Something to ponder...

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by GSO_Dave, Oct 30, 2007.

  1. GSO_Dave

    GSO_Dave New Member

    Comments on this "essay"?

    This is something I wrote regarding my performance.
    I have been told that I am about to be placed on "working termination".​

    1. Two mis-sorts out of 1,000 loads percentage: two tenths of one percent.

    2. Eight mis-sorts out of 5,500 loads percentage: 29/200th of a percent.

    3. Sixteen mis-sorts out of a month, est. 20,000 loads percentage: less than one tenth of one percent (0.08).

    4. One hundred eighty mis-sorts out of a year, est. 240,000 loads percentage: three quarters of one tenth of one percent.

    In one year, say 85% of my mis-sorted packages were late.
    That percentage of the total packages processed is six and three eights of one hundredth of one percent.

    Now, I work approximately 25 hours a week. For peak season averaging, we'll say 1400 hours a year.

    Three days would equal slightly more than 15 hours. The percentage of 15 hours out of 1400 hours is: 1 and almost one tenth of one percent.

    Looking at the worst percentage of mis-sorts, two tenths of one percent, versus being penalized at over one percent, I believe that the penalty grossly outweighs the "mistakes" made during the mis-sorts. The multiple for the penalty versus the actual is close to 50 times.

    So, looking at the above, *. **** and the management at UPS-Greensboro feel that fair punishment is fifty times that of the actual mistake.

    My mis-sorts are most likely significantly less than the example above, yet I am being penalized out of proportion to the actual mistake.
    Others are as well, this needs to be stopped. If workers were getting one percent mis-sorts, then the punishment would fit. Otherwise,
    it does not.

    Let's look at "technology". UPS has, in its operation, technology to prevent almost all mis-sorts. Yet, it does not implement this technology
    in our hub. Technology is used to prevent misloads, packages entered into the system as going to the wrong place - when they are actually going to the proper place. These packages would, without intervention, be delivered on-time. Not so, with a mis-sorted package. A mis-sorted package is entered into the system as going to the wrong place, and that's where it goes. Which is more important, tracking a package to the wrong place, but that package wasn't sent wrong, and was delivered on-time? Or tracking a package to the wrong place, and was sent incorrectly, and subsequently delivered late? Why isn't mis-sorted technology being used? I've been told that it would cost too much. More than 4,000,000,000 dollars?

    Dave
     
    Lasted edited by : Oct 31, 2007
  2. DS

    DS Fenderbender

    Relax man they wont fire you for that.
    Maybe you should go into management and see what they go though.
    Maybe 6 3/8 of 100 of 1% is low to you but in thier blind eyes its too high.The beatings will continue until morale improves.
     
  3. LKLND3380

    LKLND3380 Active Member

    Folow proper methods and you have nothing to worry about... Propper UPS corporate Methods... Not little things exclusive to your building because those are not approved by Corporate... Follow proper methods step by step NO MATTER how many PPH they say you need to do...

    Proper Methods takes time and slows production BUT you have a safe work environment and less misloads... Too many supes/managers would rather chance it and risk injury as well as missloads to reduce payrol and increase production...:w00t:
     
  4. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    What did the shop steward say when they told you the "working termination" BS?



    (PS - If you lose your UPS job, you'd be a great accountant!)
     
  5. JustTired

    JustTired free at last.......

    What the heck is a "working termination"?
    You're either terminated or your not. What penalty are you enduring because of this "working termination"? Sounds like they're short on people or you would be out the door.
    Sorry if that sounded like I thought you should be terminated. Far from it.

    It just amazes me what they come up with. I see it as pretty much a "scare tactic" to bring you in line. We had a driver once who was told mid-morning that when he got in that night he was fired. He told them that if he is fired, then he would be exiting the package car at that time. They changed their mind. Duh!!
     
  6. Damok

    Damok Member

    Typical scare tactics to try to make you work harder. Whether it was a PT sup, your full timer or even the center manager it's rubbish according to what you related here. If you have a decent SS he or she will give you the scoop.
     
  7. LKLND3380

    LKLND3380 Active Member

    I'll tell you what my BA said to someone in a similar situation...
    "Did they tell you not to come back?"
    "Then you still have a job and don't worry about it..."
     
  8. We are giving intent to terminates for missorts. Repeaters usually below 1 in 1000 (and most are below 1 in 500) But think of it this way.

