taking lunch at your home

[stevetheupsguy]

I don't understand how you were stealing time. Did you go over on your breaks? Other than that there was no reason to fire you.

True, but the fact of the matter is cwb is fired. Time to suck it up before there's no job left. MGMT, can make cases from anything, lately, ie, I got a warning letter for doing a good job. JMHO, but it's their pkg car, their rules and we must play according to their playbook and their game.

You can't do something that they consider an offense and claim ignorance as your defense. CWB should have known better, is what they will come back with. Again, JMHO.

 

[705red]

I am a 15 year employee .. driving for 5 years ...I am currently "Discharged" for dishonesty and "stealing time" It may have had something to do with the March cost cutting incentive (not sure )... I had a 7 day investigation done on me by lp with pics of me taking lunch at home . I would come home to see my kids and have a home cooked meal that was free!!! Which is between 1-4 miles round trip (depending on which route I would do. I would take 45 min for lunch and first break( not one sec more) and at end of day on the way back to bldg. would stop at home for last 15 min. break . Did this for the last 5 years when I did the routes near my home. Never was given ANY warning that I was doing ANYTHING wrong. Been out of work since March awaiting arbitration.. all the union B.A is telling me is "the DM doesnt feel that you are remorseful and the company does not want to negotiate." I worked 11 1/2 hour days and just wanted to see my kids during the week .

This is why every local should have the expedited arbitration process. Lp investigated you for 7 days and never once informed you that what you were doing was wrong. There is nothing in the contract that says what is a reasonable distance to travel. Your 15 years of dedicated service will account for a lot in the arbitrators thought process.

Have you ever been in trouble for anything else? Be truthful we are here to help. We just had a driver that received a warning for going 7 miles round trip off of his route to go home for lunch. He had two hours of down time waiting for his pick ups but the manager had a problem with the extra miles which will inflate your paid day. Do you bonus, run scratch, over allowed?

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

This is why every local should have the expedited arbitration process. Lp investigated you for 7 days and never once informed you that what you were doing was wrong. There is nothing in the contract that says what is a reasonable distance to travel. Your 15 years of dedicated service will account for a lot in the arbitrators thought process.

Have you ever been in trouble for anything else? Be truthful we are here to help. We just had a driver that received a warning for going 7 miles round trip off of his route to go home for lunch. He had two hours of down time waiting for his pick ups but the manager had a problem with the extra miles which will inflate your paid day. Do you bonus, run scratch, over allowed?

Agreed. This whole situation is fishy. He shouldn't have to "suck it up" when he never did anything wrong. I'm not saying he should be be a jerk and make things worse but he should stand his ground. It sounds like they expect him to get on his knees and beg and be "remorseful" and apologize to get his job back even though, according to the info he's given us, has done nothing wrong. Miles shouldn't be an issue when most of us are expected to ridiculously add miles every day by breaking off to run around in circles to satisfy "pickup compliance" while the very customers we are servicing laugh at us. This whole thing sucks.

 

[stevetheupsguy]

This is why every local should have the expedited arbitration process. Lp investigated you for 7 days and never once informed you that what you were doing was wrong. There is nothing in the contract that says what is a reasonable distance to travel. Your 15 years of dedicated service will account for a lot in the arbitrators thought process.

Have you ever been in trouble for anything else? Be truthful we are here to help. We just had a driver that received a warning for going 7 miles round trip off of his route to go home for lunch. He had two hours of down time waiting for his pick ups but the manager had a problem with the extra miles which will inflate your paid day. Do you bonus, run scratch, over allowed?

Here's the advice you should follow, cwb. 705 is the best person to talk this matter over with. I gave you advice from my own point of view, but 705 knows the book. I totally agree that LP should have informed cwb of his "errant" ways, but my advice to cwb was given from the point of view that cwb was turning his nose up at mgmt.

Agreed. This whole situation is fishy. He shouldn't have to "suck it up" when he never did anything wrong. I'm not saying he should be be a jerk and make things worse but he should stand his ground. It sounds like they expect him to get on his knees and beg and be "remorseful" and apologize to get his job back even though, according to the info he's given us, has done nothing wrong. Miles shouldn't be an issue when most of us are expected to ridiculously add miles every day by breaking off to run around in circles to satisfy "pickup compliance" while the very customers we are servicing laugh at us. This whole thing sucks.

True, big arrow, but it's one thing to run 100 miles in cirsles because mgmt wants you to, as opposed to the 2 miles you drive to hit your favorite lunch spot.

 

[helenofcalifornia]

I thought DOT regs said that as long as we were in the drivers seat, we were on the clock. I agree with Stug though, get your job back first, then argue. I go about 1 mile one way home for lunch very day. No flack from anyone here.

