So Long Compact Truck, In the US At Least

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by wkmac, Dec 12, 2011.

  1. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

  2. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    Not really.
    Ford would like to increase the sales of its F-150 turbo-boost ( known as Eco-boost ).
    Nice idea using a V-6 that gives the power of a V-8, but when towing sees a big drop in mpg.
    Small trucks with diesels were for sale in the US back in the mid-80's ; Volkswagen & Toyota namely.
    Both got great mileage , but all that black soot created was a turn off.
    Toyota has its Hi-Lux line of diesels , but not in the US.
    And their current small truck, Tacoma I would no longer call small.
    I compared my 1996 to a 2012 model and the newer one is huge.
    We do need the World Ranger to be sold here, and with it's diesel engines.
    I see a market for them and the first major player that sells them will see skyrocketing sales.
     
  3. brett636

    brett636 Well-Known Member

    I wonder whatever happened to that Indian company that was supposed to bring in a compact pickup truck with a diesel engine? There was a lot of talk about it a couple of years ago, but today I have heard little if anything about it. Perhaps the EPA along with the emissions requirements of states like California scared them away? Either way our government is very perplexing with how it handles high efficiency vehicles. First off it mandates that vehicles hit some pie in the sky numbers for fuel efficiency, but then make it difficult for manufacturers to bring in the diesel engines that would easily exceed some of these mpg figures. Manufacturers respond by building cars like the Chevy Volt that nobody wants, or other hybrid models, but then the government complains that because of these vehicles they are not getting enough money in gas taxes to pay for the roads so they want a per-mile tax and want to track us all via GPS all because of the mpg figures they forced the manufacturers to hit. Its obvious the bureaucrats who come up with this nonsense simply does not think through their decisions and the consequences therein. Let the market decide who drives what and as fuel gets more expensive people will switch to more fuel efficient vehicles. It really is not rocket science.
     
  4. trplnkl

    trplnkl 555

    Brett, that's just they way they roll. Look what they did with tobacco/cigarettes. They put taxes on cigs, the states followed suit both claiming health care issues with the money going into health care. When millions quit smoking, the tax revenue dropped dramatically so what did they do? Yep raised the taxes even more. LOL
    Now they are starting on the obese people. Who's next?
     
  5. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    Mahindra was the Indian company.
    They promoted it as a small diesel pick-up that would get 30mpg.
    Unfortunately after spending millions on testing and making their vehicles conform to US standards, the EPA only gave them a low 20's mpg. Still not bad for a truck made out of real steel, the body panels would have been twice as thick as a Tacoma's.
    Currently their EPA certification expires this Dec. 31, so it is highly unlikely that we will ever see them here. Also there are some legal issues between Mahindra vs.the importer, and Mahindra & their importer vs. the dealers who invested funds including building separate facilities to house only the Mahindras.
    I really wanted one.
     
  6. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

  7. bbsam

    bbsam Moderator Staff Member

    I wonder if Ford's decision wasn't based on something the author left out. He talks alot about sales numbers, but not about profit. Before the Taurus/500 was revamped it too was considered for cancellation even though it was a best seller in class year after year. Problem was that the reason the sales numbers were so high was because they were viewed as "fleet cars" and sold thousands (at little to no profit) to Hertz, Enterprise, etc. As for a small diesel, I doubt it would sell very well. It would be a niche market at a cost similar in power and cost to Ford's 2.0l Eco-boost. I'm looking forward to the day when the Eco-line of engines for Ford are the base power plants.
     
  8. JustTired

    JustTired free at last.......

    Sounds to me like I better keep ahold of my 96 Ranger. 127,000 miles and still drives and looks like new. That is....it looks like new when it gets its annual bath. Maybe the value will go up. That would be a first. This is my 2nd Ranger. The first was an 84. Both bought new.
     
  9. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    check out Europe's cars.
    60% are diesels and most have turbos.
    Something that our vehicles lack.
    Having followed several car/truck forums in the past few years, there is a demand for a small diesel pickup, mostly for the mileage but like myself many want all the extra ft-lbs of torque.
    [​IMG]
    2012 Ford “Global” Ranger
    This is Ford’s new mid-size pickup which will be available pretty much everywhere in the world except the US as MP has complained about in the past. It will be available in regular cab, extended cab, and quad cab versions with choices of a gasoline 4-cylinder engine and 5-speed manual, or 4 and 5-cylinder diesels with 6-speed manual and 6-speed automatic transmissions. Read it and weep at PickupTrucks.com: First Drive: 2012 Ford Ranger.

