Supervisors working grievance

[UnconTROLLed]

I recall one night during peak on the twi when one coordinator yelled at us saying that the supervisor of the area could work... it was "emergency conditions!" hahaha it was a good time, cuz i thought he was gonna have a heart attack right there cuz he was so angry haha!

For whatever reason in CHEMA sups are allowed to work during peak. The union does not care at all, which is not surprising since they are in bed with management all the way. Interestingly, in the other buildings ive worked, it is much more subdued with sups working during peak. Seems like an unspoken side deal (unadvertised may be a better fit) between union and mgmnt in this case.

 

[SupraFast]

A P/T sup does not discpline or fire anyone, so your fairy tale sounds noble and very team-oriented ( clearing egress) but it is not very honest with yourself.

Lol what are you talking about? I do discipline all of the time. Employee termination would happen after all of the disciplinary steps have been taken and after HR steps in. I have never personally got someone fired, but I have done discpline plenty of times. What's not being honest with myself? I haven't said anything that isn't true. Please elaborate if you're going to put up an argument. Discpline occurs due to attendance and not following any supervisors instruction. If I tell you to clear up your egress situation and you refuse, that is grounds for discipline. I would never waste my time discplining for something like that though. It's understood that proper egress needs to be maintained by all employees. When you see an unsafe condition, you correct it immediately if it's within your capacity.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Lol what are you talking about? I do discipline all of the time. Employee termination happens after all of the disciplinary steps have been taken and after HR steps in. What's not being honest with myself? I haven't said anything that isn't true. Please elaborate if you're going to put up an argument. Discpline occurs due to attendance and not following any supervisors instruction. If I tell you to clear up your egress situation and you refuse, that is grounds for discipline. I would never waste my time discplining for something like that though. It's understood that proper egress needs to be maintained by all employees. When you see an unsafe condition, you correct it immediately if it's within your capacity.

I didn't realize that P/T sups have the authority to hire and fire people. Either you are special or I have no clue what i'm talking about.

 

[SupraFast]

I didn't realize that P/T sups have the authority to hire and fire people. Either you are special or I have no clue what i'm talking about.

Part-time Supervisors can perform discpline. If all the disciplinary steps have taken place and there is nothing left but HR, yes it can result in an employee termination due to a Part-time Supervisor. Of course a Full-Time Supervisor is going to want to know why because it is his operation as well and he has more experience in management.

Part-time Supervisors have more say than you think, at least in my building. I definitely could prevent someone from being hired (before making book), and take the necessary actions to get someone terminated if I really wanted to.

That isn't my goal as a supervisor though. All I try to do is keep the operation running. It's the people who refuse to show up or work that cause the issues...which is a minority but they do exisit. Most of my employees are a good group of guys.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Part-time Supervisors can perform discpline. If all the disciplinary steps have taken place and there is nothing left but HR, yes it can result in an employee termination due to a Part-time Supervisor.

That is my point. You can discipline employees to high heaven, yet you have no authority beyond that, period.

"If I disciplined every employee for creating a egress situation and not following my instructions to clear it up, we would not have many long term employees at UPS"

 

[SupraFast]

That is my point. You can discipline employees to high heaven, yet you have no authority beyond that, period.

"If I disciplined every employee for creating a egress situation and not following my instructions to clear it up, we would not have many long term employees at UPS"

Exactly, if I kept discplining for the same exact thing, what do you think would eventually happen? Either the employee would finally get the point or he would continue pursuing his termination of the company. C'mon man, use your head a little bit.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Exactly, if I kept discplining for the same exact thing, what do you think would eventually happen? Either the employee would finally get the point or he would continue pursuing his termination of the company. C'mon man, use your head a little bit.

Your point doesn't make sense, but I guess we will agree to disagree.

Employees rarely cause egress problems, anyway, so that is a silly point to make. It is generally UPS and it's bull and horns approach to hammering out volume that causes 98% of egress issues. You can agree or disagree but I am pretty sure that most people would agree with that.

So basically, you will be laughed at for "keeping discplining for the same exact thing". Again, you don't have much of any authority and definitly not enough to "leave not many people working at UPS"

 

[SupraFast]

Keeping thinking the way you want, but you know I'm correct. The 2 rules are very simple:

1. Show up for work and don't be late
2. Follow your Supervisors instructions

End result = No Discpline

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Keeping thinking the way you want, but you know I'm correct

As long as you agree your strings are what control you at UPS. Which is why I denied the "promotion" years ago. Yep, you are correct!

