Telematics and management; ten years from now....

[Just Numbers]

My point...was that the actual job of managing a center has been outsourced to IE for some time now. Our so-called "center managers" and "on car supervisors" are little more than puppets who dont even have the authority to decide which hand to wipe their butts with any more. Since the real decisions involved in managing and dispatching a center are being made by absent and unaccountable individuals...from IE...the next logical step in this progression will be to use the Telematics technology to send that same work overseas. After all, if we are going to be harassed and micromanaged by clueless fools....why should UPS be paying those fools an $80K per year IE wage when Patel in Bombay could accomplish the same thing for $3 an hour?

And as far as whether or not you are supposed to "feel bad" about this, that is up to the individual. It wont affect me, since I will be retired. I can tell you, though, that I would hate to be a 24 yr old on-car sup today.....

Sober,
I've got news for you...I.E has been running the show for decades, you just haven't realized it because they've been in the back closet and as they opened the door more people saw it. The best example I personally can give happened on Christmas Eve 25 yrs ago in 1984. Our center manager was basically in tears as he gave the pcm. No jumpers were to work today ( I guess nowadays they are called helpers)! This came down from the division manager as he was directed by the district I.E. manager in a cost cutting manuver. As that I.E. manager was probably eating a nice dinner with his family he didn't realize how many UPS people were not doing the same (both drivers and management) as they were cleaning up the mess his decision created! I and a few other drivers helped out a guy who would probably not have returned until after midnight(Christmas Day).
So as you can see they have been running the show for longer then you think. we have all been puppets. A good response from I.E. would be that the dispatch should have been leveled off. We didn't have enough drivers on the payroll to do that and you ever see a preload try to move a couple thousand stops at 8 am ( my sup said that was when the decision was given to our manager). P-man, I have read many of your posts and have a lot of respect for you so, if your reading this please answer this question: Why is it when I.E. says to do something or plan something it is Gods' Law. But when it goes wrong it is only a tool or guidelines to use for a manager to run his operation. I've heard this from so many management people that have come and gone in my center.

 

[tourists24]

Sober,
I've got news for you...I.E has been running the show for decades, you just haven't realized it because they've been in the back closet and as they opened the door more people saw it. The best example I personally can give happened on Christmas Eve 25 yrs ago in 1984. Our center manager was basically in tears as he gave the pcm. No jumpers were to work today ( I guess nowadays they are called helpers)! This came down from the division manager as he was directed by the district I.E. manager in a cost cutting manuver. As that I.E. manager was probably eating a nice dinner with his family he didn't realize how many UPS people were not doing the same (both drivers and management) as they were cleaning up the mess his decision created! I and a few other drivers helped out a guy who would probably not have returned until after midnight(Christmas Day).
So as you can see they have been running the show for longer then you think. we have all been puppets. A good response from I.E. would be that the dispatch should have been leveled off. We didn't have enough drivers on the payroll to do that and you ever see a preload try to move a couple thousand stops at 8 am ( my sup said that was when the decision was given to our manager). P-man, I have read many of your posts and have a lot of respect for you so, if your reading this please answer this question: Why is it when I.E. says to do something or plan something it is Gods' Law. But when it goes wrong it is only a tool or guidelines to use for a manager to run his operation. I've heard this from so many management people that have come and gone in my center.

You are right about IE running things for so long. Problem is that Operations has no input on anything anymore. Things are dictated with no regard about anything other than reports. Make the numbers look good or else. It has not always been this way. Each district had its own personality based on who was running it.Now they dont seem like supervisors and mgt anymore, just glorified secretaries taking orders from above with a checklist on exactly what will be the focus.

 

[slantnosechevy]

I think if you're center management team is blaming IE for operations decisions then your team is exercising the IE cop out.

