Teamsters????
- Thread starter H82looz
- Start date
You have to love a clown who puts on his right wing makeup, cashes his union "bartered" paycheck every week, then talks smack about the union. If you hate the teamsters so much and all they provide you as an employee, then why not quit UPS and go to work for Fedex where it is not UNIONIZED and you wouldnt have to put up with all that union crap that you are forced to experience at UPS.
Why not apply at fedex and negotiate your own starting salary, pay 100% for your own medical benefits, contribute 100% to your own pension, buy your own uniforms, work 6 or 7 hour paid days with a 2 or 3 hour unpaid lunch then kickback and watch us UNION members break the 100K mark while you work at earning 35K a year.
Guys like you are a joke. Its easy for someone to talk smack about the unions cause they watch fox news 24 hours a day and go to tea party rallies, but its another thing to understand what a unionized job is all about.
Only the ignorant would believe that without the strength of the Teamsters over the last 100 years, anyone would be making what we are earning today in the full time ranks. "We" as todays UPS employees earn the highest benefit package of ANY UPS employee before us. "WE" are the highest paid people in our industry and if you can demonstrate ANY other employee in the package delivery business earning more than us than please post that company.
We "earn" what we "earn" because ALL the employees before us spent hours in the trenches and also stood by the Teamsters arm in arm. Now, because a political party wants to get a hold of all the squishy brains in our ranks we have threads like this challenging how our union bargains for our contracts.
Only an idiot would believe that "politics" isnt a part of collective bargaining. How do you think labor laws are passed? Maybe you believe the "fair labor standard act of 1939" was just a law that was passed out of the generosity of big corporations?
Maybe you believe the 40 hour workweek was just a gift of all employers? Maybe paying workers time and one half for over 40 was a bonus to us employees because the employers thought it was a good idea?
Politics is a big part of our union and that unions ability to protect worker rights that would otherwise be attacked by the republicans of this country who would rather see everyone make less than 25K a year and without any benefit package unless the employee pays 100% for them.
Do you believe that the republicans are without corrupt corporations donating millions of dollars trying to reduce the wages of middle class americans?
It always amazes me how someone in the middle class, can support a political party that would and is, doing everything possible to harm the middle class in this country. What are the magic words that have convinced you that as a middle class american, you are entitled to "LESS" than what you are making today?
When congress began, they earned "peanuts" compared to what they earn today, yet, they recieve COLA increases for cost of living while at the same time the REPUBLICANS are cutting COLA's for our senior citizens. Congress is bound by the 27th amendment and had to "SUE" the goverment to protect their cost of living increases.
Salaries of congressional members:
From 1789 to 1815 Congressmen received $6.00 daily, but only on the days they showed up. From 1815 to 1855 Congressmen received a modest salary, compared to the massive salaries of the Congressmen today. In 1855 their salaries increased to $3,000 annually. Then in 1865 they gave themselves a 66% increase to $5,000 annually. 6 years later they boosted their salaries another 50% to $7,500 per year. The American People became so outraged by the greed that congressmen were showing, that congress was forced to take a 33% paycut, which lasted 34 years until 1907, at which time they gave themselves another 50% increase back to $7,500 annually. They took two other paycuts, both of which were during the Great Depression, for a total of 15%. These are the only 3 times in American History that any Congressmen have ever taken salary cuts.
In 1935, Congress voted themselves a 19% increase, then they didn't receive another pay raise until 12 years later, when they gave themselves a 25% increase in 1947. In 1955 Congress gave themselves a whopping 80% increase. In the years 1987, and 1991 Congress received 2 raises per year. 3% + 20% in 1987, and 4% and 25% in 1991. Within the last 10 years Congress has raised their salaries 8 times for a total of 26%. While the lowest paid American Workers have only received 1 raise within the last 10 years.
In the last 25 years Congress has seen 18 salary increases totaling 277%. While the lowest paid American Workers have only seen 5 wage increases in 25 years totaling a mere 166%. In the last 25 years the cost of living has increased 251%. The Minimum Wage has not been increased since 1997. While Congressmen's pay has increased 8 out of the last 10 years
It inst that hard to convince a person to harm themselves if they do not do any "fact checking". Its much easier to repeat political rhetoric when it sounds patriotic.
At the end of the day, a person who would bash the teamsters while collecting and cashing a unionized paycheck is only a 21st century hypocrite who would probably vote for Sarah Palin.
Peace.
Here's a little question for you H8T2looz,
Congress is making more each year than the "typical" american, in years past since the formation of the United States, the PEOPLE have always forced the congress to take a pay cut in bad times. We are in BAD TIMES now, so would you support a 50% reduction in congressional salaries at this time to help with the federal deficit?
If not, why not?
Why is it, that in republican years while they held congress were the largest increases in pay placed in a bill and passed if they are the "conservative party"?
