Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by 2Slow, Aug 3, 2015.

  1. 2Slow

    2Slow Member

    As I read on here, opinions are clearly strong about whether or not TDU is a good thing for the Teamsters. Lots of yelling, not much substance from either side being posted. (That I've seen)

    Would it be possible for people to lay out the arguments for each side with a minimum of name calling?
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  2. burrheadd

    burrheadd Superstar

  3. 2Slow

    2Slow Member

    I'm sure the screaming will commence, but I'm genuinely interested in hearing the arguments pro and con.

    I'm not a fan of making up my mind based on other people's emotions.
  4. realbrown1

    realbrown1 Annoy a liberal today. Hit them with facts.

    It's basically democrats and republicans.

    2 different groups that pretty much despise the other.

    Hoffa's group (Old Guard) has been around forever and think that they are the only ones with experience enough to run the union.

    Paff's group (TDU) thinks the Old Guard has done a crappy enough job that almost any one else can do a better job.

    It's basically that simple.
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  5. Lead Belly

    Lead Belly BANNED

    It all starts with this guy.
  6. wide load

    wide load Well-Known Member

    More like the Israelis and the Palestinians.
  7. ezmoney5150

    ezmoney5150 Active Member

    Pretty simple.

    If Hoffa/hall say the sky is blue TDU says its green and you guys are corrupt.

    If Hoffa/hall get us a $5 raise this year TDU says its a concession they should have gotten $10 because of their profits. Oh and by the way you guys are corrupt.
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  8. wide load

    wide load Well-Known Member

  9. PiedmontSteward

    PiedmontSteward RTW-4-Less

    TDU was incredibly important in bringing democracy to the Teamsters Union in the 1970's/1980's. Our union was dominated by the mob and other interests for a lot of our history and TDU helped change that along with the consent decree in the 1980's. The rank and file electing the IBT executive board (rather than the locals' elected delegates) and requiring a simple majority (rather than 2/3) to vote down a contract are both things that TDU helped win for the average Teamster. That being said, the rank and file sure as hell don't take advantage of any of that today.

    The problem with TDU is the whole concept of a "union within a union." There's also a lack of transparency on TDU's end -- as they're not a "labor union" per se, they don't file LM-2's like all locals and the IBT do. Sure, they might distribute that info at their conventions (educated guess?) but its not readily available. They're more than happy to take pot shots at IBT officials and local officers that "double up" on jobs (officers with two or more jobs clearing $150k/year are pretty prevalent in our union) without even opening their own books.

    The fact that an activist can run against their local officers in a clean election without winning a pair of concrete boots can be partially attributed to TDU and a great deal more to a lot of hardcore Teamsters that were loosely associated with TDU and did put their lives and safety on the line to do so.

    I'd recommend reading "Collision: How The Fank and File Took Back the Teamsters" by Kenneth Crowe.
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  10. Lead Belly

    Lead Belly BANNED

    TDU sucks at 11:47 am on a Monday.
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  11. 2Slow

    2Slow Member

    This is the sort of thing that doesn't help me.
    I won't be convinced by insults, I'm interested in facts and information.
  12. 2Slow

    2Slow Member

    Thanks Piedmont, book ordered.
  13. Lead Belly

    Lead Belly BANNED

    I just like to drop that out there from time to time.
  14. PiedmontSteward

    PiedmontSteward RTW-4-Less

    That should be Collision: How The Rank and File Took Back the Teamsters". I need more coffee.
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  15. I Am Jacks Damaged Box

    I Am Jacks Damaged Box Well-Known Member

  16. anHOURover

    anHOURover Active Member

    I'll post it simply...... Tdu brings information to the rank and file that the old guard don't want you to know... I been on both sides. I feel with Tdu you have more educated members! BUT.. That education comes at a cost!! If a Tdu slate wins a local election they funnel $ out of the local!! A Tdu activist in a strong old guard local has a target on their back and chances are they will not make it to retirement!!
    For starters I would glance at their web page just like lead belly and wide load do and get educated but be careful because when the old guard comes after you there is no one there to save you!! I'm a huge fan of the way Z runs his local 89 with no Tdu or old guard influence!!
    Lead and wide act like they hate Tdu but they are on their site daily!!
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    Last edited: Aug 3, 2015
  17. wide load

    wide load Well-Known Member

    TDU has something to sell you=free information.
    If they put as much energy into support of our union, we might have a chance against RTW, Koch, etc.
    They have a personal vendetta against anything or anyone Hoffa is involved in. Their judgement has been clouded by the 98 election and the retaliatory axe they grind. But understand, Hoffa supporters show a "Teamsters first" mentality. With TDU its "the cause first". TDU is in to make a ton of money if Sylvester wins. That's why they are so invested in our union.
  18. FrigidFTSup

    FrigidFTSup Resident Suit

    Very interesting thread. Doesn't affect me in the least, but after reading many threads on here on the subject it's nice to get a basic understanding.
  19. 804brown

    804brown Well-Known Member

    Difference is you will find that great, informative book at a TDU convention NOT at the present Old Guard IBT convention.
  20. wide load

    wide load Well-Known Member

    Your right! Difference being, TDU's focus is smearing the IBT, but the IBT doesn't really focus on crybabies.
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