Temporary Cover Driver??

RockyRogue

Agent of Change
Then I would seek to have the operator responsible for this action terminated. Thats the easy part.

The company has acted irresponsibly in this case based upon the limited facts known so far. This cannot be disputed.

Wouldn't having the operator terminated be a little difficult? I know that in my work for previous union employers, the Company strongly resisted termination or disciplinary action for manager misconduct. In the one instance I was personally involved in, I think the manager was given a verbal reprimand and went about his duties. I had a target on my back after that one. My employment experience went downhill from there, ending 8 months later when I quit.

The Company has acted in its best interest. That's not YOUR best interest OR the employee's best interest but the Company doesn't care about your best interest. It cares about making a return to stockholders. If it has to walk a thin grey line, it will. And if it gets caught, it reacts appropriately. A number of years ago, I spoke to a businessman about unions, union grievances and management. He told me that a lot of times a Company will push the envelop to see if the union is paying attention. Sometimes the Company gets away with its behavior, sometimes not. I have no idea what percentage of the time it gets caught. For most managers, catching the union snoozing is good for a laugh. -Rocky
 

BrownShark

Banned
Rocky,

you said:
The Company has acted in its best interest. That's not YOUR best interest OR the employee's best interest but the Company doesn't care about your best interest. It cares about making a return to stockholders. If it has to walk a thin grey line, it will. And if it gets caught, it reacts appropriately. A number of years ago, I spoke to a businessman about unions, union grievances and management. He told me that a lot of times a Company will push the envelop to see if the union is paying attention. Sometimes the Company gets away with its behavior, sometimes not. I have no idea what percentage of the time it gets caught. For most managers, catching the union snoozing is good for a laugh. -Rocky

Thanks for a good laugh.
"The Company has acted in its best interest."

This isnt a case of the COMPANY acting in its best interests, its a case of an OPERATOR acting in his best interests. Using a "Ghost" employee to cheat on numbers in order make false impressions of success is demonstration of dishonesty.

If you read my posts, then calculated the potential monetary liabilities on the company, you would have a different opinion.

However, I think we already established that you dont take the time to take comprehension into consideration and merely post sentences to fill your time.

At a regional level, a case like this is not an ACCEPTED practice. Its an easy sell to trade off an operator for a reasonable settlement and make the case go away.

The company will always lay the axe down on the neck of the manager/operator responsible for costing the company 10's of thousands of dollars in pay to employees because of a dishonest act.

Its called fairness. If an employee manipulates the diad board, mileage or steals time, the company is quick to discharge the employee for dishonesty.

The same applies at UPS. The outcomes of dishonesty set a precedent for future cases.

If you are willing to go on the record on behalf of the company and state that they dont care about the employees and are willing to do things "out of contract" to protect shareholders, then please, state your case.

If not, I will repeat to you what I said before, "say something of substance"

UPS wife posted this thread for advice, not your limited insight as a part time preloader of 3 months.

Posting rhetoric from some dude who gave you Union advice or comments on the actions of unions and company behavior has no part in this thread.

Try and realize your insight is limited and you actually have NO experience with the Teamsters or National language or its applications.

Stick on the topic at hand. I posted all the language that would apply and the interpretations thereof, you have provided nothing to the debate.

I still dont understand why if your no longer a UPS part timer, and moved on with your life, why are you still posting on a board where current employees are asking other current UPS employees for advice?

I dont recall UPS wife asking for advice from someone living in grandmas basement working at starbucks on weekends?

Peace:peaceful:
 

RockyRogue

Agent of Change
I still dont understand why if your no longer a UPS part timer, and moved on with your life, why are you still posting on a board where current employees are asking other current UPS employees for advice?

I dont recall UPS wife asking for advice from someone living in grandmas basement working at starbucks on weekends?

I post because I enjoy the banter. As far as "living in grandma's basement and working at Starbucks on the weekend," nothing could be further from the truth. I graduate with a Masters in about a month. Life looks pretty good from here. -Rocky
 
Mrs. UPS, what local union is your husband a member? Maybe then BrownShark , can nail down some more specific details that would indeed help your husband.