 

[anonymous6]

I disagree. For the union to ask the company to comply with a DOL regulation is not unreasonable, it's their job. What is unreasonable is the company retaliating against it's union employees in this petty manner because they don't like being told that they have to follow the same DOL guidelines as everyone else. Why shoot the messenger? If they don't like the DOL rules, they should take it up with the DOL.

agree, agree, agree !

 

[anonymous6]

True, but the fact of the matter is cwb is fired. Time to suck it up before there's no job left. MGMT, can make cases from anything, lately, ie, I got a warning letter for doing a good job. JMHO, but it's their pkg car, their rules and we must play according to their playbook and their game.

You can't do something that they consider an offense and claim ignorance as your defense. CWB should have known better, is what they will come back with. Again, JMHO.

What about drivers going anywhere from 1-5 miles off route to have lunch day after day, year after year, and nothing being said about it and then they fire this driver for doing the same thing with no warning?

There must be more to this story or does this happen more often? Selective discipline, terminations?

He/she should have a good chance of getting job back with the right representation. I'd consult a lawyer.

 

[Catatonic]

What about drivers going anywhere from 1-5 miles off route to have lunch day after day, year after year, and nothing being said about it and then they fire this driver for doing the same thing with no warning?

There must be more to this story or does this happen more often? Selective discipline, terminations?

He/she should have a good chance of getting job back with the right representation. I'd consult a lawyer.

Uh-oh Helen.
orangputeh is trying to shut you down.
Better make sure your mgt knows you're going off trace.

 

[anonymous6]

This thread has many posts discussing this.
I have voiced what I think is a reasonable approach so that a driver will not be subject to accusations on "stealing time".
When the driver breaks trace - that starts lunch and when s/he pickups up trace again - that is ending lunch.

CWB states that he left trace and drove 1 - 2 miles to his house to eat lunch. That drive time was not on the clock to me. Then he took his lunch.

When I go to lunch, it starts when I get up out of my chair ... not when I drive to the restaurant and get out of my car. That seems very obvious to me but does not seem logical to others.

I'm not going to preach morality on this but deviation from this approach is going to subject drivers to this type of discipline.

I have a hard time with this reasoning. What if you get in an accident on "your time?" Will you be covered by disibilty and/or workman's comp?

Every center or contract should have a clearly written procedure on this subject. The contracts are too gray. I have asked this question to 3-4 managers and have gotten 3-4 different answers.

I'm sure the insurance companies and lawyers would rule that UPS is liable for any action a driver takes in a UPS vehicle whether on'off duty. They wouldn't care about that.

Get the policy in writing is my advice.

 

[anonymous6]

Uh-oh Helen.
orangputeh is trying to shut you down.
Better make sure your mgt knows you're going off trace.

Hoaxy

I never, ever take the unions( or anyones ) word for anything if it doesn't make sense. I always get second, third , or more opinions and even consult labor lawyers in important matters.

OP

 

[pickup]

Uh-oh Helen.
orangputeh is trying to shut you down.
Better make sure your mgt knows you're going off trace.

agree helen, the Original Poster's situation might be yours one day, details are exactly the same and you work for the same company. Like Orangputeh stated, this unfortunately is a grey area.

As you also stated Helen, time behind the steering wheel driving counts in terms of counting time driving(I am out of my league here, but I assume even though you guys are driving non C.D.L vehicles, you are subject to intrastate d.o.t. hours of service rules) that does not necessarily mean the time is paid. There are many Over the road company tractor trailer drivers who are under loads and deviate sometimes 25 miles from the interstate( with the company's permission) to spend their time at home . The time spent driving those 50 miles( round trip) is part of their time driving for the d.o.t. log but is not compensated.

As a matter of fact, I remember reading a D.O.T. interpretation of their rules which stated that while certain things have to be accounted for in terms of hours of service , whether that time is compensated or not is none of their concern.

 

[pickup]

I have a hard time with this reasoning. What if you get in an accident on "your time?" Will you be covered by disibilty and/or workman's comp?

Every center or contract should have a clearly written procedure on this subject. The contracts are too gray. I have asked this question to 3-4 managers and have gotten 3-4 different answers.

I'm sure the insurance companies and lawyers would rule that UPS is liable for any action a driver takes in a UPS vehicle whether on'off duty. They wouldn't care about that.

Get the policy in writing is my advice.

If I were a lawyer for ups, I would argue that the driver wasn't covered by workman's comp and disability. And I would have some ground to stand on in my opinion. As for getting the policy in writing - good advice, the odds of getting someone in management to put it in writing - astronomically unfavorable odds of that happening.

I think the original poster has learned there is no such thing as a free lunch.

 

[pickup]

This thread has many posts discussing this.
I have voiced what I think is a reasonable approach so that a driver will not be subject to accusations on "stealing time".
When the driver breaks trace - that starts lunch and when s/he pickups up trace again - that is ending lunch.

