Temporary Cover Driver??

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by Mrs. UPS, Apr 25, 2008.

  1. Mrs. UPS

    Mrs. UPS New Member

    Hi everyone, I need some UPS advice. My husband was hired off the street almost 2 years ago as a TCD. It was NOT during peak season. Infact June will be 2 years. Anyway, things have been great up until recently. He's been sent home a lot be/c of volume. But we figured that was just something we'd have to live with until he became full time. We knew how lucky he was that he was hired straight on and never had to work preload.

    Well this morning his dispatch sup called him and the 2 other guys who were hired off the street into her office and told them that they were sending 8 TCD drivers back to preload be/c volume is so low. BUT she tells them that they won't be going back to preload. She said they just "found out" that TCD's hired from the street couldn't go to preload. They were considered full time now. Is that true? I have searched online all day. I even read through his entire handbook and I can't find anything solid that talks about it. The crazy thing is she sent him home today too. No work. But said to come early on Monday and talk to a Union Steward and they'd get it all straightened out.

    Now all of the other drivers are telling my husband that his seniority will jump way up and he'll be over all the TCD drivers and he won't be sent home at all. I just don't see how they could just now "notice". We don't want to get our hopes up, but this could be a big deal!

    Does anyone have info? Sorry I went on so long here, but I'm desperate! :anxious:
  2. brownrodster

    brownrodster New Member

    I would just say good luck and wait patiently until monday. I hope everything works out in your favor. I would add that this is probably not outside the realm of possibility. Management does all sorts of things wrong. You are lucky they are willing to fix their mistake without a battle!
  3. pkg-king

    pkg-king New Member

    They probably realized that off the street hires go straight to fulltime, they don't get hired as TCD. The 6 to 1 inside/outside hire ratio is for fulltime jobs, TCD is considered partime. When he was hired off the street it should have been for a FT driving job not partime TCD work. This happened in our center for a period of time. Back when he was hired volume was heavier so there was no layoff issues, now that they're looking to layoff, they probably realized the mistake that was made. If this is the case, and they are going to correct it, consider yourself VERY fortunate. Keep us posted.
  4. Service Failure

    Service Failure New Member

    Don't know if this will help but today at our center they put up a driver's lay-off sheet and they told us that the drivers weren't going to get any work for 5 days before they can start bumping off the lowest seniority part-timers for work. I don't know if this is how it works with all centers/hubs but that was the information that was given to us.
  5. Forty6and2

    Forty6and2 I'm Broken

    this is typical ups behavior. they don't tend to give a lot of "notice" until the last minute when they do anything.
  6. Hedley_Lamarr

    Hedley_Lamarr New Member

    I got hired on after Christmas, I started as a casual and just made book in February. I'm getting sent home at least once a week. I worked 36 hours last week, and about the same this week. The shop steward tells me on Thursday to demand your eight hours, then he tells me that they will most likely tell you after you do that that you will most likely be told to stay home the next day. :angry:
  7. Overpaid Union Thug

    Overpaid Union Thug Eva Mendez Has A Nice (_!_)

    Work inside to get your 8 hours if you have to. Full-time is full-time.
  8. BrownShark

    BrownShark Banned

    Mrs UPS,

    This situation is a current "backdoor" issue with UPS. Depending on your locals "package rider", the issue of cover drivers are addressed. There is NO national language that superceeds "package Rider" language.

    The first thing you need to understand is that the hiring of Temp cover drivers is OUTSIDE the contract and a grievable act against the company by those part time employees designated as cover drivers.

    Unless a specific section in the package rider allows this practice, you should be lucky if he keeps his position.

    One poster mentioned a 1 in 6 ratio but that ratio varies local to local and has NO part in this scenario. The mentioned ratio only applies to those hired off the street as FULL TIME DRIVERS, an accepted policy between the local and company.

    Example, UPS tried that here in so cal. A grievance was filed, those off the street were either termed or moved into preload and had to get on the cover driving list before they could be used again as cover drivers.

    This is a matter of seniority.

    You cant come off the street and be hired as a temp cover driver and "hidden" on the preload books. This practice is called "ghosting".

