Strike Rumors

JonFrum

Member
Nobody forced you to take the 22.3 job, you keep complaining about wages yet you must be satisfied because your avatar name says it all. 22.3 positions due less than friend/t package drivers( i am basing this on 22.3 that work inside and del air) absolutely no comparison,
when ups first used p/t back in the early 70s, the purpose was for them to be students and work thru college and leave, not to make a friend/t job out of a p/t one. Some p/t"ers are staying till they retire with 30 years..... i believe that was not the intent.
Any part-timer who didn't take a 22.3 job has had his hours cut to 3.5 per day by UPS as part of their massive retaliation campaign. We have part-timers with twenty and thirty years seniority being kicked off the clock at 3.5 hours. In addition, they are now junior in seniority to all the 22.3 people on the shift, even the 22.3 people with just a few years with the Company who leap-frogged over them. So in fact we were "forced" to take a 22.3 job. The train was leaving the station and anyone not on board would be left behind.
- - - -
The original fantasy that UPS could hire college kids and then get rid of them upon graduation was illegal and promptly ended. The fantasy died in the '70. It's time to move on.

Back then high-seniority part-timers worked long hours, not just 3.5 or four.
 

unionslug

Active Member
Exactly. The purpose of the minimum language in the contract is to ensure no one is paid less under any circumstances. To try and use that language to say "hey, it says minimum, so UPS can pay more if they want to" is ignoring the purpose behind the language. It is just an idiotic thing to suggest. And it would be an idiotic thing for UPS to do, as once they started paying higher in one area due to changing conditions, they certainly would not be able to pull it back to the contractual minimum if those conditions changed. It is just a silly argument. Its basis is in claiming that the minimum language is in the contract to allow UPS to pay more, when, in fact as you have pointed out the purpose of the language is to ensure UPS does not try to pay less for special circumstances.
And a lot of people would say that its an idiotic idea that UPS couldnt pay more if they were so concerned about the part timers. It is plain language in the contract and not with a "because brownIEman said so" clause.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
Do yourself a favor--go back and read P-man's post in this thread. The fault for the huge disparity in pay between PT and FT lies squarely with the union. UPS sets aside a predetermined dollar amount for wages and benefits--it is up to the union how it is dispersed.

I would accept a wage freeze if it would reduce this disparity, if only slightly.
 

JonFrum

Member
Exactly. The purpose of the minimum language in the contract is to ensure no one is paid less under any circumstances. To try and use that language to say "hey, it says minimum, so UPS can pay more if they want to" is ignoring the purpose behind the language. It is just an idiotic thing to suggest. And it would be an idiotic thing for UPS to do, as once they started paying higher in one area due to changing conditions, they certainly would not be able to pull it back to the contractual minimum if those conditions changed. It is just a silly argument. Its basis is in claiming that the minimum language is in the contract to allow UPS to pay more, when, in fact as you have pointed out the purpose of the language is to ensure UPS does not try to pay less for special circumstances.

If you don't like the analogy of a one time purchase, perhaps a contract over time will help. What would you say if you cell phone company called you up and pointed out that the payment you make for your monthly bill is just the minimum under your contract and if you would like and are in a good financial position, you are more than welcome to pay more to them each month. Not to be put as a positive balance on your account, just as a nice thing to do.

It is just a silly notion.
UPS and Teamster negotiators slashed part-time wages for all people hired after mid-1982. Then they added insult to injury by keepiing the wages low every Contract thereafter.

No law, and no Contract forbids UPS from paying more that the pay rates established in the Contract.

UPS Managers and Supervisors have been complaining since 1982 about the low quality of the part-timers the low wages attract.

This decades of complaining prompts the rest of us to observe that:

(a) UPS agreed to slash the wages and subsequently keep them low in eight Contracts. (currently "Minimum Wage" low!!!)

(b) Nothing prevents UPS from solving the problem at any time by simply and unilaterally raising the part-time wages. Indeed, for a few years, in my building all part-timers got the "extra dollar," not just those who qualified for it. (UPS later took it away from them.)

(c) The wage rates are minimums. UPS can't pay less, but they are free to pay more, just as they are free to make contributions to charity or give UPSers turkeys and other things of value.

(d) Running a Company involves evaluating the situation and spending money if circumstances warrant. But UPS Management has spent the last 28 years lamenting that their hands are tied, when it's really their thinking that's tied in knots.
 

JonFrum

Member
Do yourself a favor--go back and read P-man's post in this thread. The fault for the huge disparity in pay between PT and FT lies squarely with the union. UPS sets aside a predetermined dollar amount for wages and benefits--it is up to the union how it is dispersed.

