telematic is lurking in the background

[soberups]

While it is true that UPS is much more strict in determining fault than the police, there will always be situations that are truly unavoidable. The problem with the stance that your DM is taking is that it is possible to get fired for having too many avoidable accidents, so classifying every accident as avoidable, whether valid or not, may prove to be an issue in your center over time.

The company can "charge" you with an accident any time they want to... whether there was an accident or not, whether you were at fault or not. Safe driving awards are not contractually required.

The fun starts when the "avoidable" accidents lead to disciplinary action and the grievance procedure kicks in. At that point, each "accident" can be evaluated on its individual merits as to whether or not disciplinary action is truly justified.

 

[soberups]

i can't wait to be told not to drive in residential driveways. My stop count would go from 120 -130 to around 50-60 depending on which driveways I have to walk. Plus I'll get a lot more exercise. I did mention this to my sup and he told me to just keep what I'm doing.
Last year I had 2 garage door springs (46 lbs each) that I had to walk up a driving that was snow covered. Not to bad except the driveway is about 45 degrees up. That one stop took almost 15 minutes not to mention the 5 minutes it took me to catch my breath.
I also have a lot of hills and there are alot of stops that are on the crest and bends so I get off the road. So we'll see.

I am waiting for the company to come out with some sort of a coherent definition of what consitutes a "driveway" so that they can tell me what I am supposed to stay out of in the first place.

I have a couple of "driveways" on my route that are almost a mile long, unpaved, and that gain over 500 feet of altitude. There is no way I am going to spend 45 minutes hiking my fat ass up there with a package....I would die of a heart attack and the coyotes would devour my carcass before the center even knew I was dead.

Yes we need to stay out of driveways...but we also need to use common sense and make service on the packages.

 

[whiskey]

If I did that on some of the routes I run it would take 30 minutes for some stops instead of 30 seconds.

amen, brother.

 

[tracker2762]

I am waiting for the company to come out with some sort of a coherent definition of what consitutes a "driveway" so that they can tell me what I am supposed to stay out of in the first place.

I have a couple of "driveways" on my route that are almost a mile long, unpaved, and that gain over 500 feet of altitude. There is no way I am going to spend 45 minutes hiking my fat ass up there with a package....I would die of a heart attack and the coyotes would devour my carcass before the center even knew I was dead.

Yes we need to stay out of driveways...but we also need to use common sense and make service on the packages.

I agree. The common sense is the bottom line. We won't make money if I am unable to use residential driveways.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I agree. The common sense is the bottom line. We won't make money if I am unable to use residential driveways.

If we are talking about driveways where you cannot see the house from the main road, I agree; if we are talking about a typical suburban driveway, then I disagree.

 

[Re-Raise]

They can charge you with an accident anytime they want. I was legally parked along a residential road between two driveways on the right hand side when a car backed from a driveway on the left side hitting the package car.

The car came from a double driveway with plenty of room to safely back out. He was in his house when I originally parked. The side I parked on was twice as wide to allow for parking.

The driver who hit me was given a ticket. My center manager at the time was a woman who always felt her authority at our building was in question. I was a few years out of college and I wrote a 10 page appeal with a statement from the other driver , a statement from the policeman and signed by every member of our safety team AND our Driver's Sup. It remained avoidable.

That was 16 years ago and is still the only accident I was ever in at UPS. The center manager was fired about a year later for dishonesty.

I decided the day that they charged me with that any time I have to decide between company loyalty and Teamster loyalty, I will be with the Teamsters.

 

[barnyard]

While it is true that UPS is much more strict in determining fault than the police, there will always be situations that are truly unavoidable.

Fault and avoidability are 2 different things. If I am hit while parked, I am clearly not at fault, but did I do everything to avoid it like: parking so that I am harder to hit; tapping the horn when parked; seeing an occupied car, with the driver yakking on his/her cell phone and as I walk by, tapping on their window and pointing to my truck.

for parking on the street: did I park directly across from a driveway?? If so and I am hit, I would say that was easily avoidable, but I am clearly not at fault.

I think that if we spent as much energy focusing on doing the job safe as we do bitching about avoidable/unavoidable, we probably would not have nearly as many incidents.

I also think that our work ethic gets in the way of doing it the way UPS wants us to. How many times has someone driven in a suburban driveway to 'save time' and hit a basketball hoop???

The fact of the matter is that accidents cost money. If we want to see decent raises in the next contract, it will be alot easier to get them if we reduce accidents. The company has to be profitable, if it is not, we will be looking for another line of work.

 

[Re-Raise]

Fault and avoidability are 2 different things. If I am hit while parked, I am clearly not at fault, but did I do everything to avoid it like: parking so that I am harder to hit; tapping the horn when parked; seeing an occupied car, with the driver yakking on his/her cell phone and as I walk by, tapping on their window and pointing to my truck.