Peace.
Congress is making more each year than the "typical" american, in years past since the formation of the United States, the PEOPLE have always forced the congress to take a pay cut in bad times. We are in BAD TIMES now, so would you support a 50% reduction in congressional salaries at this time to help with the federal deficit?
If not, why not?
Why is it, that in republican years while they held congress were the largest increases in pay placed in a bill and passed if they are the "conservative party"?
Peace.
Overpaid Union Thug
Well-Known Member
Wow! I really need to start getting on here more often so I don't miss these. I stumbled across an interesting link on another site that I thought was appropriate for this thread. Enjoy.
http://righttoworkcommittee.org/rprtwabb_petition.aspx?pid=mm1
P.S.
I signed it. I've been working in a Right To Work State since day one and it hasn't failed me yet. And for you overly pro union guys that bash others for not thinking the way you do.....try thinking for yourselves for a change instead of just thinking Of yourselves when it comes to unions and politics. The world makes a whole lot more sence that way. And people shouldn't co-mingle their political views with their stance on unions. Voting for whoever is supposedly "looking out for your job" is pathetically selfish. Anyone with a sense of responsibility for trying to ensure our country is getting what's best for it's people as a whole would separate the two ideas instead of clinging to the false hope that one political party is going to ensure that that individual is still going to have "their job" the next day. And before I'm foolishly tagged as one of those guys that is antiunion but collects a union paycheck I must say this......I am not anti union at all. What I am is pro choice when it comes to wether or not someone is in one or not. I also believe that there are a FEW companies out there that definitely need unions (and I'm not alone due to the drastic fall in nation wide union membership) and would probably fall apart without one. UPS is one of them. Unions have no place in our education system, government, or military. That is basically all I have to say a this point.
http://righttoworkcommittee.org/rprtwabb_petition.aspx?pid=mm1
P.S.
I signed it. I've been working in a Right To Work State since day one and it hasn't failed me yet. And for you overly pro union guys that bash others for not thinking the way you do.....try thinking for yourselves for a change instead of just thinking Of yourselves when it comes to unions and politics. The world makes a whole lot more sence that way. And people shouldn't co-mingle their political views with their stance on unions. Voting for whoever is supposedly "looking out for your job" is pathetically selfish. Anyone with a sense of responsibility for trying to ensure our country is getting what's best for it's people as a whole would separate the two ideas instead of clinging to the false hope that one political party is going to ensure that that individual is still going to have "their job" the next day. And before I'm foolishly tagged as one of those guys that is antiunion but collects a union paycheck I must say this......I am not anti union at all. What I am is pro choice when it comes to wether or not someone is in one or not. I also believe that there are a FEW companies out there that definitely need unions (and I'm not alone due to the drastic fall in nation wide union membership) and would probably fall apart without one. UPS is one of them. Unions have no place in our education system, government, or military. That is basically all I have to say a this point.
What strikes me odd, is when someone talks about pro this and pro that, but doesnt understand history.
Prior to the late 1920's, there were no unions, no minimum wage, no benefits, no weekends off, no pensions, no job security and children in the workplace in the USA. We had sweatshops all over the country. We had worker injuries in every state without protection or compensation. We had employees go unpaid after weeks of work. We had employees working 7 days a week for pennies while corporations made millions.
We imported slaves to do hard labor in order to turn a huge profit and then punished the slaves if they didnt work hard enough or complained.
Why if the capitalist model is so perfect for the american worker did this concept fail?
How did this countries employees learn to connect, educate one another and stand up to both corporate america and the federal goverment?
Why is it, that unions and workers rights became a necessity to "legislate" versus just simply being offered to employees?
Why is history ignored? Why is it that those that support capitalism would want to return to the original concept of employee compensation?
This country was founded as a UNION and that UNION empowered our citizens to stand up for peoples rights. Those rights include a right to have a "living wage", to which most americans dont really earn in todays world.
Our political parties chose a side in this fight. The democrats fight for our middle class and those that cant fight for themselves (the poor). The republicans fight for the corporations and the stockholders of those corporations who would rather see obsene profits and high turnover of employees through poor wages and zero benefits. You dont have to be a math major to figure out that if you have a high turnover of employees, the bottom line will increase.
Since 1929, the american people chose to stand up to corporate america through their representatives, prior to that, they stood alone and tried to take this fight to employers themselves by taking action. That action was a national day of strike against corporate america to take place on the first monday of september in 1878. This national day of strike was observed by all industries and grew to a nationwide strike in a few years. The federal goverment acting upon a request by the corporations, took military action against the working protesters and strikers were killed by our military.
Grover Cleveland (president at the time) made worker reconsiliation a priority in his adminstration and the worker rights movement was born. People died for our rights to strike for a fair wage. It took the people to create, mobilize and institute change in the way workers were treated in the United States and not corporate generosity.