I can see some kind of back room deal coming out of this and somebody is gonna get screwed. It just remains to be seen who. Good Luck.

In the region I work in, there are no TCDs except during peak season. We do have PTCDs that also work preload or the evening sort but that's a different classification. IMO, Brownshark is going to be the one that gives you the most usable info.
 

Braveheart

Well-Known Member
I have never seen anyone go straight to TCD. You have to be classified as a part timer somewhere. You have the right to go do 3 1/2 hours on some shift each day. Then there is maybe helping out on Sat. air.
 

j13501

Well-Known Member
Thanks for your reply BrownShark. This is exactly what I need...some inside insight. There was never any kind of agreement between my husband and a manager. He was hired on and told he was a tcd driver and would one day become fulltime, completely depending on seniority. We've known this all along. It wasn't promised to him, just explained as the way things were.
Here's our timeline: He hired on, went straight to driving school, came back and worked in the warehouse for 3 weeks while they found a route to train him on.....

Mrs. UPS
In your comments about the timeline, you state that after driving school, he worked in the warehouse for 3 weeks. Did he work part time hours for the 3 weeks? Which shift? Maybe thats where the classification for working the preload came from.

I'm aware of a situation a few years ago, where in a small center, there was need for additional cover drivers. When asked, none of the part time people either wanted to be cover drivers, or were 21 yrs of age. There was a meeting held between the company and the local union to find a solution, that resulted in cover drivers being hired off the street. My guess would be that if these people were in a layoff situation today, they also might have to be asssigned to a preload operation.

I hope that package volume increase soon and your husband can get back on the road.
 

Mrs. UPS

Member
Hi everyone, it's been a month now and I thought I would come back and update.

Things have not been good. My husband has only driven a handful of times in the past month. And not only that but they're sending him home from preload as well. He is averaging maybe 4 hours a week...at pre-load pay of course. It's been really, really stressful. We never really got any concrete answers from the Union nor Human Resources. The one positive thing that HR did say was that due to all the shuffelling around, mu husband was moved up a bit on the seniority list (driving list of course since he's not on a preload list) and if full time promotions continue on in the same way they are he may be looking at making full time driver around 4th quarter. She told him they were averaging 11-12 promotions a quarter. I don't know how true this, but it was at least good to hear. I wish I could tell you that we were more informed now and understood why UPS did what they did, but I can't. So I'm back here hoping for help :happy2:

Let me try and answer some questions that were posted after my last post.

QUOTE<<Be carefull. Brownshark is knowledable but he also appears to be making a lot of assumptions based on the few details you have so far given.

question how long has he been working this full time job? Did I read right? Has he been working the job for two years? Was he carried on his centers seniority list the entire time? How many total days has he worked this job?


Brownie is well versed but if your husband has been working the job for two years then this issue gets a lot stickier in his favor.

Brownie how does the ole 30 in 90 language apply? >>

You did read right. He has worked full time for 2 years. To be exact the 19th of this month will be exactly 2 years. Yes he was carried on the seniority list. Granted, he was towards the bottom, but on the list. Every day of the 2 years was worked as a driver except for the first 3 weeks after driving school.

QUOTE<<He spent almost 2 yrs in package, now he reports to preload and is classified in his true classification as a preloader. In January, where does he select vacation? If he was a true cover driver, he would select in package at the bottom of the seniority list. However, he is NOT a cover driver/preloader, he instead was hired for a position that did not or does not exist.

Therefore, he would have to select in preload, but wait, he worked 2yrs, how could he be at the bottom of the seniority pole in preload if he worked for 2 yrs? But then again, how could he be higher than preloaders who worked preload for those same 2 yrs??

This is the problem. Where do you place him in seniority? If he was assigned to preload and never spent a day in preload, what is his seniority date, and further, what is his rate of pay and where is he in progression? >>


Brown Shark, this vacation talk is interesting. When my husband chose his 2 weeks of vacation this January he chose from the driver list. He has never even seen a preload vacation list or any preload paperwork at all for that matter. I'm not sure what this could mean for our situation, but I thought it might help you to give me the right trail to follow.

