Telematics and peak

UPSGUY72

Well-Known Member
I just do my job like I did before telematics. I don't know why everyone worries about it so much. Unless your use to driving around with your bulk head door open or seat belt off it is not a big deal. Sure you get hit with backing first exceptions once in a while but sometimes you can't avoid them.

It just gives your SUPs more paper work.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
All that info is stored Sober. Wait until that first week of the year.

It'll start out something like this, "Sober, got a minute? I'd like to review your backing trends and idling trends over the last month."

The backing and idling data were nothing more than "flavor of the week" buzzwords that were in vogue when Telematics was first installed. Company propaganda notwithstanding, Telematics was never about backing or safety in the first place. Once the production phase of the Telematics program was implemented, the so-called "safety" aspects were, for the most part at least, forgotten.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
I haven't looked in quite a while, but I thought the wording was it couldn't be used for a first infraction?

BTW, I also thought it said that it could be used for a first infraction in the case of dishonesty?

I certainly could be wrong...

P-Man
Article 6

Section 4
(8) No employee shall be discharged on a first offense if such discharge is based solely upon
information received from GPS or any successor system unless he/she engages in dishonesty
(defined for the purposes of this paragraph as any act or omission by an employee where he/she
intends to defraud the Company). The degree of discipline dealing with off-area offenses shall not
be changed because of the use of GPS.​

-----------------------------------------------------------------------​

"Intends" is, in my opinion, the key word here.​

Its not enough to use Telematics to show that you took too long at a particular stop, or went off area, or that you made a data-entry error in regards to recording personal time or breaks. The burden of proof is on the company to prove intent in regards to any accusation of dishonesty.​

The average employee who intends to do his job honestly and who accurately records data to the best of his ability doesnt have anything to fear from Telematics... other than the constant, annoying nit-picking and nagging from sups who appear to be justifying their jobs by finding trivia to complain about. While irritating, it is not threatening and after awhile you learn to just ignore it.​
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
Article 6

Section 4
(8) No employee shall be discharged on a first offense if such discharge is based solely upon
information received from GPS or any successor system unless he/she engages in dishonesty
(defined for the purposes of this paragraph as any act or omission by an employee where he/she
intends to defraud the Company). The degree of discipline dealing with off-area offenses shall not
be changed because of the use of GPS.​

-----------------------------------------------------------------------​

"Intends" is, in my opinion, the key word here.​

Its not enough to use Telematics to show that you took too long at a particular stop, or went off area, or that you made a data-entry error in regards to recording personal time or breaks. The burden of proof is on the company to prove intent in regards to any accusation of dishonesty.​


The average employee who intends to do his job honestly and who accurately records data to the best of his ability doesnt have anything to fear from Telematics... other than the constant, annoying nit-picking and nagging from sups who appear to be justifying their jobs by finding trivia to complain about. While irritating, it is not threatening and after awhile you learn to just ignore it.​

Would you agree that the wording leaves open the ability to discipline an employees from Telematics (or DIAD data) if its not a first offence?

I agree that an employee who makes an honest mistake should have nothing to worry about. I also agree that they will likely have to deal with nit-picking.

P-Man
 

brownrod

Well-Known Member
It's peak. How could telematics possibly help us. I don't know any driver who doesn't have his next 10 stops in the cab, bulkhead open all day and truck idling while the helper is running. How else could we deal with the extra workload. Telematics would cripple me and my loopmates!
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
Would you agree that the wording leaves open the ability to discipline an employees from Telematics (or DIAD data) if its not a first offence?
P-Man

In theory yes, but the language itself is vague and not well written in my opinion.

The "first offense" is not defined, nor is the manner in which it was determined that the employee was even guilty of that offense.

An overly aggressive sup could, in theory at least, interpret the language to allow him go out and "observe" a driver taking a 61-minute lunch....and then use that "first offense" to justify any subsequent discipline based upon Telematics data alone.

The extent to which the "first offense" language applies will be resolved through the grievance procedure. To me, the requirement to prove intent is the real safeguard.
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
It's peak. How could telematics possibly help us. I don't know any driver who doesn't have his next 10 stops in the cab, bulkhead open all day and truck idling while the helper is running. How else could we deal with the extra workload. Telematics would cripple me and my loopmates!
I guess you don't know me. I don't do that all year, why would I do it now? If you are out there every day working like that, I think you're crazy. Your choice though.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
I feel pretty good about my methods and my ability to do the job exactly the way the company wants me to do it. Part of me likes the idea of getting feedback on all that stuff.

That "feedback" will get really old really fast...especially when its about stuff that doesnt mean diddly-squat in the first place.

You may also find that it doesnt matter how well you follow those methods...your sups job security depends upon him finding some flaw, however trivial, so that he can then take credit for reporting, documenting and correcting it.

And even if you are able to provide absolutely flawless Telematics data...you will simply be questioned over why you spent 4 minutes and 18 seconds at a stop with an "allowance" of 3 minutes and 6 seconds.

Perfect methods = overallowed.

Underallowed = improper methods.

There is no way around these two equations. Any action you take to get off of one report will simply cause you to appear on a different one. Either way, its job security for your supervisor and an irritating pain in the ass for you.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
It's peak. How could telematics possibly help us. I don't know any driver who doesn't have his next 10 stops in the cab, bulkhead open all day and truck idling while the helper is running. How else could we deal with the extra workload. Telematics would cripple me and my loopmates!

I would also like to introduce myself.