This day of strike today is called LABOR DAY. A recognized federal holiday giving the working american a monday off with pay in appreciation for the hard work all year.
Today, some workers believe they dont need a labor union to negotiate wages or benefits cause they dont understand they are at the highest pay scale in modern times due to labor unions dedication to the american worker.
I agree with big arrow up when he sez "he would like the choice" to belong to a labor union or not. I believe the labor laws should be changed to accomodate big arrow up. I am sure this would satisfy both big arrow and the republican party.
I would change the law to reflect Big Arrows request and allow him his "idealogical" disagreement with the union. He can choose NOT to belong to the teamsters and work for UPS. The only fundamental difference would be that Big Arrow up would NOT be entitled to the negotiated wage and benefit package of the Teamster employees. Big Arrow up would have to solely negotiate his wages, benefits and pension programs as an individual. If UPS would like to match the teamster wage and benefit package for Big Arrow, it could, but its not likely to happen.
If this was the case, BIG ARROW would be at the first union meeting in his local faster than you could say HYPOCRITICALPOLITICALROBOT.
UPS would love the chance to exploit those dumb enough to leave a collective bargaining agreement and jump into the negotiation waters alone.
I welcome this action. I wish the laws were as simple to change as this.
For every person on this board who hates the teamsters, or feels that unions are of no value in todays business climate, I say, lobby for change to the laws and negotiate your own terms.
From start to finish, from hire to retire, do it alone, hopefully you could do better.
Demonstrate to all the other 99% of teamsters who believe they have the best contract because they are represented by the best union in our industry and that you alone could "out negotiate" the teamsters.
Big Arrow, you and everyone else who follows your mindset should be forced out of the teamsters and placed at square one with UPS.
I dont believe you have earned your right to be a union paid employee. You either believe or you dont. Taking a union paycheck and benefits and then biting the hand that takes it from UPS and places it in your hands is nothing more than a hypocrite.
Its easy to talk smack while cashing a large paycheck that you had nothing to do with negotiating. It would be alot different if you were earning what a typical fedex driver is making and you were observing your union co-workers making 50% more than you were for the same job.
Being a republican while working at a blue collar job makes no sense at all when the republicans are trying to reduce the pay and benefits of the people who are just like you.
You are sold a bag of B.S. about making it, pulling yourself up by the bootstraps and becoming the next rush limbaugh. That P.O.S. will earn 2 billion dollars by the end of this year begining in 2000 when Bush took office.
None of you right wing tea party sarah palin drones will ever see that number in 5 lifetimes combined, yet support them as they become the riches americans in the country and you become poorer.
Give us a break and lobby for change, I will stand behind you in your efforts to rid yourselves of the collective bargaining agreement that was negotiated for you and the paycheck you currently cash weekly.
Ask to start at square one and do it alone. I am sure the capitalist UPS will pay you accordingly to your qualifications.
Prove us wrong or STFU.
Peace.
Prior to the late 1920's, there were no unions, no minimum wage, no benefits, no weekends off, no pensions, no job security and children in the workplace in the USA. We had sweatshops all over the country. We had worker injuries in every state without protection or compensation. We had employees go unpaid after weeks of work. We had employees working 7 days a week for pennies while corporations made millions.
We imported slaves to do hard labor in order to turn a huge profit and then punished the slaves if they didnt work hard enough or complained.
Why if the capitalist model is so perfect for the american worker did this concept fail?
How did this countries employees learn to connect, educate one another and stand up to both corporate america and the federal goverment?
Why is it, that unions and workers rights became a necessity to "legislate" versus just simply being offered to employees?
Why is history ignored? Why is it that those that support capitalism would want to return to the original concept of employee compensation?
This country was founded as a UNION and that UNION empowered our citizens to stand up for peoples rights. Those rights include a right to have a "living wage", to which most americans dont really earn in todays world.
Our political parties chose a side in this fight. The democrats fight for our middle class and those that cant fight for themselves (the poor). The republicans fight for the corporations and the stockholders of those corporations who would rather see obsene profits and high turnover of employees through poor wages and zero benefits. You dont have to be a math major to figure out that if you have a high turnover of employees, the bottom line will increase.
Since 1929, the american people chose to stand up to corporate america through their representatives, prior to that, they stood alone and tried to take this fight to employers themselves by taking action. That action was a national day of strike against corporate america to take place on the first monday of september in 1878. This national day of strike was observed by all industries and grew to a nationwide strike in a few years. The federal goverment acting upon a request by the corporations, took military action against the working protesters and strikers were killed by our military.
Grover Cleveland (president at the time) made worker reconsiliation a priority in his adminstration and the worker rights movement was born. People died for our rights to strike for a fair wage. It took the people to create, mobilize and institute change in the way workers were treated in the United States and not corporate generosity.