QUOTE<<Mrs. UPS, what local union is your husband a member? Maybe then BrownShark , can nail down some more specific details that would indeed help your husband.>>

He is a member of Local 767

QUOTE<<You have the right to go do 3 1/2 hours on some shift each day. Then there is maybe helping out on Sat. air.>>

I'm a little confused. Does this mean that he is guaranteed 3 1/2 hours a day? That would be huge right now. He would hate to know I posted this, but his check was only $40 this week. They sent him home 4 days out of 5 and only let him work a few hours the one day. :dissapointed:

QUOTE<<Mrs. UPS
In your comments about the timeline, you state that after driving school, he worked in the warehouse for 3 weeks. Did he work part time hours for the 3 weeks? Which shift? Maybe thats where the classification for working the preload came from.>>


Yes he did work part time hours. The 3am-8am shift....which incidentally is also the shift they have him on now.

This question too reminds me of something I think is fishy about the whole situation....He doesn't clock in when he goes to preload. The sup tol dhim that should he log in like the other preloaders then he would automatically get paid at driver pay. So when they actually let him work he has to write his hours down on a piece of paper and give them tot he sup. That seems really odd to me......

I want to end by thanking you all so much for your advice and help. I must say that this forum has been 110% more helpful than anything or anyone else I've found. Moreso even than our local or UPS for that matter....and that's really sad. :sad-little:

Mrs. UPS
 

BrownShark

Banned
Mrs UPS,

I am puzzled at the numerous infractions that the company has violated in this case. All employees have guaranteed hours every week.

For preload, he should be guaranteed a minimum of 17.5 hours a week the moment he sets foot on company property on every monday. Unless he agrees to "circle out", those hours are guarateed.

Article 22 of the national master agreement, section 5 (d) WAGES-
"All part time employees governed by this article shall be provided a minimum daily three(3) and one half (3 1/2) hour guarantee".

If he agrees to "circle out" , he waives his guarantee for the week.

As for selecting with the package center for vacation, this would be proper if he was classified as a "cover driver". If he is not, and he selects in package but is in preload, who would cover his cars when he goes out on vacation? The package vacation list would not help the preload sup who has to cover his position thru scheduling. He should talk with his preload sup and make sure they will honor his scheduled vacation so its not a surprise come the week he anticipates off and the sup tells him he cant take it off cause higher seniority preloaders chose that same week.

Second, he should be paid 1/52nd of what he earned the year before and make sure his vacation checks ARE NOT limited to his weekly preload average.

I have question about his rate of hourly pay? What was he earning during the 2 years (hourly) and did he ever begin a series of progressive increases? Also, what is he earning now (hourly) if they are still paying him driver wages, you can argue that he is a full time employee, the company would have had to reduce his pay to preload pay once he was re-assigned.

If he is still earning driver pay, what progression scale for increase are they going to use while hes in preload, I mean, he would have to be the most expensive preloader in history if hes earning driver wages.

I have a question for you.. What about your medical coverage? If he drove for package for 2 years, his medical package should be that of a full time driver, not a part timer. Did they reduce your coverage or take it away alltogether? Did the company reduce your benefits?

Check this out if you do not know. I suspect they have either reduced your coverage or are making him requalify as a preloader thru probation.

Very important for him to establish his starting date, this date is crucial in determining vacation time, retirement and seniority.

He needs to verify that his start date was in fact when he first went to orientation and began driving and not when he was re-assigned to preload. Those 2 years will be critical down the line.

The issue here is complicated. Unfortunately, this is what happens to good people when bad people try to skirt the system.

As for your local, has the business agent tried anything in a form of grievance or hearings with the division manager to reconcile your husbands position or has he let it go by the wayside and left him in preload?

There are basicly 2 ways to go about this matter. One, leave him in preload and earn his way back to package, or argue that he should be reconsidered and reclassified as a full time package driver using the SIX FOR ONE language in the National Master agreement.

If they used him everyday for 2 years as full time driver (supplement) then he has a case that he is a full time employee, Even though the center manager hired him improperly, thats not his fault.

The contract is clear, COVER DRIVERS cannot be used to SUPPLEMENT the workforce. This is a violation of the contract. There sole purpose is to cover routes when FUll TIME drivers are on vacation, jury duty, funeral leave and thats it.