 

[bellesotico]

Keeping thinking the way you want, but you know I'm correct. The 2 rules are very simple:

1. Show up for work and don't be late
2. Follow your Supervisors instructions

End result = No Discpline

REVISED and REDIRECTED:

Keep thinking the way you want, but YOU KNOW I'm correct. The REALITY of the 2 rules is very simple:

1. Show up for work and don't be late
2. Follow your Supervisor instructions [work as directed]

End result = A huge mess

I thought p/t sups were there to be noisemakers and get in the way...Hmm...I must have missed a PCM...

 

[Solidarity413]

Supervisors can work in the following conditions from my understanding:

1. Employee goes to the bathroom and nobody is available to cover.
2. Too many employees have no call no shows and not enough employees to cover.
3. To clear egress situations.
4. To train an employee.
5. An employee leaves the work area without notifying a supervisor and there is nobody available to cover.

1. You're kidding me,right? I would laugh while i'm filing on you.
2. As long as you go through all the steps then sure. But I doubt they ever really do.
3. Again, I'd laugh while filing. Do your job right and have proper staffing there won't be a need to 'clear egress'. Which usually means Oh hey I ******ed the sort aisle to get my numbers, better go get that egress. Sorry guys!
4. Yup! Got that one.
5. I'm lost on that one.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

1. You're kidding me,right? I would laugh while i'm filing on you.
2. As long as you go through all the steps then sure. But I doubt they ever really do.
3. Again, I'd laugh while filing. Do your job right and have proper staffing there won't be a need to 'clear egress'. Which usually means Oh hey I ******ed the sort aisle to get my numbers, better go get that egress. Sorry guys!
4. Yup! Got that one.
5. I'm lost on that one.

Go read supras blog, to get an idea who you are dealing with.

He/she claims , just for starters, that the union does not get along with management primarily because management forces, or at least tries, to make union members work hard.

That alone is laughable enough! Inexperience showing there.

 

[Solidarity413]

Go read supras blog, to get an idea who you are dealing with.

He/she claims , just for starters, that the union does not get along with management primarily because management forces, or at least tries, to make union members work hard.

That alone is laughable enough! Inexperience showing there.

Well that answers a lot of questions. Thanks! Maybe he just one of those guys who likes to hear himself talk

 

[1989]

Supervisors can work in the following conditions from my understanding:

1. Employee goes to the bathroom and nobody is available to cover.
2. Too many employees have no call no shows and not enough employees to cover.
3. To clear egress situations.
4. To train an employee.
5. An employee leaves the work area without notifying a supervisor and there is nobody available to cover.

I am a part-time supervisor in a sort isle. The typical situations where I find myself working are when an employee has to use the bathroom and when there are boxes on the floor in the sort isle.

1. This should only happen maybe once or twice a week. You arn't working with 4 year old kids. Looks like the bathroom has become a real issue for your area.
2. It only takes 5-10 minutes to make some calls. You won't lose a grievance for that.
3. always instruct an employee to immediately clear the egress first. You won't lose a grievance for keeping a safe work environment and a avoiding a $10,000 fine. Afterall the employee failed to follow directions.
4. Train away...Choo...Choo
5. Only in an emergency this should happen...Who is running the opperation?

 

[upser_J]

3. always instruct an employee to immediately clear the egress first. You won't lose a grievance for keeping a safe work environment and a avoiding a $10,000 fine. Afterall the employee failed to follow directions.

isn't it safety demonstration, so after a couple of times of demonstrating how to clean up the sides of the truck, employees should understand on their own how to do it and a supervisor doing it would be considered working... am i correct about that?

 

[raceanoncr]

not right but it happens occassionally... his grievance might have been settled with a bunch of other grievances and awarded to someone else as the settlement...also they could have just forgotten to pay him, too bad he didn't follow up on it

No, go back and read my post #6. My grievance was NOT settled with a bunch of other grievances and awarded to someone else as the settlement.

Also, they just did not forget to pay me.

I was the only one that filed on this instance because others were too scared, others with more seniority! I filed because I was available and had the time and was willing. It was ruled at panel that I was right but they should get paid because they were more senior, had the hours available and the time (willing didn't come into the equation).

Sorry, but I take umbrage to the expression, "too bad he didn't follow up on it". At one time, I had 7 grievances pending. One went to National, which I won, with the BA calling me constanly asking for more info. That one took one (1) year to get settled. "Didn't follow up on it"? Not me!