This day of strike today is called LABOR DAY. A recognized federal holiday giving the working american a monday off with pay in appreciation for the hard work all year.
Today, some workers believe they dont need a labor union to negotiate wages or benefits cause they dont understand they are at the highest pay scale in modern times due to labor unions dedication to the american worker.
I agree with big arrow up when he sez "he would like the choice" to belong to a labor union or not. I believe the labor laws should be changed to accomodate big arrow up. I am sure this would satisfy both big arrow and the republican party.
I would change the law to reflect Big Arrows request and allow him his "idealogical" disagreement with the union. He can choose NOT to belong to the teamsters and work for UPS. The only fundamental difference would be that Big Arrow up would NOT be entitled to the negotiated wage and benefit package of the Teamster employees. Big Arrow up would have to solely negotiate his wages, benefits and pension programs as an individual. If UPS would like to match the teamster wage and benefit package for Big Arrow, it could, but its not likely to happen.
If this was the case, BIG ARROW would be at the first union meeting in his local faster than you could say HYPOCRITICALPOLITICALROBOT.
UPS would love the chance to exploit those dumb enough to leave a collective bargaining agreement and jump into the negotiation waters alone.
I welcome this action. I wish the laws were as simple to change as this.
For every person on this board who hates the teamsters, or feels that unions are of no value in todays business climate, I say, lobby for change to the laws and negotiate your own terms.
From start to finish, from hire to retire, do it alone, hopefully you could do better.
Demonstrate to all the other 99% of teamsters who believe they have the best contract because they are represented by the best union in our industry and that you alone could "out negotiate" the teamsters.
Big Arrow, you and everyone else who follows your mindset should be forced out of the teamsters and placed at square one with UPS.
I dont believe you have earned your right to be a union paid employee. You either believe or you dont. Taking a union paycheck and benefits and then biting the hand that takes it from UPS and places it in your hands is nothing more than a hypocrite.
Its easy to talk smack while cashing a large paycheck that you had nothing to do with negotiating. It would be alot different if you were earning what a typical fedex driver is making and you were observing your union co-workers making 50% more than you were for the same job.
Being a republican while working at a blue collar job makes no sense at all when the republicans are trying to reduce the pay and benefits of the people who are just like you.
You are sold a bag of B.S. about making it, pulling yourself up by the bootstraps and becoming the next rush limbaugh. That P.O.S. will earn 2 billion dollars by the end of this year begining in 2000 when Bush took office.
None of you right wing tea party sarah palin drones will ever see that number in 5 lifetimes combined, yet support them as they become the riches americans in the country and you become poorer.
Give us a break and lobby for change, I will stand behind you in your efforts to rid yourselves of the collective bargaining agreement that was negotiated for you and the paycheck you currently cash weekly.
Ask to start at square one and do it alone. I am sure the capitalist UPS will pay you accordingly to your qualifications.
Prove us wrong or STFU.
Peace.
Jackburton
Gone Fish'n
I need to have TOS speak at one of our monthly shop meetings. So many people in my hub blindly bash/blame the union for not helping them. Funny thing about all that is they fail to realize THEY ARE THE UNION. I constantly remind them that I may or may not agree with the teamsters at times, but they do represent me, and that is why I joined and pay my union dues. In a right to work state such as Georgia it's sometimes hard to get the point across in the small amount of time we aren't out slinging boxes. I just try and do what I can to make drivers around me aware of why they are getting what they get and how they got them.
Overpaid Union Thug
Well-Known Member
Unions once had a larger role in this country because at one time they were highly necessary. The laws and regulations that spawned from union activity were and are a good thing. But in today's environment those laws and regulations are common practice whether or not a union is involved or not. A union is NOT needed to make sure those laws are still on the books. A living wage IS NOT a right. The free market should dictate wages. And in America even a family living off two minimum wage workers could have it made if people in this country would just live within their means instead of borrowing themselves into hopeless debt. Sound familiar?
Only an ignoramus or straight up fool believes that EITHER party is out to fight for any particular group, race, worker, religion, etc., etc.... Its not either party's responsibility to fight for the poor. They are perfectly capable of fighting for themselves. Its called initiative. Taking chances. Trying to better oneself. Not taking no for an answer. Anyone that doesn't do those things usually ends up voting democrat and blaming republicans for something that is 100% their own fault. The poor are poor because they allowed themselves to get poor or allowed themselves to remain poor if born into it. The same goes for the middle class and rich. Does "Fortes fortuna adiuvat ring a bell? People get where they want in life based on effort. Not union negotiations.
Again....today is a different time. A different environment. The conditions that warranted a labor movement don't exist in 90%, or more, of the companies in this country today.
