Softening Us Up?

Ricochet1a

Well-Known Member
You didn't answer my question. What's the national average per PSA? 15 an hour is also low. Unless you are only considering what a contractor takes as a salary and not what they pay themselves in dividends.

Are you factoring in effective tax rate? How much in taxes are ups and express drivers paying? I bet you it's a whole lot more than a contractor... Since we are going on national average that is.

Where did you pull "below 10 an hour to 15" from?

It is what the people actually driving the trucks make. What the contractors make is absolutely irrelevant. Does what an Express manager or UPS manager make have any relevance on what the drivers of the vehicles actually make?

Since Ground and Express operate differently, you CANNOT look at what FedEx pays the contractor then divide that up by number of drivers actually working. The comparison is actual driver compensation across the industry. It would be faulty to take the total wage cost to an Express station (including mangers and mechanics), divide that by number of Couriers (controlled for full/part time status) then come up with a figure of compensation per Courier hour worked.

For Ground, look at what the "helpers" are paid, NOT route owners under the IC model. Helpers aren't paid dividends - in most cases they are paid a salary and that is it. Express Couriers don't "own" their route (neither do UPS drivers) so attempting to include "dividends" (excess earnings) from a corporation as part of the compensation is a faulty comparison between companies. If Express Couriers "owned" their routes, they'd be getting dividends too from excess earnings.
 

franknitty

Well-Known Member
One of the Ground drivers in my area said he makes the equivalent of $7.00/hour. His contractor pays him by the stops he delivers/pickup. I couldn't do it (Ground).
 

STFXG

Well-Known Member
FedEx has run the numbers, and having dual coverage of areas (Ground and Express trucks) IS much cheaper. Very soon, they will have THREE drivers potentially delivering to the same address (Ground, Express, Office). They've run the numbers, labor is the major cost, NOT the running of multiple vehicles. Without the RLA for Express and the inappropriate use of the IC model for Ground, FedEx would've been forced into complete integration as UPS has. By paying for one advantageous labor rules and defending the use of the other, FedEx has obtained the lowest cost labor possible while meeting its service goals.

Just as the current Express wage employees are looking at the impending change and not able to comprehend what is about to happen, looking at how UPS runs its business and attempting to rationalize how FedEx can efficiently runs its by comparison is faulty thinking. If UPS could somehow get rid of the Teamsters and adopt a model like FedEx currently has and will further modify in the coming years, UPS would do it in a heartbeat.

In one of those trucks, FedEx is paying about $12/hr with no benefits to the operator. In the other, FedEx currently pays about $27/hr on average INCLUDING benefits. UPS pays on average about $40/hr to the operators of their trucks - including benefits. In addition, since UPS has increased density of volume (a single truck covers a small area compared to a Express truck), the efficiency of getting the volume out of an UPS truck is higher.

With the gradual change to a part-time force with Express and the shifting of delivery to Ground of non-overnight volume, the cost advantages of FedEx will increase even more. The typical Courier pay will drop to about $22/hr (assuming they keep the same pay rates). If Express is able to being in more "Courier-handlers" to drive the routes which will become predominantly Sprinter type vehicles (not requiring DOT certification), then costs can be reduced even further. Express has already held back starting pay for Couriers (they used to bump starting pay up each year with the pay actions). The writing is on the wall.

Then why argue what a driver at FedEx is getting paid when comparing the cost of labor? THe cost of labor at ground is directly related to what the contractor is being paid. Your statement about drivers being paid by FedEx 12 an hour is false. And without knowing what a contractor makes per PSA after expenses you cannot compare the labor cost for ground/hd to express or ups.
 

Ricochet1a

Well-Known Member
Then why argue what a driver at FedEx is getting paid when comparing the cost of labor? THe cost of labor at ground is directly related to what the contractor is being paid. Your statement about drivers being paid by FedEx 12 an hour is false. And without knowing what a contractor makes per PSA after expenses you cannot compare the labor cost for ground/hd to express or ups.

The cost of labor when comparing across companies is solely dependent on what EMPLOYEES make, not what owner-operators make. It would be akin to comparing what an owner-operator of a semi truck made to what an employee of a trucking company made. They both do the exact same thing on the road, but the owner-operator assumes the added responsibility of maintaining their vehicle and potentially looking for additional business.

I know what the employees at Ground make and I know the national average. You cannot make an apples to oranges comparison across different models.

Take what you pay one of your helpers, add in the cost of any benefits you provide them, divide that by the number of hours they actually work, and you have your answer as to what they are effectively compensated. What FedEx pays you as a contractor has absolutely NOTHING to do with calculating what actual pay is for someone driving your trucks that don't "own" part of the business.
 

