UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
While it may not be against the contract it should be against everything we all stand for.
Your answer surprises me.
Telematics
- Thread starter Over12upsblows
- Start date
While it may not be against the contract it should be against everything we all stand for.
Your answer surprises me.
dilligaf
IN VINO VERITAS
If one is instructed to do something, then it should get done. Work first, grieve later.
guinness413
Well-Known Member
the geniuses are 'salting" loads with misroutes now..i was told by a PT prelaod sup(who isnt full blown dark side) to watch out and pass the word along...now tell me how they can justify deliberately causing service failures?....everyone gets messaged in as always,but im sure some runners just mix them in with pick ups...
brownedout
Well-Known Member
These SALT packages are usually "dummy" boxes with a made up address, usually not even a good add. They are not merchandise a consignee has ordered, and is expecting. Thus no service failure per say, except for the fact that one of our fellow drivers is not doing his/her job properly.
THIS is not true. The company is using "live" packages as salts in all cars. These are legitimate pkgs with legitimate destinations. The key is the "concept" that the drivers will find them, scan them as misloads, and they have the pkgs picked up by the destination driver later in the day.
The goal??
Simple. Catch drivers who will simply smoke them because they dont belong to them. Its like bringing the pigeons to the cat.
Peace
TOS
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
The company was paying him to work as directed and accurately scan and deliver the packages in his truck. He defrauded the company by intentionally falsifying delivery records and missing service on the packages that the company was paying him to provide. Any opportunity that the company might have had to make service on the misloads was taken away when the driver deliberately and knowingly sheeted them as no such number and brought them back in without calling or making a delivery attempt on them. That is fraud, plain and simple.
brownedout
Well-Known Member
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
The "SALT" charade can be a very effective tool to catch those drivers taking shortcuts.
One of the biggest problems with drivers and their understanding of telematics and related technologies, is the lack of understanding how the current language applies. I agree with BROWN804 that the word DEFRAUD was probably the biggest mistake to have been agreed upon because its too general of a word.
When I originally wrote on this subject back when the contract was up for ratification, I also condemned the use of the word and said that it would be like opening a barndoor and letting the animals out.
The word "defraud" is too general and can be applied in many aspects. With respect to improperly sheeting packages, its an easy association to include the word "DEFRAUD" when a driver knowingly sheets a package with a code he/she knows is wrong in an attempt to either conceal, hide or service fail the package.
All drivers should learn from the mistakes of others and not duplicate their actions. You may think you got away with something like this even if a few days has passed, however, if the company reviews your telematics and they see B.A.'s sheeted on a street that is NO PLACE near the intended address, then you have opened a can of worms that will be hard to close.
All packages should be recorded properly at all times. If it doesnt belong to you, then you have an opportunity to sheet it as a misload and clear yourself of liability. You should recieve instructions on how to record the pkg from your center, and if you dont by 7PM, then record the package as missed.
NEVER make a decision to assign a B.A. code to an off area.
With respect to salts, notify the center on each and every pkg in your car that does not belong there. Even if it doesnt belong to you, if you smoke it and bring it back unsheeted and toss it on a belt or slide, you will be discharged.
Salts are there for a reason, and that reason is to change the mindsets of drivers who for years, have simply returned to the building with unserviced packages. Those days are over.
If you roll the dice on a salt or any pkg, then you will pay the price for that action.
peace
TOS
When I originally wrote on this subject back when the contract was up for ratification, I also condemned the use of the word and said that it would be like opening a barndoor and letting the animals out.
The word "defraud" is too general and can be applied in many aspects. With respect to improperly sheeting packages, its an easy association to include the word "DEFRAUD" when a driver knowingly sheets a package with a code he/she knows is wrong in an attempt to either conceal, hide or service fail the package.
All drivers should learn from the mistakes of others and not duplicate their actions. You may think you got away with something like this even if a few days has passed, however, if the company reviews your telematics and they see B.A.'s sheeted on a street that is NO PLACE near the intended address, then you have opened a can of worms that will be hard to close.