    If your building gets 20000 packages a day, then 1% is 200 missorts a day. There is no way we can stay in business refunding shipping on 200 packages a day, not to mention our rep, which is all we really have.

    But the flip is we aren't disciplining for pph, we push for it, but realize that missorts have to come first.
     
  9. RockyRogue

    RockyRogue Agent of Change

    I think I'd actually PAY to sit in the room for the first panel for your first attempt to terminate for such a B.S. reason. I wasn't a missort nut when I wasn an hourly but C'MON....I'm not a d*mned machine. If I missort 10 out of 10,000 packages, most would say I'm doing my job very well! In some of our hubs, the Primary operates split transverses--left side goes Green, right goes Red. Those of you working HUBS might know what I'm talking about here. If its off by an INCH, it goes out as a missort. My hub was like this. Was I careful? YES! Was I perfect? NO! The sort aisles on Twilight and Midnight were MURDERED because of those split-transverses. Terminating an employee for a poor design? This is why I would PAY to sit on the first panel you had to go to. -Rocky
     
  10. Actually I'm talking center not hub.... 800-1200 pieces per day for a load area.
     
  11. DS

    DS Fenderbender

    We are giving intent to terminates for misguided Anony PAS SUP's
    that believe the crap that they tell them.Out of those 200 missorts I'd be surprized if 1% actually ask for thier money back.In fact most companies dont care as long as they get thier product that week.
    Why would you put your rep on the line by hiring and firing part time students that make $8.50 an hour?The flip? Ok if each loader goes slow and makes sure every package is meticulously placed in the proper spot,
    he will not be terminated for bad performance?
    Had to rant...this one bugged me...
     
  12. Anon PAS SUP

    Anon PAS SUP Guest

    Actually... production is running 60-70% MAR and higher management is discipling over missorts.... They are saying slow down and make it right. Now I'm not saying abuse it and load one per min. or anything. But at least right now in our area they are saying sort it right.

    my 2 cents
     
  13. GSO_Dave

    GSO_Dave New Member

    Thanks folks for the replies to my "essay". I especially like that one about being an accountant!

    No thanks, LOL.

    I'm supposed to be "suspended" right now, but my "manglement" team has yet to come to me and actually say don't come in on such and such day(s) because you are on "suspension".

    I really started this "thread" just so I could see if the hub where I work (harder than some, not as hard as others) was similar, or dissimilar in tactics to other ones.

    While I suppose I could ask for my specific numbers regarding my mistakes, and know for sure, I'm almost positive that my mistake ratio is significantly less than what I outlined in my "essay".

    I'm not sure, but I suspect, because I am somewhat outspoken on issues regarding my opinions about the safety in my work area and some of the "stupidvisors" pratices, that they are trying to "intimidate" me?
    :scared:

    Again, I welcome and want your comments...

    Thanks,
    Dave

    P.S. About the name edit, what if I say Y. Jork? LMAO :w00t:
    P.P.S. Who the heck is/was "Anony PAS SUP"?
    P.P.P.S. Can anyone tell me if indeed the "technology" that I mentioned actually exists and/or is in use somewhere? I've been told that it is, I'd just like to know where and specifically in what capacity/function/area...
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2007
  14. olympicking

    olympicking olympic_king

    Main street hub has an automatic smallsort that missort. Discipline the machine before you go after the human.
     
  15. Fnix

    Fnix Active Member

    I was fired over my last job because of the machine and the cheap program that I used. I could code a better one.
     
  16. LKLND3380

    LKLND3380 Active Member

    Who says it is running 60-70%? What if my figures show you are running at 115 -120%? What if someone else has figures that says you are only at 40%?

    In order for accurate numbers you need an equal playing field and that means every employee having same physical characteristics, health, etc... Now that would also mean same number of packages, weights, etc...

    Of course there are all these variables and the variables have their own set of variables... Based on that the only realistic numbers would be very lowest and anything more would be above average and even then near perfect...

    Look at the nations space program and how imperfect that is and they have some of the top engineers. Are we really to believe that UPS has the top people in the world coming up with these figures?

    I am willing to be these figured are dreamed up by a district manager wanting a 10% increase over last year... The center manager is given the number and to make sure it is met - the center manager pads it by 10% and then the supes pad the numbers so they are not accountable so now we end up with figures with a 30% volume increase... The hourlies are then FORCED to meet these PPH numbers and then we wonder why misloads are a problem... But it goes beyond that and DART injuries go up as well...