 

[LightsOut]

A P/T sup does not discpline or fire anyone, so your fairy tale sounds noble and very team-oriented ( clearing egress) but it is not very honest with yourself.

That is my point. You can discipline employeesto high heaven, yet you have no authority beyond that, period.

I congratulate you for the ability to put your foot so squarely into your mouth while pretending nothing happened. That takes skill.

A good full-time supervisor gives the reigns to his part-time sups, Sleeve. Any part-time'er should be in position to discipline his employees, initiate warning letters and suspensions, terminate any non-union employee, etc...

You want lower management to move up the chain, and you don't do that by taking away their responsibilities. Hourly employees are directly accountable to their part time sup -- he/she should be in charge, if that isn’t the case, the full timer is being negligent.

Stay safe.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

I congratulate you for the ability to put your foot so squarely into your mouth while pretending nothing happened. That takes skill.

A good full-time supervisor gives the reigns to his part-time sups, Sleeve. Any part-time'er should be in position to discipline his employees, initiate warning letters and suspensions, terminate any non-union employee, etc...

You want lower management to move up the chain, and you don't do that by taking away their responsibilities. Hourly employees are directly accountable to their part time sup -- he/she should be in charge, if that isn’t the case, the full timer is being negligent.

Stay safe.

That is true, I misspoke there and admit it. My point was that although a P/T sup can begin the discpline process, at least up here, they have NO AUTHORITY TO HIRE OR FIRE.

you are clearly taking the entire conversation out of context with my one post.

HE claimed that HIS discpline for EGRESS could result in NO ONE HAVING JOBS AT UPS. That is not saying he could discpline people, he claimed he could directly have them out of jobs.

That is irrational and ego-stroking material. And in reality, it's a fairy tale.

If you read the anti-union sentiment in his blog, along with some of the other questionable content, you will understand why I made these points clear.

 

[bubsdad]

Yes, and bubsdad did not state 3, which is why I said "there are more than that".

Back in February there was an accident on the highway before our midnight shift. All of the supervisors were covering employees who were going to be late. this is a good example of the "act of God" language.

I was talking about the situations in the building. I think we all know there are special circumstances. Let's not split hairs. I was answering the question that was posed.

 

[KidUPS]

That is true, I misspoke there and admit it. My point was that although a P/T sup can begin the discpline process, at least up here, they have NO AUTHORITY TO HIRE OR FIRE.

you are clearly taking the entire conversation out of context with my one post.

HE claimed that HIS discpline for EGRESS could result in NO ONE HAVING JOBS AT UPS. That is not saying he could discpline people, he claimed he could directly have them out of jobs.

That is irrational and ego-stroking material. And in reality, it's a fairy tale.

If you read the anti-union sentiment in his blog, along with some of the other questionable content, you will understand why I made these points clear.

I am a supervisor of an operation of around 20. Had an employee who was constantly late and did not take much to build up a case against him. He was given a chance to correct his behavior but it continued so the progressive discipline continued. Was brought into the meeting along with BA, steward, district labor manager and manager and employee to discuss his working term. Union stepped outside. Manager asked me what I wanted to do with the employee. Proceed with termination or not. I said proceed. Employee of 10 plus years was terminated and walked out the building.

Perhaps employee will get his job back. If he does, I hope he changes his behavior. However, to say part time supervisors have no power to fire a union employee is wrong. The majority of the time, managers go solely based on the case of the supervisor and his/her opinion on an hourly employee. Sometimes they just don't have the time to follow the careers of every hourly under their command.

If a prosecutor makes the case but leaves the final decision to jury and judge, are you going to read the newspaper the next morning and spit out your cereal saying "Boy, this prosecutor is so full of it. For him to say he brought this man to justice is so silly. He has no power. He is just blowing his own horn." If so, you will just look like a silly man eating his froot loops.

In regards to the topic of this thread...If a supervisor is working with proper staffing, he is simply not doing his job. Your strongest tool is your finger and voice. Jump in, get grieved. Simple enough. Find the person who grieved you and make him "work" rather then you do it for him. This company is losing so much money on the backs of supervisors unwilling to grow a backbone. Point blank. And for a hourly employee to grieve a supervisor working...well, its only the fault of the supervisor because the hourly employee is only doing what is stated black and white. So I can never fault a grievance on a hourly. Never. Well sometimes when its a ridiculous grievance. But you get the point.

And in regards for the bolded font of your quote...I am sure he is referring to employee's refusing to work as directed or building a case of employee failing to work safely (ie, documenting working incidents where employee did not work safe, etc.)