The last part of that point is actually the reason why unions can get out of hand. They artificially drive up wages and force companies to move to other countries so that they can still turn a profit. There isn't a worker in the world that wouldn't like to make higher wage but those with any common sense realize that if unions drive up wages enough then they'll go from "highest pay scale" to no pay scale in the blink of an eye.
Unlike most on the left.....I don't suffer from selfish misconceptions that have me believing that the whole world revolves around me. I'm for whatever is better for the country as a whole. Not just for me. And not just for a union.
This is yet another seemingly programmed response anyone can expect to hear from a liberal. Its ironic because the same people that constantly regurgitate that sad ole line are the same ones that would be complaining about having to pay damn near 50% of their income to taxes if they were to have the intestinal fortitude to actually get out and put the same effort they put into forcing their marxist ideas down people's throats into actually breaking out of the middle class.
There are thousands of Americans that do just that and thousands more that let the free market decide. I on the other believe that UPS, along with a small amount of other companies out there need unions or the company would fall apart. I work in a center that is predominantly republican and most think that $30/hour plus good benefits is a fair piece of the pie but I'm hearing more and more start to voice the opinion that there is a point at which we will be making too much and I competition would benefit from it and that that point is fast approaching. I agree with them.
Who said they hate the Teamsters? Who said that they aren't of no value today? I know I didn't.
So you speak for everyone? Do you honestly think that 99% is an accurate ASSUMPTION?? And why do you keep going back to that idea that everyone wants to negotiate their own salary? You do know there is a free market where competition and other factors determine salaries right?
So, you decide who is "worthy" and who isn't? LOL! Anyone who pays dues and follows the contract (Yes, employees have to follow it too) is "worthy" of being a union member. Its not for someone like you to decide.
The same could be said for a democrat. You work a blue collar job but for idiots that want to drive up wages and regulate businesses to the point that they can't compete. Well guess what????.....That means no jobeee for you buddy! LOL!
I wasn't going to go there since Rush and Bush have no bearing on this whats so ever but I couldn't resist pointing out that your comment about him is just another typical example of liberal jealously and fear towards someone for two reasons: 1)he is successful and your not so he must be evil 2) He tells the truth and makes plenty of points that liberals, or the left in general, can't refute. Its the old saying "To anger a republican lie to him. To anger a liberal tell him the truth.
Again...there is more fear and jealousy of someone else and it drives you crazy. If someone becomes rich and I become poorer its because they did something right and I didn't. They did something of more value and someone was willing to pay them for it and I didn't. And unlike many on the left.....I don't worry about other people's income nor do I base my success or happiness in life on other people's financial status. And you know what's ironic? Those rich people that you hate so much got that way without unions. Hmmm........
If you had reading comprehension you'd know, at least in my case, that I don't want to rid myself of collective bargaining at UPS. I just want the choice. Whats so hard to understand about that? And if capitalism is so bad then go try living in a third world country or in one of our fine quasi socialist european ally countries where they all share your ideas and are living happily ever after. OH WAIT.....they are coming HERE here in droves! LOL! This was an easy one.
dqs95124
Well-Known Member
Re: Teamsters???? Wow you said it all.. I might bitch and complain, But I'm proud to
Big Arrow,
my ole my, a change in tact, whats wrong, you feel the wind change below?
Let me see if I can help you understand something about capitalism.
Levi strauss, the maker of americas jeans, had three operating plants in the USA. Levi's as they are known, are the best selling jeans in america. Prior to HW Bush's reign of terror on the american labor force, they employed about 12000 americans in 3 plants and in peripheral businesses. They had a solid grip on the jeans market.
With GW Bush in the lead, a decision was made to close all 3 plants and move them to mexico. In addition, all peripheral businesses were forced to also close and move to mexico taking all 12000 jobs with them.
But what made them move? Was it taxes? Was it enviromental? Was it pricing? No, it was none of the above.
It was the stockholders. Even though the company was profitable, the stockholders wanted a bigger piece of the pie. They were not satisfied with the portions they were recieving, so why not take it from the american worker for starters, then raise the prices of the products even higher despite the cost savings moving to mexico, then taking it again from the consumers.
There was no need to move the company other than to take advantage of third world labor and eliminating 80% of their costs to operate. But what was the unintentional consequence?
As soon as levi Strauss moved to mexico, it RAISED prices on it products and has done so every year since. Why didnt they pass along the savings to the consumers?
During the bush administration, so many corporations moved out of this counry to a point where the republicans in congress and the senate tried to change a law where products have to display where they are made because they were afraid of consumer backlash. This bill was defeated by the democrats. Levi's now places the country of origin tag on the inside leg of their jeans to try and hide the Hecho en Mexico.