    Ghosting is where a center operator uses a driver onroad who never appears on the books for the center and the time hidden on preload.

    This helps the numbers, gets up sporh but is a deceptive practice. Since nobody in the ivory tower is smart enough to catch this practice it goes unnoticed until the UNION catches it.

    The practice of off the street hires vary local to local, however there is no practice of temp cover drivers.

    Cover drivers can only be used for vacation, jury duty or funeral leave coverage and there is specific language that prohibits the use of cover drivers for supplemental coverage.

    There must be a new full time driver hired each time a cover driver is used any 30 days in a 90 day period and that driver comes off the full time list, not the cover drivers themselves.

    If he was hired as a temp cover driver, "I" personally would seek to have him either removed from payroll or sent to preload at the bottom of the seniority list. Thats the RIGHT thing to do.

    However, if your in a small town and there are not enough qualified people to drive, then I would see no reason the union and the company couldnt come up with an agreement that does not violate seniority.

    The practice of hiring temp drivers is an ongoing problem at UPS and its only begining to reach the surface.

    Once the company completes paying the back pay to those affected cover drivers who did not get to drive because the company hired an illegal driver off the street will the problem cease.

    Hope you dont mind the honest truth, but this is a union job with union rules. Being a nice guy has no part in the matter.

    Something to remember, seniority, seniority seniority.

  9. RockyRogue

    RockyRogue Agent of Change

    Its sad that seniority would prompt you to drive a hardworking person out of a job. The seniority clause--while nice for vacations, etc--should be applied a little more carefully in these matters. I saw an article somewhere several years ago--sorry, don't remember where--about the airline downsizing earlier this decade. The author made a very valid point: when you lay off the YOUNG guys, you're going to run into trouble when your workforce is old, sick and/or retiring. Lo and behold....look at what happened at Delta Airlines, based like UPS at Atlanta? THEY HAD TO RECALL RETIRED PILOTS! I really suggest you be a little more careful with your seniority clause. -Rocky
  10. BrownShark

    BrownShark Banned


    if this were GM, id agree with you, but otherwise seniority rules no matter whos feelings get hurt, thats why we have young part timers in the hub EARNING those positions before off the street hires..

    Nice try though.

  11. Mrs. UPS

    Mrs. UPS New Member

    Thank you all for your replies. This has been a rollercoaster ordeal to say the least.....

    On Monday when he went in they had his name moved up above the other tcd's to the bottom of full time. But they had him scheduled off to talk to the union steward. The steward told him that yes he was classified wrong be/c temp cover drivers aren't hired off the street so he should have been full time from the start. He said they were still working through the kinks but to be in Tuesday morning to work be/c his position wouldn't change. Well yesterday morning his name was still on fulltime and he had a route to do, but some of the other tcd's were off be/c they were going to the union about it. They were :censored2:. Well this morning they tell him that they're going over all of it again and they'd let him know. So while he's out on his route today his sup calls and tells him that it was all a mistake and he needs to report to preload in the morning, and now he's NOT full time.

    I just don't understand how they can do this. He hired on from the street 2 years ago and went straight to driving. I don't see how it can be fair that they do this to him. Because now we're going to lose a lot. Probably our house. And no one can even give us a reason why. His sup couldn't tell him what his classification was, what his position was or anything. She said she was just the messenger. I understand where the other driver's were coming from. I completely understand why they would have been mad. But does that make it okay to put my husband through all of this? Yes you're full time, no you're not. It's cruel! Is there anything at all we can do? I feel that this was a case of who threw the biggest fit.
  12. feeder53

    feeder53 ADKtrails

    MRSUPS, I have been around for a number of years and passed through three companies because of the same issues. I came to just except the facts and move UP. I found P/T jobs and went down to the union hall and signed up as an extra driver and I always made it somehow. Keep your chin up and stick it out. I know it will be hard, but it builds character. Good Luck.
  13. BrownShark

    BrownShark Banned

    MRS UPS,

    Please forgive me for having to be the bearer of bad news. Its not my intention to cause you bigger harm in your lives. Please note that I am a former Executive Officer of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters and I can only offer you the contractual explanations.