When the company tries to skirt around hiring a new full time employee by hiring a guy off the street and using him daily for 2 years, then it can be argued that the company INTENTIONALLY violated the agreement to use a cover driver as a supplemental driver to its regular workforce, thus creating a new full time position. The 30 in 90 day language would back this up.

Now, a good private conversation with the Division or District manager should rectify this situation with out complication if your agent had any salt in his veins, but it doesnt appear so.

Its a simple matter of clarification.

I hope he can hang in there if things dont go his way, however, make sure he demands his 17.5 hours a week and is not circling out on the suggestion of his sup.

If he has not agreed to circle out, and he just went home as instructed, he can grieve all the weeks he was "shortpayed". Even if its two months worth of weeks. An employee can grieve these short payed weeks even if its beyond the 10 day window using the "date of knowledge" provision in our contract.

If he is only finding out now, that he is guaranteed 17.5 hrs a week in preload, and in the last month he's worked only 1 day a week, he can grieve all the weeks, since his "date of knowledge" of this fact is today.

His weekly guarantee has to be paid to him whether he worked or not as long as he did not "circle out."

He would be entitled to be paid for any hours short of 17.5 in any week.

I hope you both have given your BA an earful and demand that he take action. If he is weak, ask to speak to the secretary treasurer and insist on action by him.

Dont give up.

Peace:peaceful:
 

Mrs. UPS

Member
I am puzzled at the numerous infractions that the company has violated in this case. All employees have guaranteed hours every week.

For preload, he should be guaranteed a minimum of 17.5 hours a week the moment he sets foot on company property on every monday. Unless he agrees to "circle out", those hours are guarateed.

We never knew this. I've never heard the term "circle out" but I do know he never agreed to go home on ANY day. Here is how it has been working since he's been back in preload (this past month). He goes into work at 3am. The preload sup either lets him work or sends him straight home. Then after about a week the sup told him to call him every morning around 2am and see if there was enough work for him to come in. So on average he has been working maybe one day a week.

I have question about his rate of hourly pay? What was he earning during the 2 years (hourly) and did he ever begin a series of progressive increases? Also, what is he earning now (hourly) if they are still paying him driver wages, you can argue that he is a full time employee, the company would have had to reduce his pay to preload pay once he was re-assigned.

The whole time he was driving he was making driver pay. He started at $23.11 and yes he did get the yearly increases. When he drives now I believe the hourly rate is $23.96. Now that he's in the warehouse he is making $10.50 an hour. But there have been 3-4 times that at the end of the shift they've told him to come drive the next day and when he drives he makes the 23.96 again for those hours. This is from one of his recent checks:
- CURRENT PAY RATE 10.50 [FONT='Arial','sans-serif'] [/FONT]
- REGULAR 10.50 13.09 137.45 [FONT='Arial','sans-serif'][/FONT]
- REGULAR 23.96 8.00 191.68 [FONT='Arial','sans-serif'] [/FONT]
- OVERTIME 35.94 1.11 39.89 [FONT='Arial','sans-serif'][/FONT]
- TOTAL HOURS WORKED 22.20 [FONT='Arial','sans-serif'][/FONT]


Notice how it says current rate of pay 10.50? That has always said that. The whole 2 years. He was always classified as pre-load according to the HR people. Even though he neevr worked it.
I have a question for you.. What about your medical coverage? If he drove for package for 2 years, his medical package should be that of a full time driver, not a part timer. Did they reduce your coverage or take it away alltogether? Did the company reduce your benefits?

I'm pretty certain he's always gotten part time benefits. Every time we get the packet in the mail from Aetna, it says part time employees on it.

As for his start date he has verified it. They say it is the day he started 2 years ago. In fact, they're stilla cting like this preload thing is just for now while volume is low. They talk to him as if he's a driver. For example, he doesnt have his own trucks or whatever in preload. When he works in there he just helps out the regular preload guys. Like he's just a helper or something. I feel like he's in limbo at UPS. Not a driver, but not in preload.