I think that would be good I.E. Cop, bad I.E. Cop. Yes, they love to use that one when in reality they (Operations) are most of the blame for why things are the way they are. They allowed too many corners to be cut and turned their heads to many things in lieu of making the numbers work for too many years. They dug themselves a hole they can't get out of much the same way as the bonus drivers have. I.E.'s PASS/EDD system could've been a lot smoother transition and much more successful had CMs and driver supes. paid more attention to details over the years. Some wanted to, but were not allowed to. As long as the drivers improvized and looked good on paper they didn't care how we got it done. Now that everything is to be done by the methods the ones who cheated and the ones who approved of it are finding things hard to deal with. I.E.'s problem is they're to robotic and just don't understand or care about the human factors that enter into performing the job. They act like some Dad who turned the company over to junior and when he started screwing up he got pi$$ed and had to step in.

 

[soberups]

I think if you're center management team is blaming IE for operations decisions then your team is exercising the IE cop out.

Can the center management team decide how many routes to dispatch on a daily basis? No.

Can the center management team decide what an acceptable level of average SPORH and stops per car for its routes will be? No.

Can the center management team decide how many drivers to keep on the payroll? No.

Can the center management team decide to adjust or correct demonstrably flawed timestudies? No.

Can the center management team decide how many and what size and type of vehicles it will be provided with? No.

Can the center management team decide what the NDA time commitments are for its various delivery areas? No.

Can the center management team decide to improve outdated equipment and facilities? No.

All of these important decisions are entirely in the hands of the absentee landlords who work for I.E. All of these decisions have a direct affect on the performance and efficiency of the operation, yet the center "management" team has no authority to change any of them. So you tell me, tieguy.....who is really copping out of the responsibility here?

 

[Catatonic]

Can the center management team decide how many routes to dispatch on a daily basis? No.

Can the center management team decide what an acceptable level of average SPORH and stops per car for its routes will be? No.

Can the center management team decide how many drivers to keep on the payroll? No.

Can the center management team decide to adjust or correct demonstrably flawed timestudies? No.

Can the center management team decide how many and what size and type of vehicles it will be provided with? No.

Can the center management team decide what the NDA time commitments are for its various delivery areas? No.

Can the center management team decide to improve outdated equipment and facilities? No.

All of these important decisions are entirely in the hands of the absentee landlords who work for I.E. All of these decisions have a direct affect on the performance and efficiency of the operation, yet the center "management" team has no authority to change any of them. So you tell me, tieguy.....who is really copping out of the responsibility here?

Will not be long before you'll have to go in the center manager's office and speak via web with Patel in Mumbai.

 

[pretzel_man]

Can the center management team decide how many routes to dispatch on a daily basis? No.

Can the center management team decide what an acceptable level of average SPORH and stops per car for its routes will be? No.

Can the center management team decide how many drivers to keep on the payroll? No.

Can the center management team decide to adjust or correct demonstrably flawed timestudies? No.

Can the center management team decide how many and what size and type of vehicles it will be provided with? No.

Can the center management team decide what the NDA time commitments are for its various delivery areas? No.

Can the center management team decide to improve outdated equipment and facilities? No.

All of these important decisions are entirely in the hands of the absentee landlords who work for I.E. All of these decisions have a direct affect on the performance and efficiency of the operation, yet the center "management" team has no authority to change any of them. So you tell me, tieguy.....who is really copping out of the responsibility here?

What you are saying is not entirely true... It "may" be true in your district, I do not know.

Today, the center team is responsible for their own daily dispatch. This includes stops per car, SPORH, and number of routes.

I.E. creates a long term (PKG) plan, but at one month before the operation, its frozen and the center team takes over. More on this division of responsibility later.

Can the center team adjust a time study? No.

Can they decide their fleet size?
Can they decide their time commits?
Can they decide to upgrade equipment and facilities?
The answer to these questions is not by temselves...

There are some things that BOTH the center management team and I.E. are responsible for. When push comes to shove, the stronger management team will make the final decision.

If a center team is weak, they will either not challenge the position of the I.E. and/or blame I.E. for not allowing discussion.