STFXG

Well-Known Member
The cost of labor when comparing across companies is solely dependent on what EMPLOYEES make, not what owner-operators make. It would be akin to comparing what an owner-operator of a semi truck made to what an employee of a trucking company made. They both do the exact same thing on the road, but the owner-operator assumes the added responsibility of maintaining their vehicle and potentially looking for additional business.

I know what the employees at Ground make and I know the national average. You cannot make an apples to oranges comparison across different models.

Take what you pay one of your helpers, add in the cost of any benefits you provide them, divide that by the number of hours they actually work, and you have your answer as to what they are effectively compensated. What FedEx pays you as a contractor has absolutely NOTHING to do with calculating what actual pay is for someone driving your trucks that don't "own" part of the business.

I wasn't the one making the comparison in wages when calculating actual cost for FedEx. You were. Maybe you should read what you said about ground drivers making 12 an hour again? Not sure what to tell you...

Simply put the cost of labor for express is wages paid and benefits. The cost of labor for ground is more complicated than stating the national average for its drivers. Which are not FedEx employees. So you made another irrelevant statement.

But this is getting way off track. So continue on wih your rant
 

Ricochet1a

Well-Known Member
Actual cost to a "customer" (in your case FedEx) for your services and effective end compensation for an employee are two separate issues/numbers.

The actual cost to FedEx in having a contract with a particular contractor is absolutely irrelevant in making comparisons in actual employee compensation between different companies and business models. Again, take what you pay your employees, add in the cost of any benefits they receive, divide that by total hours they work, and you have their effective compensation rate. What FedEx pays you as a contractor is absolutely irrelevant when it comes to determining the total compensation a "helper" (non-owner operator) makes.

One cannot make a direct comparison between compensation received by Ground contractors to the effective compensation rates for employees across the industry.

This is all part of the smoke and mirrors that FedEx has been engaging in for years. The "owners" are paid X dollars a year for the routes they own. Well, that is the cost to FedEx, but then the owner has to expense everything (vehicle, fuel, maintenance, wages for non-owners) and they are left with a much smaller figure in their pocket.

Then the "helpers" are left with getting more often than not a very small salary for doing 50-60 hours a week of work. What the route owners receive from FedEx for running the route ISN'T the effective compensation rate of the drivers actually doing the work which don't own the route and don't receive dividends.
 

dvalleyjim

Well-Known Member
In one of those trucks, FedEx is paying about $12/hr with no benefits to the operator. In the other, FedEx currently pays about $27/hr on average INCLUDING benefits. UPS pays on average about $40/hr to the operators of their trucks - including benefits. In addition, since UPS has increased density of volume (a single truck covers a small area compared to a Express truck), the efficiency of getting the volume out of an UPS truck is higher.

Also the ground guy is fueling, repairing and paying all expenses associated with that truck and driver. A tremendous boondoggle for ex.
 

Ricochet1a

Well-Known Member
We had a meeting this morning concerning the Lead On program. Our salesman was there and they played a video. What was interesting is the video went to great length to explain how the pkg industry has changed since 2001. MT3 introduced an exec who explained how we were not getting as many as pkgs from the finance, insurance, and real estate industries due to electronic signature capture, as well as major shippers having locations around the country, instead of just one location, to take advantage of Ground's cheaper rates.

The salesman even pointed out that an Express courier gave him a lead that resulted in $100,000 in new GROUND business. By the way, our salesmen are no longer just Express salesmen. They represent all our services(integration?).

Our senior then pointed out how much our various services cost to ship a 1 pound pkg to the next state over from our town and how much cheaper Ground was than both Express and UPS. He emphasized the differences and by the end of the meeting I had to wonder if this was truly about sales leads or are they starting to work on us, demonstrating why it will be necessary to make major changes.

I received independent confirmation of this meeting topic being a NATIONAL level meeting (two other stations had EXACTLY similar meetings). So if you haven't had this meeting yet, expect to spend some time sitting in a presentation given by either someone from sales or dispatch in the next couple of weeks.

Part of this is a renewed push for sales leads. FedEx now expects Express Couriers to start generating sales leads (for GROUND!!!) in order to boost profits for FedEx Corporation as a whole (no integration going on here, none whatsoever!!!). The "goal" is to have a sales lead each week submitted by a Courier (this is being done due to the dramatic drop-off in leads that occurred after the performance review was tossed). Since the Ground contractors cannot be tasked with getting sales leads for FedEx (they are contractors after all, they can't be tasked with sales...), Express Couriers are going to be given the whole shebang of doing the legwork for FedEx sales.

