechie]

The problem here as I see it is you are taking an enhancement and turning it into a critical safety item.

I hope you're playing devil's advocate because what you just posted is absurd. In the 70s we didn't have seat belts and didn't get air bags until the 90s but do you not see these "enhancements" now as "critical" safety item"s in your vehicle?

Bottom line is that UPS decided that the backup cameras were important for safety and added them to every package car for a reason.


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[cachsux]

The backup camera is one of the single most important safety items on the package car. Right behind brakes, steering, transmission, mirrors, and safety belt. Alex, I don't care what DOT standards are or whatever. Talking reality, the camera literally prevents deaths from occurring. The cam covers a massive blind spot that a kid could sneak into.

I can't imaging the accidents that must have occurred back when these things didn't have cameras.

Back then we had to rely on scanning the backing area. If it didn't work we'd have cameras on the back of our trailers that are 3 times the length.

 

[cachsux]

I hope you're playing devil's advocate because what you just posted is absurd. In the 70s we didn't have seat belts and didn't get air bags until the 90s but do you not see these "enhancements" now as "critical" safety item"s in your vehicle?

Bottom line is that UPS decided that the backup cameras were important for safety and added them to every package car for a reason.


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Bottom line is that UPS decided that further litigation could be avoided by putting the back up cameras on every package car.

 

[OPTION3]

I am not wrong. A safety item would be a item that is deemed a safety Item by DOT standards for the Federal Annual Inspection that most UPS vehicles fall under, or State Inspection standards depending on where you are.

what does DOT say about a sharp protruding edge on the bulkhead door?….Dot standards (as pertains to a package car) are not all inclusive. Many things can be unsafe on a package car and the DOT may say nothing about them

 

[JL 0513]

we always "backed by sound"

When you heard an impact or a scream you would then know to stop?

 

[Indecisi0n]

When I see posts/arguments like this I can't help but start to believe that maybe some of us really are just dumb truck drivers.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Alex Cross is right---the camera is not an essential safety item and as such the pkg car is safe to operate without a working monitor. Now, that's not to say that the cameras have not made us safer drivers--they have--they are not a required piece of safety equipment.

 

[Jackburton]

I really fail to see how someone can honestly not see how a back up camera isn't a safety item. ABS brakes are an enhancement also but would you take a package car out with the big red light glaring at you on your dash? As I said in a previous post, would you take a package car out with the drivers side mirror broken off? Would knowingly take a package car out that the E brake was loose?

You guys absolutely amaze me even when safety is shoved down our throats you still desire to "gamble" with the well being of the public and yourselves. We have language protecting us from being forced to operate vehicles that aren't 100% safe with the equipment placed in them operating correctly. No amount of productivity is worth my safety or that of the public's.

 

[rod]

When you heard an impact or a scream you would then know to stop?

Or when the back of you're head banged against the bulkhead. Them old spring mounted bumpers on those old P6's and P8's took a dirty beating.

 

[Catatonic]

I really fail to see how someone can honestly not see how a back up camera isn't a safety item. ABS brakes are an enhancement also but would you take a package car out with the big red light glaring at you on your dash? As I said in a previous post, would you take a package car out with the drivers side mirror broken off? Would knowingly take a package car out that the E brake was loose?

You guys absolutely amaze me even when safety is shoved down our throats you still desire to "gamble" with the well being of the public and yourselves. We have language protecting us from being forced to operate vehicles that aren't 100% safe with the equipment placed in them operating correctly. No amount of productivity is worth my safety or that of the public's.

I agree with you in theory but I do not think of the backup camera as an essential or critical safety item.
I have never driven a vehicle with a backup camera and display.
If you use good safety habits checking the rear of your vehicle upon approach and back immediately, I question the backup camera's effectiveness.

I think it would come in handy backing up to a trailer with a ball hitch. Easy in my SUV but tough in my truck.

 

[upschuck]

If you use good safety habits checking the rear of your vehicle upon approach and back immediately, I question the backup camera's effectiveness

It helps a ton when squeezing into a spot at the hub where there is not much room to get in/out and most turn quickly after clearing the front end of neighboring car. Other then that, the sound is as useful as the monitor.

 

[Dracula]

After some brutal snow, the best thing I ever heard a center manager say is: " In Syracuse they can run scratch, why are you guys having so many problems"?

Because we're not in Syracuse.

 

[cachsux]

I really fail to see how someone can honestly not see how a back up camera isn't a safety item. ABS brakes are an enhancement also but would you take a package car out with the big red light glaring at you on your dash? As I said in a previous post, would you take a package car out with the drivers side mirror broken off? Would knowingly take a package car out that the E brake was loose?

You guys absolutely amaze me even when safety is shoved down our throats you still desire to "gamble" with the well being of the public and yourselves. We have language protecting us from being forced to operate vehicles that aren't 100% safe with the equipment placed in them operating correctly. No amount of productivity is worth my safety or that of the public's.

If you were out on route and the camera crapped out would you pull off and call for a backup PC or write it up and use skill to get you through the rest of the day?

If the OP feels as strongly as he does then he needs to stick to his guns.

Personally I think the back up cameras are a band aid to other problems and make people complacent.

 

[Jackburton]

If you were out on route and the camera crapped out would you pull off and call for a backup PC or write it up and use skill to get you through the rest of the day?

If the OP feels as strongly as he does then he needs to stick to his guns.

Personally I think the back up cameras are a band aid to other problems and make people complacent.

That would be like saying if I used a fire extinguisher on route would I refuse to use the vehicle the rest of the day.

The simple fact of the matter is the employee doesn't feel safe and has noted it on the DVIR before he left and the issue isn't being fixed along with multiple vehicles that do have operational cameras not being used.

We have employees who refuse to drive with TP-60's attached to 1000's and cite safety. While I may not agreed with their stance, I understand it and they use the language we all work under to their benefit.

As a side note, consumer safety advocacy groups, the DOT,and the federal government are all in a fight over the mandate to put rear view cameras vehicles currently.