I would accept a wage freeze if it would reduce this disparity, if only slightly.
I've been hearing this for years from Management and it sounds totally illegal every time. Read up on the NLRB's rules of collective bargaining.
 

1989

Well-Known Member
thats bullsh** if a company can pay DRIVERS $30/hr and still turn over a $2 billion net profit a year thats good for both sides.the more a company pays its employees the more they can spend and put back into the economy.the majority of ups is p/t and make less than 20k a year which is poverty level.less than 20 thousand 22.3 jobs that make about 50k a year,so dont act like ups is paying everbody driver pay.since you drivers seem to believe that you are so overpaid next contract why dont you give up some of your $30/hr salary and spread it around to the p/t employes.


Two words....TOTAL COMPENSATION....Look it up. Part timers are paid much more than you give the company credit for.
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
Two words....TOTAL COMPENSATION....Look it up. Part timers are paid much more than you give the company credit for.

Most of the compensation in the form of benefits payments to the Teamsters are actually flowed into the the funds used to provide full-timers benefits.
Part-timers rarely use their health benefits.
Few ever collect any Pension benefits.

On the other hand:
Vacations are taken by the P/T.
Education reimbursement benefits are paid to the P/T.
 

22.34life

Well-Known Member
Two words....TOTAL COMPENSATION....Look it up. Part timers are paid much more than you give the company credit for.
the company does provide part timers with benifits that they rarley use.the average 20 year old has no kids and could care less about the benifits package.i have said it before many times on here but ill say it again the part time system doesnt work anymore and should be scraped.part timers get screwed all around and thats the truth.
 

iamupser

Grease Monkey
the company does provide part timers with benifits that they rarley use.the average 20 year old has no kids and could care less about the benifits package.i have said it before many times on here but ill say it again the part time system doesnt work anymore and should be scraped.part timers get screwed all around and thats the truth.

And then they took their turkeys away on top of it.:grrr:

The saying used to be "They're not here for the pennies, they're here for the bennies". Hope your kid doesn't need an appendectomy in the 1st year. Thanks UPS.
 

unionslug

Active Member
Do yourself a favor--go back and read P-man's post in this thread. The fault for the huge disparity in pay between PT and FT lies squarely with the union. UPS sets aside a predetermined dollar amount for wages and benefits--it is up to the union how it is dispersed.

I would accept a wage freeze if it would reduce this disparity, if only slightly.
I dont have to go re read a post Ive already read to know that if the company wanted to pay the part timers more then they could. The money amount set aside for contract negotiations is what gets passed. It never means the company couldnt pay more if they wanted
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
And then they took their turkeys away on top of it.:grrr:

The saying used to be "They're not here for the pennies, they're here for the bennies". Hope your kid doesn't need an appendectomy in the 1st year. Thanks UPS.

And the Teamsters since they negotiated for that.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
This "brotherhood" ends when my livelihood is affected.

We should all be grateful that those who came before us didnt have the same attitude, or we wouldnt have a union at all and our wages would be comparable to what the FedEx "independent contractors" are making.

Anybody who thinks that we earn what we do because of pure generosity on the part of UPS management needs to have their head examined. We earn what we are willing to strike for, no more and no less.
 
the company does provide part timers with benifits that they rarley use.the average 20 year old has no kids and could care less about the benifits package.i have said it before many times on here but ill say it again the part time system doesnt work anymore and should be scraped.part timers get screwed all around and thats the truth.
what are you talking about? You're telling me a 21 year old like myself has no use for the benefits package? My friend (not employed by UPS) just had an appendectomy. Went to the ER last week with pains in his sides with no health insurance. He's looking at 50k+ in medical debt.
 

Lue C Fur

Evil member
We should all be grateful that those who came before us didnt have the same attitude, or we wouldnt have a union at all and our wages would be comparable to what the FedEx "independent contractors" are making.

Anybody who thinks that we earn what we do because of pure generosity on the part of UPS management needs to have their head examined. We earn what we are willing to strike for, no more and no less.

+1. The above statement is so true.
 

brownIEman

Well-Known Member
(b) Nothing prevents UPS from solving the problem at any time by simply and unilaterally raising the part-time wages.

There is something that prevents UPS from unilateraly raising part-time wages. It is called the reality of a competitive market place. UPS is losing market share continually. UPS is unable to compete on price and competes mostly on service. If we raise our costs by unilaterally increasing the part time pay we have to recoup that cost somewhere. Prior to a contract negotiation, we cannot recoup by reducing the cost of the full timers. If we try to recoup by trying to get more and better quality work from the newly better paid employees, the union will fight any and all more and better work standards we might try to implement.