    [​IMG]
    2012 Chevy Colorado
    The good news is that we will likely get the new Colorado within the next few years. The bad news is that engine options for the US are still undisclosed. MP is a big proponent of GM installing the upcoming 4-cylinder diesel set for the Chevy Cruze in the new mini ‘rado. Bolt up a 6-speed manual or 6-speed (or more) automatic and that engine could be a decent performer in a little pickup, but we will wait and see. Read more at PickupTrucks.com: Next Gen Chevy Colorado Gets Ready for World Debut
     
  10. bbsam

    bbsam Moderator Staff Member

    I think if you look at the small diesel's numbers, they will be similar to Ford's Eco-boost engines. So why would Ford do extensive and expensive research and testing when they have a high-tech, high-mpg, high-power, compact engine that features direct injection and turbo-charging? With the right gearing, that drive train can fill many, many roles.
     
  11. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    The question I have is why the seeming roadblocks to diesel powered vehicles? When one understands how historically the car makes, the oil companies and gov't have worked together to feather the nests of each, it begs the question, are diesels a threat because of the ability to homebrew your own fuel?

    It's a real question that I have no answer but my gut forces me to poise the question anyway!
     
  12. brett636

    brett636 Well-Known Member

    Diesel engines by their very nature are more efficient than any gasoline engine could ever hope to be. Why can the VW jetta TDI get 45 mpg while its gas version can only get 29-30? The diesel engine is the key. Not only does the way a diesel run make it more efficient, but diesel fuel itself contains more BTU's of energy per gallon than gasoline. There are small diesel cars in Europe today that can get upwards of 70 mpg, but we don't have those here because our government simply refuses to let up on its overly stringent requirements to bring them here.
     
  13. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    Great points Brett. And again, market interventionism by the gov't but on whose behalf and self interests?
     
  14. moreluck

    moreluck golden ticket member

    The reason most women don't want a diesel engine is all the black marks on the white/light color car from the filthy black exhaust. It's disguting looking.

    It's all about the looks.
     
  15. bbsam

    bbsam Moderator Staff Member

    Diesel fuel does indeed contain more energy, but also burns dirtier requiring some very expensive add-ons to the vehicle to pass emissions. Add to that more expensive tune-ups and more expensive fuel and very soon it becomes evident that the cost far out-weighs the benefits. And to Wk's point about self fueling a vehicle, we had a contractor do it for a year with two trucks and it is a very time consuming, messy, and frustrating ordeal so I don't think that's anyone's main objection. You simply wont find that many people willing to take on that task.
     
  16. brett636

    brett636 Well-Known Member

    Those expensive add-ons are the very government requirements that keep us from getting some of the more efficient diesel cars that are found elsewhere in the world. As far as the cost goes there was a study that shows diesel car owners recoup the extra costs of the diesel vehicle faster than that of a hybrid.
    Study Shows Diesel Engines Recuperate Extra Cost Quickly
     
  17. bbsam

    bbsam Moderator Staff Member

    If you frequent diesel pickup sites, you will find the recouping of cost discussion ad nauseum. It seems a consensus is never reached. And why compare diesel only to hybrid? Gasoline tech is quickly eroding the advantages of diesel. And yes, I own a diesel pickup.
     
  18. Lue C Fur

    Lue C Fur Evil member

    Resale values are better for Diesels...plus the Torque is addictive.
     
  19. bbsam

    bbsam Moderator Staff Member

    Torque is nice but to be honest, I've never come close to using all that my truck has which makes me wonder what the appeal of a small pickup with a diesel would be. Not gonna impress the fellas onthe jobsit that's for sure.
     
  20. brett636

    brett636 Well-Known Member

    Diesel medium duty trucks and diesel passenger cars are two different animals. Most diesel trucks liked what you described get 17-20 mpg and cost north of $50k brand new. I am referring to passenger vehicles that cost around $25k or less and get near 50 mpg.