    While your husband is probably a very honest and efficient driver, this situation is a difficult one.

    I can only imagine how this affects you both at home and emotionally.

    Lets start here:

    First, in the national agreement, there is article 6. In article 6 its states that the Operators/managers/supervisors cannot go outside the contract and make a separate agreement. They cannot have an employee sign, or agree to, in part or collectively (ie: 5 temp cover drivers) sign any document that establishes an outside arrangement that bypasses AGREED contract language.

    In this case, just because a manager/operator promised your husband a full time position after he worked as a temp cover driver, you must acknowledge that the manager had NO AUTHORITY to make such a promise.

    No operator/manager can offer anything to any employee that by-passes contractual limitations and violates seniority.

    It is a complicated situation with many liabilities to the company. When the company finds out that the liabilities can range in the thousands of dollars, the company is quick to either terminate the illegal hire or send to preload at the bottom of the seniority list.

    I realize that this may cause you hardships at home, it doesnt factor into the decision between the Union and the Company.

    The contract is very clear about one premise:

    "The Employer recognizes that the principle of seniority shall be given prime consideration in the everyday operation of the business."

    This agreement superceeds everything at UPS.

    The reality of the situation should be a discussion between UPS and the Union to see whether or not your husband should have been hired as a permanent driver off the street if the company promoted the proper ratio of "inside" promotions from part time to full time during that time period.

    There are many complications to this issue, and its not one that can be talked out without a deep investigation.

    If the company did not hire the proper ratio during the time he was hired, then they CANNOT hire him permanently.

    If they didnt and they hired him anyways, the most senior person on the full time list can grieve the company for every dime it payed your husband.

    This is where the company would rather terminate him alltogether.

    Unfortunately, and I know you dont want to hear this, the right thing to do is to put your husband in preload, have him pass his probationary period, then re-sign up for cover driving.

    He will have to wait it out until he qualifies to drive. This is not a good time for this as volume is dropping quickly around the nation and cutbacks are coming.

    To your question as to what you can do, well, there is no official recourse. The union is bound to enforce the contract and protect those seniority employees who were hired before your husband.

    As for the company, the manager/operator who hired him improperly should be reprimanded for this and a demand for his term should be requested by the Union.

    As I mentioned in my other post, you are not alone, this has occured in many hubs. Its a deceptive practice that UPS managers are using to conceal "Ghost" drivers and benefit from deliveries that dont count on the books as a full time driver.

    They are only begining to get caught.

    Once UPS realizes the totallity of backpay paidout, will the problem stop.

    One thing you should consider asking your business agent.

    "if my husband was working as a cover driver, was he paid correctly for the days he worked."

    "my husband was entitled to TOP DRIVERS RATE of pay for any partial weeks worked"

    "my husband was guaranteed a 40 hour week at cover driver pay when he reported on a monday and worked thru friday"

    You see, if he was told on a friday to report on monday and he worked only three days, he was entitled to be paid at the top rate of pay for all hours worked on those three days. This is a considerable amount of money. ($28.81hr in so. california)

    If they used him for 3 days and did not pay him properly, he is entitled to penalty pay for the infractions. This you have to discuss with your agent.

    Its a shame things like this happen, but they do, and someone always gets burned.

    I hope you can understand whats happening. Its not your husbands fault.

    You may want to contact the Dept of labor in your area and ask if they would consider an UNFAIR labor practice against UPS for hiring him improperly and denying him a position promised.

    Also, contact your local NLRB- National Labor Relations Board and ask to speak to an agent about your case. They may intervene with UPS and make something happen, or at the least, force UPS to pay up what is owed.

    best of luck,

  14. brownrodster

    brownrodster New Member

    It sounds to me like they hired him full time off the street via the 6 inside to 1 outside ratio. But they put him on the TCD list instead of FT driver list.

    So maybe he really should be a full time driver and be bumped up in seniority?