To suggest there is nothing stopping UPS from just unilaterally paying the part timers more is just as silly as suggesting there is nothing from stopping you from paying more for your cell phone every month.


(c) The wage rates are minimums. UPS can't pay less, but they are free to pay more, just as they are free to make contributions to charity or give UPSers turkeys and other things of value.

(d) Running a Company involves evaluating the situation and spending money if circumstances warrant. But UPS Management has spent the last 28 years lamenting that their hands are tied, when it's really their thinking that's tied in knots.

I am not suggesting that UPS cannot unilaterally start paying the part timers more. I never meant to give that impression. As you say, running a business requires evaluating circumstances and using resources available and plan for utilizing resources in the furture. If your costs go up in one area (such as part time labor) you have to recoup those costs somewhere, either cutting them in another area or increasing prices, which makes you less competitive.

Are UPS managers hands tied? Certainly not completely, but there are restrictions. UPS cannot declare that the part timers will get the raise that was planned to go to the full timers this year, keeping the books balanced and easing the desparity.

During contract negotiations, it is not UPS job to fight for higher wages for part timers any more that it is your job to fight for a higher selling price when you are buying a home. It is the unions place to negotiate for higher wages and better conditions for all of their members. To fail to successfully fight for higher wages for a group you represent, and then try to say it is UPS fault, because they agreed to a minimum and they can pay more any time thay want is just a non sensical argument.

It would be like a cell phone company hiring a contractor to negotiate rates with a customer for service. When the negotiations are done, and the phone company realizes the rates the contractor negotiated are way too low, they complain to their contractor, and his reply is, well the rates are a minimum, the customer can pay more if they want, nothing is stopping them.

I suppose it is not entirely false, but it smacks of refusing to take any personal responsibility for what you are supposed to do and it is just a silly argument to make.
 

brownIEman

Well-Known Member
And a lot of people would say that its an idiotic idea that UPS couldnt pay more if they were so concerned about the part timers. It is plain language in the contract and not with a "because brownIEman said so" clause.

I concede that the contract does nothing to prevent UPS from paying more to the part timers unilaterally. There are other factors that do that.

But to try and duck any responsibility on the part of the union for failing to fight for better wages for the part timers by sayiing we just fought for a minimum, UPS can pay more anytime, so really it is UPS fault that the part timers are paid to little, is just makes no sense.

It really is like a someone selling a house realizing they negotiateda price that was to low and then blaming the buyer for there current financial woes and saying "hey, you could pay me more than the agreed upon price if you cared about me, nothing in our contract is stopping you"

So I will admit that statement is factually true, but as an argument for absolving the union of any responsibility in the part time wages being too low it makes no sense what so ever.
 

brownIEman

Well-Known Member
We should all be grateful that those who came before us didnt have the same attitude, or we wouldnt have a union at all and our wages would be comparable to what the FedEx "independent contractors" are making.

Anybody who thinks that we earn what we do because of pure generosity on the part of UPS management needs to have their head examined. We earn what we are willing to strike for, no more and no less.
+1. The above statement is so true.

+2 This is absolutely true.

The part timers are paid what the union is willing to strke for. My whole point on the first page of this thread was that I am surprised that the part timers allow the union to allow that number to be as low as it is.
 

deleted9

Well-Known Member
Any part-timer who didn't take a 22.3 job has had his hours cut to 3.5 per day by UPS as part of their massive retaliation campaign. We have part-timers with twenty and thirty years seniority being kicked off the clock at 3.5 hours. In addition, they are now junior in seniority to all the 22.3 people on the shift, even the 22.3 people with just a few years with the Company who leap-frogged over them. So in fact we were "forced" to take a 22.3 job. The train was leaving the station and anyone not on board would be left behind.
- - - -
The original fantasy that UPS could hire college kids and then get rid of them upon graduation was illegal and promptly ended. The fantasy died in the '70. It's time to move on.

Back then high-seniority part-timers worked long hours, not just 3.5 or four.



i think you interpreted part of my posting wrong, Nobody said get rid of them after graduation, it was assumed that there would be turnover because of college degrees in different fields of professions and skills, and yes there is and was lot of opportunities to stay at ups, but again p/t is p/t not friend/t.
Good point except there was no massive retaliation campaign, if you know anything about ups you know that they are not going to add hours and cost into operations for the same amount of work being done without cutting cost somewhere...... its called business..... am i correct in assuming that seniority is a union thing, set up by the union on how it is determined. If true that would mean that the union approved the 22.3 leap-frogging over the longer employed p/t. Also as far as more hours years ago for p/t, no p/t employee could work over five hours or they would have to be paid a guaranteed 8 hrs for that day, now its overtime after 5 at least where i am.
 
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