But what about the 12000 jobs? First, those 12000 tax paying jobs are no longer paying federal, state, fica, social security or payroll taxes to the goverment. Now if you multiply this factor times the 11 million jobs BUSH and the republicans allowed out of our country during his 8 year reign then you will get to his 10.7 trillion dollars in debt he left behind when he left office.
Leaving the country isnt about taxes, its about evading the middle class americans who want a fair days pay for a fair days work. The corporations know that they are not facing a weak populous as they do in mexico, china, south america, central america, india, pakistan, vietnam or south korea.
Capitalism works for one side. There are not two winners in the equation. Corporations have felt the pinch of a fair days work for a fair days pay in america for too long (in their eyes) and they are NOT winning the battles on capital hill because of the democrats and labor unions power to stop them. As each year passes since Reagan, every republican has tried to end the minimum wage, pensions, benefits, collective bargaining and unionizing.
Bill after bill comes up and gets shot down. Every republican in the senate last year alone voted to END THE MINIMUM wage but lacked the votes to pass it.
The republicans somehow use magic words to convince its drones that if they "just work hard", have "initiative", or "keep their nose to the grindstone", they too can succeed like the overpayed radio host or cable news anchor makes.
The old argument, that somewhere out there, there is a place with the magic salary and benefits, so quitting your present job and staying on the perpetual treadmill of looking for a new job is the carrot the republicans want to hang in the american workers face.
Wages have declined in all 8 years of GW BUSH, and under OBAMA, they are not much better.
"The free market" is a slogan that sounds great to a person who is involved with a collective bargaining agreement and has nothing to worry about cause everything is done for him/her, but to the average american it means a salary below the poverty line.
The cost of living in this country continues to skyrocket every year, yet, in your own words, you believe you should have less and live within your means, and those means are being reduced faster than your IQ level.
We as a nation have exported our labor market and left americans behind to suffer for the sake of the top 1% of americans who are recieving the largest wealth. I find it alarming that you would side with the corporations and stockholders over your fellow americans who are trying to survive.
Not everyone is capable of providing for themselves in this country. We are all different. We will always have hard workers, slackers and free loaders. But this doesnt mean we dont help them all. The unintended consequence of that is watching hoards of bums roaming our streets in numbers that would stagger you. Even with the help our goverment provides now, our streets have bums all over the place, now just imagine how those numbers would increase if help was stopped?
We can be mad at those who are lazy, but there are many people in this country with severe handicaps who will never be able to make it on just "initiative" alone.
You can repeat the Rush limbaugh daily diatribe of "hard work" , "initiative", blah blah blah until the end of times, but you will see that YOU will eventually be that person who needs the help.
Some day, when you are old, you may have to decide whether to buy your medication or a can of tuna for the week, but you can assure yourself at that moment, that all your votes over the years put you where you are.
We all get old.
We can fight back, the power of the purse can make changes to our country. If we selected one company, lets say walmart, and convinced the nation not to buy from them as they export jobs overseas, then one by one , they would come back. if we taxed the crap out of imports and made it non profitable for companies to leave our shores, then america would rebound.
Until then, we have to suffer the consequences and be forced to once again pay for american corporations greed and have services taken away from us and the poorest of americans while the richest americans get all the breaks.
You can follow the right wing playbook all you like BIG ARROW, but its pointing down, and not UP.
Peace.
my ole my, a change in tact, whats wrong, you feel the wind change below?
Let me see if I can help you understand something about capitalism.
Levi strauss, the maker of americas jeans, had three operating plants in the USA. Levi's as they are known, are the best selling jeans in america. Prior to HW Bush's reign of terror on the american labor force, they employed about 12000 americans in 3 plants and in peripheral businesses. They had a solid grip on the jeans market.
With GW Bush in the lead, a decision was made to close all 3 plants and move them to mexico. In addition, all peripheral businesses were forced to also close and move to mexico taking all 12000 jobs with them.
But what made them move? Was it taxes? Was it enviromental? Was it pricing? No, it was none of the above.
It was the stockholders. Even though the company was profitable, the stockholders wanted a bigger piece of the pie. They were not satisfied with the portions they were recieving, so why not take it from the american worker for starters, then raise the prices of the products even higher despite the cost savings moving to mexico, then taking it again from the consumers.
There was no need to move the company other than to take advantage of third world labor and eliminating 80% of their costs to operate. But what was the unintentional consequence?
As soon as levi Strauss moved to mexico, it RAISED prices on it products and has done so every year since. Why didnt they pass along the savings to the consumers?
During the bush administration, so many corporations moved out of this counry to a point where the republicans in congress and the senate tried to change a law where products have to display where they are made because they were afraid of consumer backlash. This bill was defeated by the democrats. Levi's now places the country of origin tag on the inside leg of their jeans to try and hide the Hecho en Mexico.