    Here is something for the rocket scientists at UPS... How much does one misload or late pacakge cost? How much does one DART injury cost?

    People will say - We dont have that many DART injuries, etc, etc. etc... But lets be honest, how many injuries go unreported?
     
  17. LKLND3380

    LKLND3380 Active Member

    DiD you get written up, warning letters?
    Did management or supervisors offer to re-train work with you to improve?
    Did you ask for management or supervisors to re-train and were denied?

    As soon as you get your Suspension letter you have (I think) 10 days to file a grievence and then UPS has (I think) 10 days to respond... So 20 days later you may be suspended or UPS can see their error and not suspend you. (ISN"T IT GREAT WE HAVE A UNION CONTRACT PROTECTING US?)

    Do you know of any co-workers who do the same amount or more misloads than you? Are they being threatened with suspension? Everyone must be treated equal and held to the same expectations. New hire or 10 years seniority doesn't matter - all treated equal...

    In my bldg, one guy filed 8 grievences within a three month period for Supes working, breaks being late, safety issues, working off the clock. Within 45 working days he was issued a warning, suspension, and termination letter. So based on that I suspect you are correct in your thinking... Now you may be thnking what happened to the guy? He won just about all of his grievences and went to panle over termination and he was back at work the next day...

    Bottom line - Know the contract, use proper methods and hold supervisors accountable...
     

  18. the current MAR for preload is 1/1500 for misloads...it used to be 1/1000, I think they changed it because we started meeting the quota. Yes I know there is no standard recognized (I haven't been a supe THAT long) I'm just telling you what they tell me haha. People were starting to feel good about themselves (well at work anyways), needed to knock down that morale back down I guess :w00t:
     
  19. you CAN'T discipline for pph, have you ever read the national agreement?

    Your new system plays a hand in many service failures (system flips I believe you call them). Thankfully those aren't counted against the preloaders anymore. Neither are the out of syncs which should be charged to the SPA personnel (and thankfully are now). I understand preloaders are the last line of defense, but they've got enough to do with pulling and comparing PALs (they don't get to all of them usually...which is where the out of syncs rear their ugly head), doing add/cuts, and making sure its sequenced all at 215+ pph (the MAR for our boxline). Does everyone make that? no they certainly dont. In fact nearly none of them do because we send them to other areas for help..that isn't factored into the numbers. They wanted me to lean into someone because his PPH was low...he was on another line for an hour....and in the unload for another 45 min. That didn't get factored in but these people shoot first and ask questions later...very stupid idea.

    My guys work hard, I don't care what that sheet says. I'd love to see the people pushing these numbers actually make them. Can I load at 215 an hour? I certainly can and more. Can I do it day in and day out? No. I get run down, I get sick, etc. These numbers are based on ideal conditions...which we all know don't often exist, if ever. I would be surprised if most of those paper pushers that make up this stuff could do 215+ for an hour, nevermind a shift.
     
  20. Channahon

    Channahon New Member

    Let's look at "technology". UPS has, in its operation, technology to prevent almost all mis-sorts. Yet, it does not implement this technology
    in our hub. Technology is used to prevent misloads, packages entered into the system as going to the wrong place - when they are actually going to the proper place. These packages would, without intervention, be delivered on-time. Not so, with a mis-sorted package. A mis-sorted package is entered into the system as going to the wrong place, and that's where it goes. Which is more important, tracking a package to the wrong place, but that package wasn't sent wrong, and was delivered on-time? Or tracking a package to the wrong place, and was sent incorrectly, and subsequently delivered late? Why isn't mis-sorted technology being used? I've been told that it would cost too much. More than 4,000,000,000 dollars?

    Not sure what UPS or hub you work at, but my experience over my career indicated UPS had all the technology in place at every operation in the country.

    I've been gone a couple of years, but I can tell you the technology at UPS is detailed to the point of a gnat's butt. I imagine the same analysis tools are still in place to identify who and why missorts are being created.

    And using the word "stupidvisor" doesn't do much for you either, as the lack of disrepect for management is evident. So are they trying to "intimidate"you? Probably not, just dealing with what they make think is a problem employee, would be my guess.