    We really haven't been given enough info to figure this one out!
  15. Mrs. UPS

    Mrs. UPS New Member

    Thanks for your reply BrownShark. This is exactly what I need...some inside insight. There was never any kind of agreement between my husband and a manager. He was hired on and told he was a tcd driver and would one day become fulltime, completely depending on seniority. We've known this all along. It wasn't promised to him, just explained as the way things were.
    Here's our timeline: He hired on, went straight to driving school, came back and worked in the warehouse for 3 weeks while they found a route to train him on, drove with a sup for a certain amount of time, then did that same route the entire time he was in his packet, then after that he would just do whatever route was open that day.
    He goes into work every morning and if his name is on dispatch he works, if it's not he asks around and sometimes guys will take an option day and he'll do his route. And then sometimes he'll run split cars or other things. If he can't find any routes to do then they send him home. It's been this way for 2 years.

    What we want to know is what they just saw this week that made them say 1. that he was full time and then 2. that he wasn't full time. What section in the agreement were they looking at? We just don't understand.

    I do understand what you're saying about if he's illegal they would terminate him to cover their butts. But how do we know if he was hired illegally?

    Also about the pay..he has been paid top driver pay the whole time. Or at least I assume he has. He started at around $22/hr and after the regular raises he's up to around $23/hr now. So I don't think he was ever cheated out of money.

    He just called the HR department to see what exactly he was classified as. The guy told him that he was hired off the street as a tcd. Which is a part time position. BUT he was going to have his boss call my husband back with more details. See, it's like we're just getting the runaround. We just need some answers. If he has to go back and work in preload indefinitely that's fine. It's going to suck financially, but he'll stay with it be/c he loves his job. We just want to know why. Why is all this happening now and what caused the changes?
  16. Mrs. UPS

    Mrs. UPS New Member

    Thanks for your reply too Roadster. I'll tell you whatever else you need to know. Just tell me! :happy2:
  17. BrownShark

    BrownShark Banned

    Mrs UPS,

    In this case, based upon the description you provided, the argument should be this:

    UPS hired him illegally and outside the parameters of the contract. They "used" him improperly, as cover drivers DO NOT and ARE NOT suppose to cover for option days or R-days or days off on a day where management sends a full time driver home.

    The reason is the full time driver makes top rate of pay, and to send him home and pay your husband 22 bucks an hour saves them money. But this practice is improper.

    Your husband, should he work a route where the regular driver took an R-day, should be paid TOP DRIVER rate of pay for the day.

    The fact that the "established" practice was to use your husband as a "casual" driver (a practice eliminated in 1997 negotiations) , your case should center around the company having to promote him to full time driving mainly because the implied premise was that he was working as an "assigned" driver to the center. I would ask them to provide a copy of the article, section or addendum that establishes the practice of part time off the street cover drivers. This they cannot do and would demonstrate how wrong it was in the first place.

    Since the company never had him report to preload during that time where he drove, it could be argued that they hired him as a full time driver , then if that is successful, it could be argued that the company owes him backpay for all the days he was shorted his 40 hour guarantee.

    This is the case I would make in arbitration.

    They kept him in the center, using him primarily as a package driver, and having never set foot in preload, and part time positions are always inside and not outside, I would argue that he should be "transitioned" into full time status with backdated seniority upon his 30 days probation.

    Two years of this practive makes for good leverage.

    Also, the agent should be argueing for this.

    I would attempt to contact your local District manager along with your husband and write a strong letter outlining what happened and ask him why he authorizes such a practice then advise him you will contact corporate and file a complaint with them unless he intervenes and remedies the situation.

    Remember, this is only an argument that I would make given the circumstances. The company and the union will try to take the easy road out of the situation.

    Best wishes,

  18. RockyRogue

    RockyRogue Agent of Change

    If things keep up like they are, your company is going to be in as much (or more) trouble as GM. I take your 'nice try' comment as a compliment, by the way. I wonder if I should try another route? :happy2: -Rocky
  19. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

  20. BrownShark

    BrownShark Banned


    you said:

    Interesting piece of
    disinformation. What I have provided are the contractual interpretations and applications of our contract.

    In addition, I provided a hypothetical argument that i would make if I was to handle the case in my district.

