Step 1: file grievance or talk?

oldngray

nowhere special
Maybe they take a bus to work and get there a little early.

Should they wait outside?

I don't know the answer.

They shouldn't wander around off the clock but nothing wrong with being there ready to start a few minutes early. If they see a sup working they can tell him to stop or ask to be put on the clock.
 
I saw people lose grievances because they didn't follow the proper steps and talk first to try to resolve the issue before filing.
Not sure if that's really your job to talk to the supervisor. Remember who we work for.
Trust me,I fought many of battles over supervisors working. Not much of a problem anymore

But once us old-timers are gone,who knows?
 

oldngray

nowhere special
Not sure if that's really your job to talk to the supervisor. Remember who we work for.
Trust me,I fought many of battles over supervisors working. Not much of a problem anymore

But once us old-timers are gone,who knows?

Often, especially for part timers there may not be a steward around when things happen.
 

twoweeled

Well-Known Member
Lot of opinions here, but I wonder how many of them actually file anything. There are some good ideas, and I accept we have our own way of handling things. My thought was, you mention, "that's hourly work, and an hourly should be doing that work". The sup should stop - HE WON"T. That was the talk. Now you file. If you want, you can just go straight to file, and not mention it. Sometimes in the grievance, the manager in a sincere tone will ask; why didn't you bring it to our attention"? I feel the better response is, 'I did, and the sup continued to work". If you like the response of; because I didn't have to". Well then go ahead. In my scenario, you don't leave room for the BA or Steward to say crap like; okay, we've warned them, and next time we'll expect payment".
The worse thing you can do, is start debating the issue. Don't explain it. Your not there to educate and explain the violation. You tell them - and your on your way to get the form. The violation has already taken place. Your just a nice guy and letting them know, THEY SCREWED UP.
What the majority of guys do, is go in, and start debating the issue. Arguing the violation. Threaten, bark bark bark - and no grievance. You've just let management know, your harmless and nothing but bark. Your the last guy they are going to ever listen to.
There is also no reason for any driver, to be in his car before his start time. NO REASON. If your rationalizing it with, I have to prepare this or that, so you can be in there a minute early. Then you are just part of the problem. I'm the guy you hated. I'm the guy who went in 1/2 hr, and walked to every car and took down names, and wrote grievances. They stopped the drivers after 3 weeks. Was expensive to pay. Just kept turning in the grievances every 3 days!
No threat. No barking, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do that. Just repeated grievances. How many guys do you have in cars, prior to their start times, now? Probably more in cars, than standing at the center waiting for the PCM (if they have them anymore). I seen this for so many years. We cut our own throats, and we're too stupid to do anything about it. That's why the company is winning.
and you're losing.
 

542thruNthru

Well-Known Member
I can see drivers showing up to work early as they have to gather what they will need for the day. PTers really have no reason to show up early.


I'm sure you will disagree but he has just as much right as you do to show up early. You show up early to gather supplies and look at your route to prepare for the day. You are not on the clock and essentially working. That's breaking the rules. To many drivers think they are above the rules but think pt should follow them.

He shows up early to be prepared for work. When I was pt we were told we had to be there 10 min before start time. As long as he isn't disrupting other employees there should be no issue.

Since I know you will disagree please explain to me why you as a driver are exempt from the rules everyone else is held to?
 

twoweeled

Well-Known Member
I would agree with this if Ninnim showed up at his start time and saw the sup working. He stated that he was there 15 minutes early and, as such, was not yet on the clock when he approached the sup in question. I think the better question at that point would have been should Nimmin have asked to punch in and taken over loading the trailer.
No, he shouldn't ask to punch in. I'm assuming Nummin isn't dispatching. it is up to the sup/mgr to decide who punches in, according to the work rules. Don't involve yourself, anymore than you have to. Doesn't make sense!
 

Dr.Brownz

Well-Known Member
I have never read it. But I'm guessing you are also aware of "pass practice". That has undoubtedly been pass practice for at least 30 years. Which more than validates it. It may very well be written in some form. Either way, it has been pass practice.

You guys must be really good at driving on the highway with all of that pass practice
 

smapple

Well-Known Member
Thanks for everyone's input, Update:

Talked to sups both pt and ft and the steward, talked with some older guys who've been here 15+ years. Seems like everyone who's filed a grievance were eventually put on suspension for a long period or fired for bogus reasons although most come back. This actually explains at lot of why sups seem to antagonize certain hourlies. I know myself well enough that I'm not aware or invested enough in the job to watch my back every night or not blow up at a sup for hassling me. I'm gonna just do minimum work for my 3.5 hrs and focus on my 2nd job more.
 

twoweeled

Well-Known Member
Thanks for everyone's input, Update:

Talked to sups both pt and ft and the steward, talked with some older guys who've been here 15+ years. Seems like everyone who's filed a grievance were eventually put on suspension for a long period or fired for bogus reasons although most come back. This actually explains at lot of why sups seem to antagonize certain hourlies. I know myself well enough that I'm not aware or invested enough in the job to watch my back every night or not blow up at a sup for hassling me. I'm gonna just do minimum work for my 3.5 hrs and focus on my 2nd job more.

Well that is what probably 90% of drivers do. Although few will admit it. You'll hear a lot of big talk, and you find out later, they've filed "maybe" 5 grievances in 5 years. Maybe not even that. Management will start looking at everything you do, and it can and probably will become a war. That is why, some of the people have been fired (at least once)! Drivers are probably more under the gun. But management is having a hard time keeping part timers (YMMV). Better to not say anything, than to make a big fuss, and not do anything (in my opinion). Do what you feel is best, because it will escalate to a war. If everyone stood up, management couldn't battle everyone - but there's probably only 3-5 hardcore guys in the center that do daily battle with them.
In the case of drivers - management will fire you, the first solid opportunity anyway - they just don't look as hard at the guys who don't say anything.
You should do what works best for you. Plan ahead.
 
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