As for your local, has the business agent tried anything in a form of grievance or hearings with the division manager to reconcile your husbands position or has he let it go by the wayside and left him in preload?

He has not helped one bit. My husband went to him way back when he was still driving, but they were sending him home 2-3 days a week. At first the steward was all gung-ho, said he'd put a call in and find out why they weren't working him. When he still kept getting sent home, he went to the steward again. Again he said he'd call. Then on the third time he went to the steward, he told him that there was nothing he could do. Volume was low and he had low seniority so he had to be the one sent home. NOw this was before all thhe preload stuff and the classification mix yups and all started. My husband try to go talk to him when that happened and he wouldn't even see him. The receptionist said he was busy, so my husband told her he'd wait. He sat in that man's waiting area for 3 hours and still never got to talk to him. Several times since we've called him, left messages, tried to pop in and see him and he's never available and he never returns our calls either. We have no help from the union. Yet just this week they took out dues which left us with a whopping $40.06 net pay. I just don't see how that could be right.

Since reading your last few posts I have showed all of this to mu husband and he's all set to go in on Monday morning and demand some answers. I think he just feels in over his head, be/c they fast talk him and always by the end of the day he's doubting if what we read in the agreement is right. They're certainly very good at manipulation at UPS.

He would be entitled to be paid for any hours short of 17.5 in any week.

This would be A LOT. Here are a few of the recent ones:
- CURRENT PAY RATE 10.50 [FONT='Arial','sans-serif'] [/FONT]
- REGULAR 10.50 12.50 131.25 [FONT='Arial','sans-serif'][/FONT]
- OVERTIME 15.75 0.95 14.96 [FONT='Arial','sans-serif'] [/FONT]
- TOTAL HOURS WORKED 13.45








- CURRENT PAY RATE 10.50[FONT='Arial','sans-serif'] [/FONT]
- REGULAR 23.96 8.00 191.68 [FONT='Arial','sans-serif'][/FONT]
- OVERTIME 35.94 0.45 16.17 [FONT='Arial','sans-serif'][/FONT]
- TOTAL HOURS WORKED 8.45 [FONT='Arial','sans-serif'][/FONT]


And this one was really great. Last weeks:

- CURRENT PAY RATE 10.50 [FONT='Arial','sans-serif'] [/FONT]
- REGULAR 10.50 2.50 26.25 [FONT='Arial','sans-serif'][/FONT]
- HOLIDAY 10.50 4.00 42.00 [FONT='Arial','sans-serif'][/FONT]
- TOTAL HOURS WORKED 2.50 [FONT='Arial','sans-serif'][/FONT]


See how they only paid him $10.50 for Memorial Day? Well for all other holidays he's made $23.96, driver pay. I just don't get it at all.....

We're not giving up though. We're in it too deep now. Not to mention how much he really, really loves his job.
 

BrownShark

Banned
Mrs UPS,

Ok, even more complications and violations...

For example, as a cover driver, when a holiday falls on a week where he has DRIVEN, the holiday is to be paid at Driver rate not preload rate.

As I pointed out in the begining, the company secretly assigned him to preload without his knowledge and worked him in package. He never reported to preload, but this coding was only to hide him from the full time ranks. If he appeared on the full time ranks, his time counts against the center numbers. Using him the way they did provided a means to "ghost" him off the books, increasing productivity but hiding the reality of the action to the division manager and district manager.

Without having to talk you to death, I would contact your local Department of labor and the NLRB National Labor Relations Board and ask for an interview for a improper hiring practice and DFR or Duty to Fairly Represent a union member.

Explain to both the situation and the rights I have explained to you, tell them you believe the Union and the company have conspired to violate both the contract and state law (state law may be different where you live).

Tell them your husband is owned back wages for hours denied, rates of pay for time worked and a misclassification of position.

Tell them your agent has failed to provide adequate asssitance in your matter.

They will put a fire under the locals :censored2: to resolve this.

Dont worry about feelings, they dont care about yours.

Good luck,

Peace:peaceful:
 

trickpony1

Well-Known Member
Brownshark-

Would you kindly answer my PM?
You seem very knowledgeable on several topics hence I asked you a few questions.
Thanks.
 
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