BOTH I.E. and the operator are responsible for center service and productivity. No I.E. manager will override a well thought out plan by the center for improvement. I've seen this 100's of times.

On the other hand, an ill thought out dispatch, car lineup, staffing plan, etc. will be challenged hard by I.E. up to the district manager.

Things like NDA commitments are suggested by corporate with input from both district I.E. and operations. The district tells corporate what it will cost to change the commit times. Its not done by one group solely (or its not supposed to be).

As I said, I do not know what goes on in your district. If the center team is too weak to propose changes that will improve UPS cost / service, BOTH them and the I.E. are poor.

P-Man

 

[tourists24]

Well it seems to hold true where Sober is as well as where I am.... I stated it in an earlier post...

What you say may be the way it was intended Pretzel, but like many other things at UPS, this is not the way it is working. Anyone remember the old "remote" thing we used to do? Same way. Never works the way it is intended

 

[brownmonster]

A division Mgr calls the center at 815 and tells them to break an area because the center came up 1 1/2 stops per car short of the unrealistic plan causing chaos in the preload and anger among 10 drivers whose day was ruined. The center manager would not have made this decision because he has to face the people under him.

 

[DorkHead]

What you are saying is not entirely true... It "may" be true in your district, I do not know.

Today, the center team is responsible for their own daily dispatch. This includes stops per car, SPORH, and number of routes.

I.E. creates a long term (PKG) plan, but at one month before the operation, its frozen and the center team takes over. More on this division of responsibility later.

Can the center team adjust a time study? No.

Can they decide their fleet size?
Can they decide their time commits?
Can they decide to upgrade equipment and facilities?
The answer to these questions is not by temselves...

There are some things that BOTH the center management team and I.E. are responsible for. When push comes to shove, the stronger management team will make the final decision.

If a center team is weak, they will either not challenge the position of the I.E. and/or blame I.E. for not allowing discussion.

BOTH I.E. and the operator are responsible for center service and productivity. No I.E. manager will override a well thought out plan by the center for improvement. I've seen this 100's of times.

On the other hand, an ill thought out dispatch, car lineup, staffing plan, etc. will be challenged hard by I.E. up to the district manager.

Things like NDA commitments are suggested by corporate with input from both district I.E. and operations. The district tells corporate what it will cost to change the commit times. Its not done by one group solely (or its not supposed to be).

As I said, I do not know what goes on in your district. If the center team is too weak to propose changes that will improve UPS cost / service, BOTH them and the I.E. are poor.

P-Man

Pman. I agree with you on everything except the highlighted area. The number of routes we run daily is decided by our district office which uses the volume for that day. Our sups decide how heavy each route goes out with.

 

[pretzel_man]

Pman. I agree with you on everything except the highlighted area. The number of routes we run daily is decided by our district office which uses the volume for that day. Our sups decide how heavy each route goes out with.

Hello DH,

The method is to have the district I.E. create the PKG plan and stop updating it one month before the operation. The actual plan is created by the PDS.

I do agree that in many districts I.E. tightly monitors the number of routes dispatched through the method you mentioned.

In one of the centers I work with, we had a poor I.E. calculation. It was not realistic and caused additional cost on road. I had the package division manager call the I.E. manager. We agreed on the better daily planning approach and fixed the issue.

We reduced miles nearly overnight. All it took was the center taking control which they were supposed to do all along.

In another center I had the exact opposite issue. The center was making very poor dispatch decision. In this case, I called the I.E. manager and "explained" that he needed to do a better job of monitoring the dispatch.

My point is that while many things are joint responsibilities, one individual function is supposed to be the primary...

P-Man

 

[tieguy]

Can the center management team decide how many routes to dispatch on a daily basis? No.

Yes. they can influence it in a lot of different ways. There is an overall business plan that they are working towards. Within that parameter they can adjust the plan with the help of the IE person. Generally within any operation planning more people requires planning a shorter paid day. The push is there to reduce the overall day and lessen the overtime. There may be variables within your center that keep that from happening.