All packages should be recorded properly at all times. If it doesnt belong to you, then you have an opportunity to sheet it as a misload and clear yourself of liability. You should recieve instructions on how to record the pkg from your center, and if you dont by 7PM, then record the package as missed.
NEVER make a decision to assign a B.A. code to an off area.
With respect to salts, notify the center on each and every pkg in your car that does not belong there. Even if it doesnt belong to you, if you smoke it and bring it back unsheeted and toss it on a belt or slide, you will be discharged.
Salts are there for a reason, and that reason is to change the mindsets of drivers who for years, have simply returned to the building with unserviced packages. Those days are over.
If you roll the dice on a salt or any pkg, then you will pay the price for that action.
peace
TOS
double yawn
I agree with what you wrote but if this is a first offense should this be dischargable?? Where is the progressive discipline??
dilligaf
IN VINO VERITAS
Has anyone considered this................................... Methods tells us that we are not supposed to use driveways or back any more than absolutely necessary. Telematics tells them everytime we go out of our way from one stop to the next. Mgt calls us in (it has happened here already) and they want to know why we went the extra mile (or what ever distance). They don't want us wasting miles, so in essence they are encouraging us to back and use driveways. We are damned if we do and damned if we don't. 
Well, that is the true problem with the creation of article 6 of the national master agreement. It gave the company a BYPASS to skip the typical progressive discipline and go straight to a discharge without the need for warning letters and suspensions.
The Article has a CAVEAT in it that opened a door SO WIDE, they could drive a package car through it.
I hope that this year, the committee on that article can be smart enough to address the language in it, but from what Ive been told, so far nothing has been suggested. I will be sitting on the committee for our package rider in my local and hope to meet with the national committees once we are assembled.
The article says "8. No employee shall be discharged on a first offense if such dis-charge is based solely upon information received from GPS or any successor system unless he/she engages in dishonesty (defined for the purposes of this paragraph as any act or omission by an employee where he/she intends to defraud the Company). The degree of discipline dealing with off-area offenses shall not be changed because of the use of GPS.""
Now, this is dangerous language. Yes, it does say for a first offense, but what about the second offense?? Further, it spells out dishonesty clearly and puts the word DEFRAUD into the mix.
The word is too vague for application because sometimes a "mistake" could be construed as defrauding. The third element is for OFF AREA offenses, like driving 15 miles off route and that is still subject to the local package riders for discipline.
The langauge should have included a discipline scale ( verbal, written, suspension, discharge) but that was NOT considered when it was agreed to and the company took the upper hand on this article.
This should scared the crap out of everyone on the road. DO IT RIGHT, dont cheat and forget about old habits! Those days are over if you are on telematics.
Peace
TOS
BMWMC
B.C. boohoo buster.
Everything a worker does a manager can Monday morning quarterback and second guess every decision you made. What frightening is that everything can be describe as fraud or theft. Its really nothing more than point and accuse. Coulda-woulda-shoulda----Guilty until proven innocent. Don't believe me then read up on the Salem witch trials.
Innocent mistakes, key punch error, bad choices, or verbal traps setup by out-to-getcha managers can all be maligned and distorted to abuse the dishonesty defraud language. Your not making your numbers then management manufacture a dishonesty charge out of an innocent mistake or misjudgment. Seems a class action suit is inevitable given the propensity of this management to abuse its workers. At UPS its always been profits over people and Telemetrics puts that philosophy on turbo drive,
Innocent mistakes, key punch error, bad choices, or verbal traps setup by out-to-getcha managers can all be maligned and distorted to abuse the dishonesty defraud language. Your not making your numbers then management manufacture a dishonesty charge out of an innocent mistake or misjudgment. Seems a class action suit is inevitable given the propensity of this management to abuse its workers. At UPS its always been profits over people and Telemetrics puts that philosophy on turbo drive,
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UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Oh, no, the sky is falling.....the sky is falling.....give me a break...just do the job the way that you are supposed to and you will be OK.
