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<blockquote data-quote="The Other Side" data-source="post: 808144" data-attributes="member: 17969"><p>Sober, </p><p> </p><p>It must be "sobering" to see that despite all the tough talk by your reps in Nor Cal, you cant point to a single place in the contract where it backs up your position. You stated:"reread my posts on this issue you will see that the only "advice" that I have <em>ever</em> given is to do the job properly"...</p><p> </p><p>Ok, lets do that.</p><p> </p><p>You said : "Since there were <em>no actual witnesses</em> to what occured, <strong><em><span style="font-size: 15px">all he would have had to do was to plead ignorance by saying "I dont recall"</span></em></strong> and they would <em>not</em> have been able to fire him."</p><p> </p><p>One again I raised the typeface to get your attention. What you wrote here is called <strong><span style="font-size: 15px">ADVICE.</span></strong></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">Advising anyone to plead ignorance is ignorant in itself. The statement you made is an opinion based on some formula you are using to escape discipline.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">There is an old saying, and it goes like this "excuses dont explain and explanations dont excuse"</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">If you are guilty, you are guilty. Do the job correctly. I think we agree on this point.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">As far as this statement goes: "</span><span style="font-size: 12px">The only point that I was trying to make...is that it is factually incorrect for you to state that a driver can be terminated for dishonesty <em>based solely..."</em></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">I believe here you need a lesson in "factually".</span></p><p> </p><p><strong>Adv.</strong><strong>1.</strong><strong>factually</strong> - as a fact or based on fact; "they learn much, factually, about the problems of retirement and provision for old age, and, psychologically, in the sharing of their thoughts on retirement"</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Factually, I presented to you, the circumstances and printed agreements between UPS and the Teamsters. Line by Line, section by section, article by article. The words speak for themselves.</p><p> </p><p>Factually, you presented to me " My BA told me this, My president told me that" and "we have superior language"....these are not facts but merely "HEARSAY".</p><p> </p><p>Hearsay will get you 10 cents in an arbitration hearing.</p><p> </p><p>For the record, I am not of the position that telematics is perfect, and I agree there are many flaws in the system, but understand that the Teamsters have not challenged the technology anywhere in the country, so for the record, the technology </p><p>will pass muster in an arbitration.</p><p> </p><p>Until the International challenges the systems flaws and can demonstrate by some calculations that the system is providing false or inaccurate information, then we die by the sword.</p><p> </p><p>It was the Teamsters who allowed this to make it pass the negotiation table, and it was "us" who ratified the contract.</p><p> </p><p>In the end, no matter what it sez or how we try and interpret it, we can only blame ourselves for not making the UNION go back to the table and strike this language.</p><p> </p><p>You and I are on some level of agreement with respect to doing the job correctly, but if you have been around 20 something years like I, you will have seen many drivers who will attempt to cheat the system no matter what technology exists.</p><p> </p><p>Peace.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="The Other Side, post: 808144, member: 17969"] Sober, It must be "sobering" to see that despite all the tough talk by your reps in Nor Cal, you cant point to a single place in the contract where it backs up your position. You stated:"reread my posts on this issue you will see that the only "advice" that I have [I]ever[/I] given is to do the job properly"... Ok, lets do that. You said : "Since there were [I]no actual witnesses[/I] to what occured, [B][I][SIZE=4]all he would have had to do was to plead ignorance by saying "I dont recall"[/SIZE][/I][/B] and they would [I]not[/I] have been able to fire him." One again I raised the typeface to get your attention. What you wrote here is called [B][SIZE=4]ADVICE.[/SIZE][/B] [SIZE=2]Advising anyone to plead ignorance is ignorant in itself. The statement you made is an opinion based on some formula you are using to escape discipline.[/SIZE] [SIZE=2]There is an old saying, and it goes like this "excuses dont explain and explanations dont excuse"[/SIZE] [SIZE=2]If you are guilty, you are guilty. Do the job correctly. I think we agree on this point.[/SIZE] [SIZE=2]As far as this statement goes: "[/SIZE][SIZE=3]The only point that I was trying to make...is that it is factually incorrect for you to state that a driver can be terminated for dishonesty [I]based solely..."[/I][/SIZE] [SIZE=2]I believe here you need a lesson in "factually".[/SIZE] [B]Adv.[/B][B]1.[/B][B]factually[/B] - as a fact or based on fact; "they learn much, factually, about the problems of retirement and provision for old age, and, psychologically, in the sharing of their thoughts on retirement" Factually, I presented to you, the circumstances and printed agreements between UPS and the Teamsters. Line by Line, section by section, article by article. The words speak for themselves. Factually, you presented to me " My BA told me this, My president told me that" and "we have superior language"....these are not facts but merely "HEARSAY". Hearsay will get you 10 cents in an arbitration hearing. For the record, I am not of the position that telematics is perfect, and I agree there are many flaws in the system, but understand that the Teamsters have not challenged the technology anywhere in the country, so for the record, the technology will pass muster in an arbitration. Until the International challenges the systems flaws and can demonstrate by some calculations that the system is providing false or inaccurate information, then we die by the sword. It was the Teamsters who allowed this to make it pass the negotiation table, and it was "us" who ratified the contract. In the end, no matter what it sez or how we try and interpret it, we can only blame ourselves for not making the UNION go back to the table and strike this language. You and I are on some level of agreement with respect to doing the job correctly, but if you have been around 20 something years like I, you will have seen many drivers who will attempt to cheat the system no matter what technology exists. Peace. [/QUOTE]
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