As of now, this is a "goal" and not a requirement. Supposedly, if the goal isn't met, it will become a requirement with possible discipline attached if a Courier doesn't meet the "one lead a week" expectation.

As an incentive, they are offering for having turned in 4 solid leads (that lead to revenue) a brand new pair of spiffy Oakley sunglasses. No word on the retail value of these glasses or if they'll be cluttered up with FedEx logos all over them.

So out with the gloves, pens and Payday candy bars - in with the Oakley sunglasses. FedEx realized you couldn't be bought with such small trinkets, so now you've moved up to the big leagues and will be getting specially made sunglasses for your efforts.

Damn I'm glad I'm out.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
I am am active sales lead participant but would be hard pressed to seek out and submit sales leads which could eventually lead to me losing hours or even my job.

My futures not bright why do I need shades?
 

LTFedExer

Well-Known Member
So out with the gloves, pens and Payday candy bars - in with the Oakley sunglasses. FedEx realized you couldn't be bought with such small trinkets, so now you've moved up to the big leagues and will be getting specially made sunglasses for your efforts.

Damn I'm glad I'm out.
The sunglasses for a month of participation and the tote bag for 3 months are the bomb.....can't wait to get mine :rolleyes:
 

CJinx

Well-Known Member
Our sales guy doesn't give us anything cool.
The senior manager says it's because our sales guy isn't cool.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
I received independent confirmation of this meeting topic being a NATIONAL level meeting (two other stations had EXACTLY similar meetings). So if you haven't had this meeting yet, expect to spend some time sitting in a presentation given by either someone from sales or dispatch in the next couple of weeks.

Part of this is a renewed push for sales leads. FedEx now expects Express Couriers to start generating sales leads (for GROUND!!!) in order to boost profits for FedEx Corporation as a whole (no integration going on here, none whatsoever!!!). The "goal" is to have a sales lead each week submitted by a Courier (this is being done due to the dramatic drop-off in leads that occurred after the performance review was tossed). Since the Ground contractors cannot be tasked with getting sales leads for FedEx (they are contractors after all, they can't be tasked with sales...), Express Couriers are going to be given the whole shebang of doing the legwork for FedEx sales.

As of now, this is a "goal" and not a requirement. Supposedly, if the goal isn't met, it will become a requirement with possible discipline attached if a Courier doesn't meet the "one lead a week" expectation.

As an incentive, they are offering for having turned in 4 solid leads (that lead to revenue) a brand new pair of spiffy Oakley sunglasses. No word on the retail value of these glasses or if they'll be cluttered up with FedEx logos all over them.

So out with the gloves, pens and Payday candy bars - in with the Oakley sunglasses. FedEx realized you couldn't be bought with such small trinkets, so now you've moved up to the big leagues and will be getting specially made sunglasses for your efforts.

Damn I'm glad I'm out.

I wonder if they can actually make us turn in leads? The old leads program was stopped, and I can only think there must have been a lawsuit somewhere as the only reason they'd stop making us turn them in.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
I wonder if they can actually make us turn in leads? The old leads program was stopped, and I can only think there must have been a lawsuit somewhere as the only reason they'd stop making us turn them in.

Our sales people hate "forced sales leads" as they are usually a waste of time and resources.
 

SmithBarney

Well-Known Member
I stopped turning in sales leads when the last 4 which generated plenty of Volume
were deemed not good leads, therefor I was not entitled to any "payout" or reward.

You know I probably would get leads even if it means we don't get anything in return,
but when you dangle the carrot, and pull it away. Fool me once Shame on me Fool me 4 times(doh!)
 

LTFedExer

Well-Known Member
I wonder if they can actually make us turn in leads? The old leads program was stopped, and I can only think there must have been a lawsuit somewhere as the only reason they'd stop making us turn them in.

I remember it was part of our review......which we don't have anymore. I wonder if they could start handing out OLCC's legally of course :rolleyes:
 

franknitty

Well-Known Member
I remember it was part of our review......which we don't have anymore. I wonder if they could start handing out OLCC's legally of course :rolleyes:

I would not be the least bit surprised if they start trying to issue OLCCs. I will keep you informed Bcuz I refuse to put in any sales leads when management continues giving me OLCCs for gap times when i running 100% this month, and almost 105% last month.
 

59 Dano

I just want to make friends!
I wonder if they can actually make us turn in leads? The old leads program was stopped, and I can only think there must have been a lawsuit somewhere as the only reason they'd stop making us turn them in.

They got tired of people turning in bum leads for them to pursue.
 
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