If you believe you can deliver all day while protecting your vehicle from the possibility of someone running into it.. you must not be a driver. I defy any management person to show me how to put my vehicle in a position that no other vehicle with a careless driver can strike it.

We do have to park and deliver packages. I suppose if a piece of the space shuttle fell from the sky on to my package car I could have avoided it by parking somewhere else.

Bottom line we have to negotiate large vehicles in tight space in all types of weather at pretty brisk pace, often in the dark , in unfamiliar places.

Now you tell me I am responsible even when I am legally parked away from the vehicle. A good way to alienate safe employees.

 

[barnyard]

If you believe you can deliver all day while protecting your vehicle from the possibility of someone running into it.. you must not be a driver.

I am a driver. I do deliver all day and I do park to make myself harder to hit. I spend half my day in a downtown area, so I do spend a lot of time thinking about good parking spots. I have no doubt that someday, someone will hit me. It is my job to make it harder for others to do that.

If I do that job and do make it tough for someone to hit me and yet they do and my boss still rules it avoidable, such is life. I will still do everything I need to do to make it tough for others to hit me.

 

[Re-Raise]

I am a driver. I do deliver all day and I do park to make myself harder to hit. I spend half my day in a downtown area, so I do spend a lot of time thinking about good parking spots. I have no doubt that someday, someone will hit me. It is my job to make it harder for others to do that.

If I do that job and do make it tough for someone to hit me and yet they do and my boss still rules it avoidable, such is life. I will still do everything I need to do to make it tough for others to hit me.

I just made 15 yrs safe driving this year. No gift this year of course. It cost me a year when I was a rookie driver. I thought at the scene that no one there thought I could have done anything differently except for my co-worker, the center manager.

It didn't make me a safer driver, it just pissed me off. You are right someone will hit your truck. It may be from the side, it may even be from behind while you are parked in the road to avoid pulling into a driveway.

I am glad you have resigned yourself to the fact they will charge you with an accident for it.

 

[barnyard]

I am glad you have resigned yourself to the fact they will charge you with an accident for it.

I have not resigned myself to that.

I recognize that there are some things in life that I cannot control, there are some things that I can. If I can recognize the difference, I can have some peace.

 

[Re-Raise]

I recognize that there are some things in life that I cannot control, there are some things that I can.

So you are saying some things can't be avoided. That would almost make them unavoidable.

 

[barnyard]

So you are saying some things can't be avoided. That would almost make them unavoidable.

What is your point???

Something I can control is my actions. Those actions include making myself harder to hit.

 

[Re-Raise]

What is your point???

Something I can control is my actions. Those actions include making myself harder to hit.

Harder to hit or impossible to hit?

Do you really not get my point? If you missed it go back to my first post on this. They can call any accident avoidable.

 

[barnyard]

They can call any accident avoidable.

So what???

I can still make myself harder to hit.

My point is that if we spent as much time thinking of ways about being harder to hit as we spend bitching about avoidability, we would not have the number of crashes that we have.

 

[Re-Raise]

So what???

I can still make myself harder to hit.

My point is that if we spent as much time thinking of ways about being harder to hit as we spend bitching about avoidability, we would not have the number of crashes that we have.

Then why even define them as one or the other? I don't care about about a $20 gift or a little pin with 15yrs on it. Why even mention the Circle of Honor?

Have you been charged with an accident? How many driving years do you have?

 

[barnyard]

Have you been charged with an accident? How many driving years do you have?

9 years. 2 mirrors, 1 bbal hoop and one scraped rub rail. Not quite 5 years since the last. All 4 were avoidable. I fought one, but in the end it was still avoidable. Had I stuck to my guns and walked driveways instead of listening to a supe, I would have avoided 2 of them (after a ride along, a supe told me that I walked too many driveways.)

What difference does it make???

 

[Re-Raise]

9 years. 2 mirrors, 1 bbal hoop and one scraped rub rail. Not quite 5 years since the last. All 4 were avoidable. I fought one, but in the end it was still avoidable. Had I stuck to my guns and walked driveways instead of listening to a supe, I would have avoided 2 of them (after a ride along, a supe told me that I walked too many driveways.)

What difference does it make???

Maybe you should worry more about your driving rather than thinking about where you park.

 

[rod]

Then why even define them as one or the other? I don't care about about a $20 gift or a little pin with 15yrs on it. Why even mention the Circle of Honor?

Have you been charged with an accident? How many driving years do you have?

That 15 year pin had a little diamond in it that a pawn shop would give you 20 bucks or more for (or so I was told)

 

[barnyard]

I disagree.

I have not been hit while parked, the most frequent accident in my center.

I would say that I need to continue focusing on being hard to hit, while also improving other areas. Which I have, if a driveway is questionable, I walk it. In the past, if it were questionable, I drove it. Have not broke a mirror since. I broke both mirrors in customer driveways. Also have not hit a hoop. If I stay out of driveways, that should not be a problem down the road.

Had I listened to my training supe and stayed out of residential driveways, I would have avoided 3 chargeable accidents.