Peak or not, I do the job the same way. The bulkhead is closed while the vehicle is in motion. The pkg car is shut off while we are delivering. The helper does not run but does have a sense of urgency (and drinks Red Bulls). You deal with the extra workload by working smarter, not harder. Use both DIADs and make sure you download EDD in to both boards before leaving the bldg. Try to deliver as many stops as possible without moving the pkg car.

210 stops, 450+ pkgs, used helper for 4.99 hours, punched out by 1830.
 

OVERBOARD

Don't believe everything you think
It's peak. How could telematics possibly help us. I don't know any driver who doesn't have his next 10 stops in the cab, bulkhead open all day and truck idling while the helper is running. How else could we deal with the extra workload. Telematics would cripple me and my loopmates!

I do everything by the book, even during peak, why would you risk your job with the bulkhead open all day, Pkgs in cab and if something was to happen you would be the first one on here wondering why they fired you.
Btw in my center the sups are still doing ORO and we've lost 3 drivers this peak for different reason, you may think your helping them but it will not mean anything to your Sups if you screw-up, do the job as your told.
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
That "feedback" will get really old really fast...especially when its about stuff that doesnt mean diddly-squat in the first place.

You may also find that it doesnt matter how well you follow those methods...your sups job security depends upon him finding some flaw, however trivial, so that he can then take credit for reporting, documenting and correcting it.

And even if you are able to provide absolutely flawless Telematics data...you will simply be questioned over why you spent 4 minutes and 18 seconds at a stop with an "allowance" of 3 minutes and 6 seconds.

Perfect methods = overallowed.

Underallowed = improper methods.

There is no way around these two equations. Any action you take to get off of one report will simply cause you to appear on a different one. Either way, its job security for your supervisor and an irritating pain in the ass for you.
You're probably right, but it's coming whether I like it or not according to the P-Man. Just trying to take that lemon and make lemonade :wink2:

I would also like to introduce myself.

Peak or not, I do the job the same way. The bulkhead is closed while the vehicle is in motion. The pkg car is shut off while we are delivering. The helper does not run but does have a sense of urgency (and drinks Red Bulls). You deal with the extra workload by working smarter, not harder. Use both DIADs and make sure you download EDD in to both boards before leaving the bldg. Try to deliver as many stops as possible without moving the pkg car.

210 stops, 450+ pkgs, used helper for 4.99 hours, punched out by 1830.
I pick my helper up at 10AM and keep him til I'm done. The first stop he ran back and forth to the truck, when he got back I told him that he didn't have to run, I don't run and I certainly don't expect him to. Just walk at a brisk pace and we'll be fine. We're getting about 30% to 40% more work done than I would by myself and making cutoff more often than not.
 

upsgrunt

Well-Known Member
I would also like to introduce myself.

Peak or not, I do the job the same way. The bulkhead is closed while the vehicle is in motion. The pkg car is shut off while we are delivering. The helper does not run but does have a sense of urgency (and drinks Red Bulls). You deal with the extra workload by working smarter, not harder. Use both DIADs and make sure you download EDD in to both boards before leaving the bldg. Try to deliver as many stops as possible without moving the pkg car.

210 stops, 450+ pkgs, used helper for 4.99 hours, punched out by 1830.


Upstate is right about the helper time. Always use your helper 1 minute less than the next hour- It certainly helps your time.
 

babboo25

Banned
Someone gave you bad information....

Telematics has been approved for continued deployment next year.

Telematics sites have significantly better performance improvements compared to non-telematics sites.

P-Man

Were you ever a driver??? Better performance?? Not a chance, less backing means more walking off stops. Closing bulkhead every stop in a residential neighborhood=more time. Get a clue, someone gave you bad information. You probably think you can get the same performance driving a rental truck vs a pkg car.
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
Were you ever a driver??? Better performance?? Not a chance, less backing means more walking off stops. Closing bulkhead every stop in a residential neighborhood=more time. Get a clue, someone gave you bad information. You probably think you can get the same performance driving a rental truck vs a pkg car.

Yes, I've been a driver. Not long, but I was a driver.

I've been in many, many Telematics sites. How many have you seen? Have you looked at the statistics? I have.

I gave honest and accurate information. You can choose to not believe it. That's your choice.

P-Man
 

grgrcr88

No It's not green grocer!
I haven't looked in quite a while, but I thought the wording was it couldn't be used for a first infraction?

BTW, I also thought it said that it could be used for a first infraction in the case of dishonesty?

I certainly could be wrong...

P-Man


It does say the first infraction, but telematics alone is not good enough for discipline. Too many proven cases of unreliability with the information, as well as the interpretation is always different depending on yhe person.

The Union does not recognize it, same as over allowed or time allowances!!
 

grgrcr88

No It's not green grocer!
Yes, I've been a driver. Not long, but I was a driver.

I've been in many, many Telematics sites. How many have you seen? Have you looked at the statistics? I have.

I gave honest and accurate information. You can choose to not believe it. That's your choice.

P-Man


As I stated earlier(sort of), we measure things in the real world P Man, not a computer screen and a pile of paper work. Your numbers cannot tell the whole story. No matter how many times you watch the TV show NUMB3RS!!
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
As I stated earlier(sort of), we measure things in the real world P Man, not a computer screen and a pile of paper work. Your numbers cannot tell the whole story. No matter how many times you watch the TV show NUMB3RS!!

Okay... I guess Cost per piece, NDPPH, SPOHR, Ov/Un, don't count. Individually, I agree each has a problem. In this case, they say the same thing in Telematics sites.

By the way, I do talk with customers also..... Lots of customers....

Again, I posted the true facts. You can choose to believe them or not. Your call.

P-Man
 
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