    If you actually read and comprehended what I was talking about, you would understand the many complexities of this case.

    Since you brought it up, Seniority is just one of the many complexities. When her husband was hired inproperly, he was assigned to "preload" but never spent one day in preload. He either worked a day in the center or went home.

    It wasnt until the moment he was told to report to preload that the actually spent anytime in that operation. Here is the problem.

    He spent almost 2 yrs in package, now he reports to preload and is classified in his true classification as a preloader. In January, where does he select vacation? If he was a true cover driver, he would select in package at the bottom of the seniority list. However, he is NOT a cover driver/preloader, he instead was hired for a position that did not or does not exist.

    Therefore, he would have to select in preload, but wait, he worked 2yrs, how could he be at the bottom of the seniority pole in preload if he worked for 2 yrs? But then again, how could he be higher than preloaders who worked preload for those same 2 yrs??

    This is the problem. Where do you place him in seniority? If he was assigned to preload and never spent a day in preload, what is his seniority date, and further, what is his rate of pay and where is he in progression? Another complexity.

    The next issue is this, when he was hired, he was assigned to preload, he worked in package and NEVER went back to preload to complete days he would have otherwise been entitled to. The contract addresses this issue.

    When he reported on Monday, he was guaranteed 40 hours or TOP DRIVERS RATE OF PAY for any days worked in the week, then returned to preload to work his guaranteed 3.5 hours at inside rate. Since the company never sent him back and sent him home, he is due back pay on several issues.

    First, they must go back and calculate how many days he missed in preload where they sent him home without pay.

    Second, they must calculate how many 40 hour weeks he was cheated out of when he reported on a monday.

    Third, they must calculate how many days he was NOT paid TOP DRIVERS RATE OF PAY on the days where he worked singular or partial weeks.

    You can imagine that this could be in the thousands of dollars.

    The next issue becomes one of seniority violations..If there were regular seniority cover drivers in his hub that DID NOT get to drive because the company chose to work her husband, the top seniority cover driver would be entitled to every dime that her husband gets paid for the two years or the total of time they were denied the work.

    This too is in the Thousands of dollars.

    The next issue is the 30 in 90 rule.

    Hypothetically, I will take her word that he worked for 2 yrs as a "temp cover driver" and stayed in the center the whole time.

    The contract addresses this issue. Any cover driver who works ANY 30 days in a 90 day period will result in the company hiring one (1) full time driver from the seniority driving list.

    90 days is a quarter, there are 4 quarters in a year, excluding november and december (4th quarter) that makes for 3 new full time drivers that have to be hired by the company in each year her husband worked.

    This is why we have contracts, to avoid these types of confusions. Unfortunately, there are those operators who believe they can outsmart the contract only to find out they screwed the company out of thousands of dollars.

    Do the math, this plus this plus this plus this still equals an operator who should no longer work for UPS. This is stealing time and money from employees.

    This would be my leverage to settle this case.

    If you recall, I began my response to this thread with a caviat that stated that each local has slightly different rules and without knowing what local her husband is in, I can only use a general response using the langauage available.

    This issue is not a new one. Prior to 1997, a practice called "casual drivers" was a legitimate practice. These drivers were hired off the street to cover vacations and the like during the summer months and peak.

    The practice ended when "we" negotiated the cover driver language in 1997. This work was no longer to be done by "off the street" hires and helped to create more full time positions for our part timers.

    The original cover driver language evolved out of language the locals created in New Mexico.

    Tie, I never said this was easy. There are two rules of thought here, one, terminate her husband, make a seniority driver "whole" for lost wages, or

    Follow the contract word for word, dollar by dollar and promote the proper number of full timers to drivers in lieu of 30 in 90, make any affected cover driver (denied the opportunity to work) whole for lost wages, make her husband file a grievance and take the matter to arbitration (locally if applicable) and ask that the company make him full time with backpay and backdated seniority.

    Then I would seek to have the operator responsible for this action terminated. Thats the easy part.

    The company has acted irresponsibly in this case based upon the limited facts known so far. This cannot be disputed.

    Its time for the company to get the big picture and see how many managers are cheating "to make the numbers"