Can the center management team decide what an acceptable level of average SPORH and stops per car for its routes will be? No.

Yes. Within the planning process they can bring up issues that affect the SPORH and that need to be considered. Depends on how well the center team and IE folks do the homework. You providing feedback to your center team can help the cause.
Can the center management team decide how many drivers to keep on the payroll? No.

Yes. We have a detailed planning system that plans routes, absenteeism, optional holidays, vacations, comps and disabilities. The problem comes when you start having a lot of unplanned absentees or unplanned comps and disabilities or family leave issues etc. The best center managers I've seen are very strong in this area and always have extra drivers planned to cover these unexpected issues.

Can the center management team decide to adjust or correct demonstrably flawed timestudies? No.

This is more pretzels baby but we're migrating towards a time when the standard time study is basically history. I would think our goal is an adjusted time study based on the variables you faced that day.

Can the center management team decide how many and what size and type of vehicles it will be provided with? No.

Theres a yearly process where the center team, maintenance and IE get together to discuss ADA's and future needs. So the answer again is yes.
Rentals have always had to be requested and approved through IE.

Can the center management team decide what the NDA time commitments are for its various delivery areas? No.

Agreed. Center should not have that decision making power.

Can the center management team decide to improve outdated equipment and facilities? No.

I really don't understand why you bring this point up. You want centers teams having the right to buy cadillacs and build Taj Mahals?

 

[soberups]

Can the center management team decide how many routes to dispatch on a daily basis? No.

Yes. they can influence it in a lot of different ways. There is an overall business plan that they are working towards. Within that parameter they can adjust the plan with the help of the IE person. Generally within any operation planning more people requires planning a shorter paid day. The push is there to reduce the overall day and lessen the overtime. There may be variables within your center that keep that from happening.

You say they can "influence" it, but the bottom line is that the final decision is not in the hands of the people who actually have to implement it; it is in the hands of people (IE) who are absent, unaccountable, and not responsible for the outcome of their impossible expectations.

You want to make this company stronger? Remove all decision-making capability from IE and give it back to the people in the real world who are actually managing your operations. IE should act in an advisory capacity only.

 

[soberups]

Can the center management team decide how many and what size and type of vehicles it will be provided with? No.

Theres a yearly process where the center team, maintenance and IE get together to discuss ADA's and future needs. So the answer again is yes.
Rentals have always had to be requested and approved through IE.

And the outcome of this process is always the same; the center will never have an adequate supply of suitable vehicles. The decision of how many and what type of vehicles to supply will always be based upon what IE thinks we can afford, and not what the center managment team who runs the operation knows that we actually need.

 

[soberups]

Can the center management team decide to improve outdated equipment and facilities? No.

I really don't understand why you bring this point up. You want centers teams having the right to buy cadillacs and build Taj Mahals?

You really need to get out from behind that desk and come live in the real world for awhile.

What you perceive to be a "cadillac" or a "Taj Mahal" would probably be described by the person who actually does the work as "barely adequate".

In IE world, if your route can barely contain in a P-1000, they will give you a 25 yr old P-800. In IE world, if you have an overcrowded MDU with only 10 park positions, they will jury-rig the damn thing to load 12 cars out of it.

I.E.-----an Incoherent Explanation for the Impossible Expectations that result when Insufficent Expenditures are allocated for Inadequate Equipment that is Incompetently Engineered.

 

[Catatonic]

Can the center management team decide to improve outdated equipment and facilities? No.

I really don't understand why you bring this point up. You want centers teams having the right to buy cadillacs and build Taj Mahals?

You really need to get out from behind that desk and come live in the real world for awhile.

What you perceive to be a "cadillac" or a "Taj Mahal" would probably be described by the person who actually does the work as "barely adequate".

In IE world, if your route can barely contain in a P-1000, they will give you a 25 yr old P-800. In IE world, if you have an overcrowded MDU with only 10 park positions, they will jury-rig the damn thing to load 12 cars out of it.