Im happy that it goes that way at your center, but it doesnt everywhere, be thankful.
Someplaces they are just out to get us.
I was questioned why I took 17 minutes for 2 stops with 17 total pkgs. It is hard to remember day to day. They never look to see if there was break time involved, which there was. Its called attack and conquer.
I was questioned why it took me x amounts of min to deliver x amount of pakgs all the time. Let me look at the paper that they are drilling off, and I can tell them. Wave it in my face and expect me to read it upside down or just draw from memory is childish.
I know they have to eliminate dead beat people, but lets play fair, and they dont. If they are really concerned about what takes so long, lets have an adult conversation. If then they have a problem we can deal with it, tired of the gotcha moments.
BMWMC
B.C. boohoo buster.
I repeat....
Everything a worker does a manager can Monday morning quarterback and second guess every decision you made. What frightening is that everything can be describe as fraud or theft. Its really nothing more than point and accuse. Coulda-woulda-shoulda----Guilty until proven innocent. Don't believe me then read up on the Salem witch trials.
Innocent mistakes, key punch error, bad choices, or verbal traps setup by out-to-getcha managers can all be maligned and distorted to abuse the dishonesty defraud language. Your not making your numbers then management manufacture a dishonesty charge out of an innocent mistake or misjudgment. Seems a class action suit is inevitable given the propensity of this management to abuse its workers. At UPS its always been profits over people and Telemetrics puts that philosophy on turbo drive,
Everything a worker does a manager can Monday morning quarterback and second guess every decision you made. What frightening is that everything can be describe as fraud or theft. Its really nothing more than point and accuse. Coulda-woulda-shoulda----Guilty until proven innocent. Don't believe me then read up on the Salem witch trials.
Innocent mistakes, key punch error, bad choices, or verbal traps setup by out-to-getcha managers can all be maligned and distorted to abuse the dishonesty defraud language. Your not making your numbers then management manufacture a dishonesty charge out of an innocent mistake or misjudgment. Seems a class action suit is inevitable given the propensity of this management to abuse its workers. At UPS its always been profits over people and Telemetrics puts that philosophy on turbo drive,
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Tooner, we have been live for about two months now. I have had two recordings in travel and one recording while idling. When I questioned one of the RIT my center manager printed out my personal Telematics report for that day and we discussed it together. The data was right.
Our center as a whole has done very well since going live. We have had a couple of "what they hell were you thinking" moments, such as a driver closing out a pickup stop 7 miles away from the pickup while driving 56.9 mph. The only reason this became an issue is a customer called in a concern that the driver was speeding (he was---speed limit was 35).
Our center manager, on-car and PDS will review Telematics findings with those who make the report but these are informational reviews only--there has been no discipline (other than for the example I gave above) related to Telematics data.
There was one driver who was questioned about the "gap times" between deliveries.
Our center as a whole has done very well since going live. We have had a couple of "what they hell were you thinking" moments, such as a driver closing out a pickup stop 7 miles away from the pickup while driving 56.9 mph. The only reason this became an issue is a customer called in a concern that the driver was speeding (he was---speed limit was 35).
Our center manager, on-car and PDS will review Telematics findings with those who make the report but these are informational reviews only--there has been no discipline (other than for the example I gave above) related to Telematics data.
There was one driver who was questioned about the "gap times" between deliveries.
Big Babooba
Well-Known Member
In theory, yes. I used to believe that until the day they showed me that I had 48 recording while idling events - that's 3 1/2 hours of work that I supposedly kept the truck running while I was delivering which never happened. I also show up as having nearly an hour of idle time every day. My boss and I are scratching our heads on this one because I run a rural route and only have one traffic light to deal with and the truck never idles when I'm on lunch. The best one was when I had my bulkhead door open for 126 miles when I only ran 124 miles that day! Figure that one out!