But what about the 12000 jobs? First, those 12000 tax paying jobs are no longer paying federal, state, fica, social security or payroll taxes to the goverment. Now if you multiply this factor times the 11 million jobs BUSH and the republicans allowed out of our country during his 8 year reign then you will get to his 10.7 trillion dollars in debt he left behind when he left office.
Leaving the country isnt about taxes, its about evading the middle class americans who want a fair days pay for a fair days work. The corporations know that they are not facing a weak populous as they do in mexico, china, south america, central america, india, pakistan, vietnam or south korea.
Capitalism works for one side. There are not two winners in the equation. Corporations have felt the pinch of a fair days work for a fair days pay in america for too long (in their eyes) and they are NOT winning the battles on capital hill because of the democrats and labor unions power to stop them. As each year passes since Reagan, every republican has tried to end the minimum wage, pensions, benefits, collective bargaining and unionizing.
Bill after bill comes up and gets shot down. Every republican in the senate last year alone voted to END THE MINIMUM wage but lacked the votes to pass it.
The republicans somehow use magic words to convince its drones that if they "just work hard", have "initiative", or "keep their nose to the grindstone", they too can succeed like the overpayed radio host or cable news anchor makes.
The old argument, that somewhere out there, there is a place with the magic salary and benefits, so quitting your present job and staying on the perpetual treadmill of looking for a new job is the carrot the republicans want to hang in the american workers face.
Wages have declined in all 8 years of GW BUSH, and under OBAMA, they are not much better.
"The free market" is a slogan that sounds great to a person who is involved with a collective bargaining agreement and has nothing to worry about cause everything is done for him/her, but to the average american it means a salary below the poverty line.
The cost of living in this country continues to skyrocket every year, yet, in your own words, you believe you should have less and live within your means, and those means are being reduced faster than your IQ level.
We as a nation have exported our labor market and left americans behind to suffer for the sake of the top 1% of americans who are recieving the largest wealth. I find it alarming that you would side with the corporations and stockholders over your fellow americans who are trying to survive.
Not everyone is capable of providing for themselves in this country. We are all different. We will always have hard workers, slackers and free loaders. But this doesnt mean we dont help them all. The unintended consequence of that is watching hoards of bums roaming our streets in numbers that would stagger you. Even with the help our goverment provides now, our streets have bums all over the place, now just imagine how those numbers would increase if help was stopped?
We can be mad at those who are lazy, but there are many people in this country with severe handicaps who will never be able to make it on just "initiative" alone.
You can repeat the Rush limbaugh daily diatribe of "hard work" , "initiative", blah blah blah until the end of times, but you will see that YOU will eventually be that person who needs the help.
Some day, when you are old, you may have to decide whether to buy your medication or a can of tuna for the week, but you can assure yourself at that moment, that all your votes over the years put you where you are.
We all get old.
We can fight back, the power of the purse can make changes to our country. If we selected one company, lets say walmart, and convinced the nation not to buy from them as they export jobs overseas, then one by one , they would come back. if we taxed the crap out of imports and made it non profitable for companies to leave our shores, then america would rebound.
Until then, we have to suffer the consequences and be forced to once again pay for american corporations greed and have services taken away from us and the poorest of americans while the richest americans get all the breaks.
You can follow the right wing playbook all you like BIG ARROW, but its pointing down, and not UP.
Peace.
UnconTROLLed
perfection
Do you think those same working conditions that unions faught for all of these centuries would continue if they (unions) were to be no more? You say unions are no longer necessary with the laws in place. Do you think corporate big business America would continue to operate itself with integrity and maintain safety at all times unchecked ?
If so , someone sell this man a swampy parcel in S FL.
Someone sell this man some swamp in S FL.
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UnconTROLLed
perfection
P.S. please turn off the 1 minute post edit limit. It is to say the least frustrating.
The republicans in congress and the senate along with the RNC have done a good job of convincing its followers that Unions and Labor Laws are no longer needed in todays business model.
Republicans have even gone as far as trying to eliminate OSHA in this latest budget proposal.
If they could eliminate unions and take control of the house and senate, they could repeal the "fair labor standards act of 1938" a goal that has been on the books since Ronald Reagan was president.
Sure, the republicans want americans to have jobs, they just want them to have 2 or 3 jobs in order to get by.
I asked a question to any republican on this board if they would support a 50% cut in pay for congress, but not one will engage in this topic. I say, all congressmen go back to the $6.00 a day pay (when they showed up) that was the original intent of the founding fathers.
If tea party drones really believe in going back to what was "originally" intended by the founding fathers, then 6 bucks should cover it.
But , as hypocrisy would have it, they only believe taking away from the elder citizens is the way to balance a budget while the richest americans get richer.
The tea party movement is probably the biggest scam ever layed upon the feet of the american populus since the trickle down theory.