I.E.-----an Incoherent Explanation for the Impossible Expectations that result when Insufficent Expenditures are allocated for Inadequate Equipment that is Incompetently Engineered.

Don't forget Imaginary Engineering.

That was what I called myself when in I.E.

 

[tourists24]

Can the center management team decide to improve outdated equipment and facilities? No.

I really don't understand why you bring this point up. You want centers teams having the right to buy cadillacs and build Taj Mahals?

You really need to get out from behind that desk and come live in the real world for awhile.

What you perceive to be a "cadillac" or a "Taj Mahal" would probably be described by the person who actually does the work as "barely adequate".

In IE world, if your route can barely contain in a P-1000, they will give you a 25 yr old P-800. In IE world, if you have an overcrowded MDU with only 10 park positions, they will jury-rig the damn thing to load 12 cars out of it.

I.E.-----an Incoherent Explanation for the Impossible Expectations that result when Insufficent Expenditures are allocated for Inadequate Equipment that is Incompetently Engineered.

Not to mention the huge safety push being implemented now.... It's always the driver's fault when an injury occurs; but I imagine using old trucks w/o power steering doesnt help backs and shoulders. That huge step off of older package cars are over knee high on short drivers. Ive never driven a cadillac like that. If front line input had any real meaning these older trucks would be out of service.

 

[tieguy]

Can the center management team decide how many routes to dispatch on a daily basis? No.

Yes. they can influence it in a lot of different ways. There is an overall business plan that they are working towards. Within that parameter they can adjust the plan with the help of the IE person. Generally within any operation planning more people requires planning a shorter paid day. The push is there to reduce the overall day and lessen the overtime. There may be variables within your center that keep that from happening.

You say they can "influence" it, but the bottom line is that the final decision is not in the hands of the people who actually have to implement it; it is in the hands of people (IE) who are absent, unaccountable, and not responsible for the outcome of their impossible expectations.

You want to make this company stronger? Remove all decision-making capability from IE and give it back to the people in the real world who are actually managing your operations. IE should act in an advisory capacity only.

Sober I don't know why you insist on telling a management person how the management planning process works. its your center teams plan. They can make it and put many variables into the plan. At some point as pretzel said its locked down and they have to live with what they planned.

 

[tieguy]

Can the center management team decide how many and what size and type of vehicles it will be provided with? No.

Theres a yearly process where the center team, maintenance and IE get together to discuss ADA's and future needs. So the answer again is yes.
Rentals have always had to be requested and approved through IE.

And the outcome of this process is always the same; the center will never have an adequate supply of suitable vehicles. The decision of how many and what type of vehicles to supply will always be based upon what IE thinks we can afford, and not what the center managment team who runs the operation knows that we actually need.

Perhaps you should step up since you have so many answers on how screwed up your managment team is.

 

[tieguy]

Can the center management team decide to improve outdated equipment and facilities? No.

I really don't understand why you bring this point up. You want centers teams having the right to buy cadillacs and build Taj Mahals?

You really need to get out from behind that desk and come live in the real world for awhile.

What you perceive to be a "cadillac" or a "Taj Mahal" would probably be described by the person who actually does the work as "barely adequate".

In IE world, if your route can barely contain in a P-1000, they will give you a 25 yr old P-800. In IE world, if you have an overcrowded MDU with only 10 park positions, they will jury-rig the damn thing to load 12 cars out of it.

I.E.-----an Incoherent Explanation for the Impossible Expectations that result when Insufficent Expenditures are allocated for Inadequate Equipment that is Incompetently Engineered.

And perhaps you need to put the bong pipe down if you thing the center team should have the rights to build new facilities. Other then that I can't understand why you still work for us when you obviously have strong feelings on how screwed up the job is. Personally I think we have been too good to you for all the bitching you do.

 

[Catatonic]

Alright tie go for 4 straight posts in a row on this thread.

Oops, I guess I spoiled that opportunity ... sorry.