CWB states that he left trace and drove 1 - 2 miles to his house to eat lunch. That drive time was not on the clock to me. Then he took his lunch.

When I go to lunch, it starts when I get up out of my chair ... not when I drive to the restaurant and get out of my car. That seems very obvious to me but does not seem logical to others.

I'm not going to preach morality on this but deviation from this approach is going to subject drivers to this type of discipline.

I see the point of this logic, may not be fair but ups can call this stealing time if it is a gray area in the contract. I know this, no one can accuse hoax of stealing time. CYA

 

[slantnosechevy]

My center manager says that you're responsible for that PC from the time you turn the key on the lot until you return to the lot park and pull the keys. If someone breaks into it while making deliveries, away from it at lunch, break, or is hit while parked, as long as it's secured and parked safely your good. If it gets stolen you better have the keys. Lunch and break time start after the car is secured and your foot hits the ground. It ends when your foot hits the step of the PC. If you travel farther than the 1 mile radius they will make exceptions if they can't justify they tell you to pack a lunch. Show what you take and take what you show and do it by Diad time not your watch.

 

[tworavens]

I expect we'll be seeing a lot more of this type of disciplinary action being taken. A few weeks ago we had our Telematics meeting to let us know how it's going to be from now on. Our division manager said it straight out: you will take lunch on trace, even if that means you bring a bag lunch to work (like he did for 10 years, according to him). He showed us a lot of neat Powerpoint slides of a driver who drove all around town on the clock, at a pizza joint for 45 minutes, at a park for a couple of hours, etc. Obviously this guy was stealing time, but they are apparently using that example as justification for eliminating any deviation from trace that does not involve making service on a package. Doesn't matter whether you are off the clock while driving off route, they don't want to spend the fuel cost either.

Heads up to all of you out there, Telematics/Big Brother is no joke. I have been pushing the envelope a little every few days, just to see what Telematics can and can't catch. It catches everything, as far as I have been able to tell. My advice to everyone is to work as directed. Sucks that they didn't give the OP any warning that he was doing anything wrong before they fired him, they gave us that much courtesy here, at least.

 

[retired2000]

what do the hub people do for lunch? does anyone leave and go to mickey d's or burger king.

 

[trplnkl]

Tell me again, does UPS have integrity or not? When they practice selective discipline, when they change the rules daily within the grey area, when the rules are changed and they tell no one is this integrity? No it is not.
I too, would like to know if there is another problem that started this 7 day surveillance. Was there a problem with missing packages? Was the driver going over 9.5 worked days against the CMs instructions? Was there any other issue that put him on the radar?

Since I first started driving, we were told(by multiple CMs) that we were NOT to drive the PC unless we are on the clock, PERIOD NO EXCEPTIONS. To me that means if you have to go off trace to take your meal time, you don't start lunch until you are no longer driving the PC. I see no grey area in that. Of course that isn't in the contract.
If this guy doesn't get his job back the arbitrator is a traitor to fairness and human decency and has no business being in that position. JMHO.

 

[over9five]

what do the hub people do for lunch? does anyone leave and go to mickey d's or burger king.

Good point.

And what does Telematics (and the center manager) say about peeing? I assume you can break trace to find a bathroom?

I would think if they question why you broke trace to eat lunch, you would say, "I broke trace to pee, and had lunch while I was there".

I mean, what are they going to say? "I'm sorry, you can no longer pee till you get home at night".
That'll sound real good at panel.

You guys have to put your foot down with this Telematics stuff. They're going way over the edge with it with some of you.

"I broke trace to pee". End of story.

 

[trplnkl]

Good point.

And what does Telematics (and the center manager) say about peeing? I assume you can break trace to find a bathroom?

I would think if they question why you broke trace to eat lunch, you would say, "I broke trace to pee, and had lunch while I was there".

I mean, what are they going to say? "I'm sorry, you can no longer pee till you get home at night".
That'll sound real good at panel.

You guys have to put your foot down with this Telematics stuff. They're going way over the edge with it with some of you.

"I broke trace to pee". End of story.

I agree with you on principle, but as far as I know there is no mention in the contract of the right to pee while on the clock. I can see a center manager making a big deal out of that also. Some people simply can not afford to be without a pay check for six weeks even if they are sure they will get it all back in the end. In 1997 we had a couple of drivers that started squirming before the strike was settled, they sure could not have gone six weeks or more.

 

[over9five]

No. This cannot be allowed to fly. You guys need to make a stand. You call your BA, and tell him you are being disciplined for peeing on company time. You all get together and you break route 15 times a day to pee untill your center manager sees the light. There is nothing wrong with going to a public bathroom with a sink to relieve yourself.

My point was one of your pees could be taken at a restaurant. You break trace to pee, and have lunch while you're there.

You guys can't allow this foolishness to continue.