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Snowden: american hero
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<blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 1156198" data-attributes="member: 2189"><p><a href="http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/352455" target="_blank"><span style="color: #ff0000">Evidence is starting to build</span></a> that may call that claim into question. Even in 2005' <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/16/politics/16program.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0" target="_blank"><span style="color: #ff0000">it was being reported</span></a> that Bush was aware of spying on US citizens in general and not in specific. The claim that Bush and Cheney had nothing to do with it and that no US citizens were involved is not holding up as evidence builds and comes out to public disclosure.</p><p></p><p>And another former NSA employee on the matter.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And this all began well before 9/11. Just in the Clinton years alone, the FBI had <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivore_%28software%29" target="_blank"><span style="color: #ff0000">Carnivore</span></a> and the NSA/US Intelligence has had <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON" target="_blank"><span style="color: #ff0000">Echelon</span></a> or something like it for decades. As the cold war ended, a few people warned that these systems were being used now to spy on Americans and the cat calls of "Conspiracy theorist, lunatic, nutjob, etc. were the reply. Well now we know conspiracy theory can in time come to be proven as conspiracy fact. </p><p></p><p>May 1999' the <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/99/05/cyber/articles/27network.html" target="_blank"><span style="color: #ff0000">NY Times</span></a> ran a piece on concerns being voiced about Echelon and the Clinton administration spying on the American public. It's worth noting that in the 2005' NY Times piece linked above, the NYT seems to condemn Bush and Cheney and yet in the 1999' NYT piece on Echelon, the same paper seems to defend the practice. </p><p></p><p>Funny how politics works but then if one goes and does the research on the relationship of the NYTimes among others with the US Intelligence community and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird" target="_blank"><span style="color: #ff0000">Operation Mockingbird</span></a>, one may begin to understand way beyond the tired and worn out, "left wing, liberal bias media" retort. </p><p></p><p>What Snowden is telling is really not new at all if one is willing to dig a little and put the pieces together. He's nothing more than a confirmation of what was already known. Snowden claims to really big stuff is yet to hit so I'm waiting to see what that is. I admire his appearing to be willing to give it all up so to speak to warn the American public of their condition. His motives on the surface sure seem genuine but again much of those facts were already out there to begin with. Calling him hero or traitor IMO is yet to be fully determined. </p><p></p><p>Now I do consider Manning as hero but then like others, I don't wear red, white and blue glasses anymore either because the people in power took off their red, white and blue glasses a long, long, long, long.............time ago. The fact that the people in power regardless of party are not patriotic so to speak, truly loyal to place and people, is the real revelation and the Ellsbergs, Mannings, Sibel Edmonds and Snowdens are just exposing that fact and truth to the American public but the cognitive dissonance has said people twisted in knots!</p><p></p><p><img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/FeltTip/peaceful.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":peaceful:" title="Peaceful :peaceful:" data-shortname=":peaceful:" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wkmac, post: 1156198, member: 2189"] [URL='http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/352455'][COLOR=#ff0000]Evidence is starting to build[/COLOR][/URL] that may call that claim into question. Even in 2005' [URL='http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/16/politics/16program.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0'][COLOR=#ff0000]it was being reported[/COLOR][/URL] that Bush was aware of spying on US citizens in general and not in specific. The claim that Bush and Cheney had nothing to do with it and that no US citizens were involved is not holding up as evidence builds and comes out to public disclosure. And another former NSA employee on the matter. And this all began well before 9/11. Just in the Clinton years alone, the FBI had [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivore_%28software%29'][COLOR=#ff0000]Carnivore[/COLOR][/URL] and the NSA/US Intelligence has had [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON'][COLOR=#ff0000]Echelon[/COLOR][/URL] or something like it for decades. As the cold war ended, a few people warned that these systems were being used now to spy on Americans and the cat calls of "Conspiracy theorist, lunatic, nutjob, etc. were the reply. Well now we know conspiracy theory can in time come to be proven as conspiracy fact. May 1999' the [URL='http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/99/05/cyber/articles/27network.html'][COLOR=#ff0000]NY Times[/COLOR][/URL] ran a piece on concerns being voiced about Echelon and the Clinton administration spying on the American public. It's worth noting that in the 2005' NY Times piece linked above, the NYT seems to condemn Bush and Cheney and yet in the 1999' NYT piece on Echelon, the same paper seems to defend the practice. Funny how politics works but then if one goes and does the research on the relationship of the NYTimes among others with the US Intelligence community and [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird'][COLOR=#ff0000]Operation Mockingbird[/COLOR][/URL], one may begin to understand way beyond the tired and worn out, "left wing, liberal bias media" retort. What Snowden is telling is really not new at all if one is willing to dig a little and put the pieces together. He's nothing more than a confirmation of what was already known. Snowden claims to really big stuff is yet to hit so I'm waiting to see what that is. I admire his appearing to be willing to give it all up so to speak to warn the American public of their condition. His motives on the surface sure seem genuine but again much of those facts were already out there to begin with. Calling him hero or traitor IMO is yet to be fully determined. Now I do consider Manning as hero but then like others, I don't wear red, white and blue glasses anymore either because the people in power took off their red, white and blue glasses a long, long, long, long.............time ago. The fact that the people in power regardless of party are not patriotic so to speak, truly loyal to place and people, is the real revelation and the Ellsbergs, Mannings, Sibel Edmonds and Snowdens are just exposing that fact and truth to the American public but the cognitive dissonance has said people twisted in knots! :peaceful: [/QUOTE]
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