Peace.
Republicans have even gone as far as trying to eliminate OSHA in this latest budget proposal.
If they could eliminate unions and take control of the house and senate, they could repeal the "fair labor standards act of 1938" a goal that has been on the books since Ronald Reagan was president.
Sure, the republicans want americans to have jobs, they just want them to have 2 or 3 jobs in order to get by.
I asked a question to any republican on this board if they would support a 50% cut in pay for congress, but not one will engage in this topic. I say, all congressmen go back to the $6.00 a day pay (when they showed up) that was the original intent of the founding fathers.
If tea party drones really believe in going back to what was "originally" intended by the founding fathers, then 6 bucks should cover it.
But , as hypocrisy would have it, they only believe taking away from the elder citizens is the way to balance a budget while the richest americans get richer.
The tea party movement is probably the biggest scam ever layed upon the feet of the american populus since the trickle down theory.
Peace.
Overpaid Union Thug
Well-Known Member
LOL! I'm hearing the same ole dusty record continuously looping the same ole noise from you liberals. Bush this....Tea Party that.....Republicans want to steal your paycheck and rape your daughters......bla blah blah! LOL! Yet more proof that liberalism is indeed a mental disorder. I'd tell you to go buy a clue but you probably wouldn't bother unless it was "union made" by someone making $20/hr while the fair industry standard was $5 less than that but the problem is that the guy that was supposed to produce the said clue had probably walked off the job to go fill out the 15 grievance forms they had in their back pocket because their supervisor looked at them the wrong way. And then on the way to the break room to fill out their grievances they decided to make a beeline to their car to go protest a local military funeral for a soldier that had been killed in Iraq due to George Bush being the devil and because he had also used his amazing hurricane machine to tear up the soldiers home on the Gulf and now the guy's family was homeless. And he figured while he was there he'd also protest against "Big Business" even though he was too brainwashed to realize that big business provides thousands of jobs. Including his own. While he was away on his leftist crusade another able and willing employee offered to step up and work on that clue but was castrated by his union "brothers" for attempting to perform a senior worker's job. So now that clue isn't available. Meanwhile......across town all the Republican reps in Congress are going down a list of companies and groups of people and drawing lines through those that they want to cut. Why? Well because liberals say they are! That's why! LOL! So, the plant that was supposed to make that clue closes and the stock holders, and of course Rush Limbaugh, with the help of George Bush's hurricane machine providing a nifty little distraction, all get away with a hefty cash prize at the expense of those that are just "unfortunate". LOL! So in the end those that needed to buy a clue are left standing there empty handed (or should I say empty headed?) but at least they can always blame the usual suspects. LOL! Hey! A 4.5 mile wide asteroid is headed straight towards us! It's the republicans fault because they allowed global warming to get out of control. And of course because big corporations are meanies! LOL!
Well the Republican are trying to bust the unions. I guess you go with the republicans.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
You may have a point--of my 3 uncles, 2 are named Tom and both are in the union.
Same ole blah nlah blah blah ....when you cant address a single point.
The right wings tactic of "throwing out the kitchen sink" when challenged is a dumb tactic intended on distracting the listener from the original point. BIG ARROWS attempt at tossing the kitchen sink into the debate rather than address a single point in my posts with a "counter point" which proves me incorrect is laughable.
Ive stated many things that "pin" the republicans with job killing motives, labor law repeals and favoritism to big corporations, and yet, ARROW can only repeat the diatribe of every right wing radio hosts montras.
Why wont he take a position on reducing the salaries of congress? Why wont he deny or refute my claim that the repubicans tried to overturn the federal minimum wage? Why wont he address how taking millions of jobs out of the USA and placing them in third world countries INCREASES our federal debt? There are more things he could give us his educated opinion on, but he knows he would get OWNED, so he instead blah blah blahs a paragraph in order to give himself a lifeline and escape the conversation.
How about something tangible ARROW ---------> like facts.
Peace.
Overpaid Union Thug
Well-Known Member
I am not addressing any of your "points" because that is the typical liberal bait and switch tactic that you clowns employ. Sorry......not falling for it. I stated my stance on right to work and you bird walked into 30 different topics. Some of which I might agree with but thats not the point. Debating a liberal is as simple as this....state your opinion and/or facts and sit back and watch them choke on their own blood as they drown in the mountains of comments that have little or no bearing on the topic at hand. A counter point is ething that directly relates to the original. Regurgitating the same ole lines about radio talk show hosts, Pres Bush, accusing the Republicans of making everyone poor and being responsible for every single job that has left this country is NOT a counter point to my reasons for wanting everyone ton have a choice on whether or not they join a union. But why am I even bothering explaining it to the likes of you? You want facts? All you have to do is obtain some reading comprehension skills to notice them.
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