Terminated For Gross Negligence

705red

Browncafe Steward
Thanks for the support.. I think the vote at the national hearing was decided before we even got there.. My union rep. didn't say much, even saw him laughing it up with the u.p.s boss!!!
What local in chicago are you in? Can you explain to me the steps that have been concluded? Did you just have your panel hearing? After an arbitration it typically takes some time to get the arbitrators ruling. I cannot see the union taking managements side from what you have stated. I had a driver that was involved in a similiar situation were he was involved in a fatality which he was not at fault for. He was deadlocked at panel and before the arbitration the company gave him his job back. Im sure the bosses want you back, but the company is taking a stand because in their eyes you are un-insurable. They are worried what happens if you get into another accident after being involved in a fatality.
 

trickpony1

Well-Known Member
705red-

Have you ever heard of/been involved in a "8.3 appeal" ?
It may also be known as a "8-3 appeal".
If you have I would be interested in knowing the details.
Thanks.
 

paidslave

Well-Known Member
What local in chicago are you in? Can you explain to me the steps that have been concluded? Did you just have your panel hearing? After an arbitration it typically takes some time to get the arbitrators ruling. I cannot see the union taking managements side from what you have stated. I had a driver that was involved in a similiar situation were he was involved in a fatality which he was not at fault for. He was deadlocked at panel and before the arbitration the company gave him his job back. Im sure the bosses want you back, but the company is taking a stand because in their eyes you are un-insurable. They are worried what happens if you get into another accident after being involved in a fatality.

UPS is being cautious with this and it will take time. I thought UPS is self insured so that wouldn't make sense? He should be looking for another job and apply for unemployment for some income to survive through this ordeal!
 

tieguy

Banned
what were the reasons they charged you with gross negligence.

What were the reasons the arbitrator gave for agreeing you should lose your job.
 

paidslave

Well-Known Member
what were the reasons they charged you with gross negligence.

What were the reasons the arbitrator gave for agreeing you should lose your job.


Management didn't give him any!


You know TIE ALL accidents are avoidable! That being said, UPS is gonna pay hefty because its UPS's fault!

What do you think about that?
 
what were the reasons they charged you with gross negligence.

What were the reasons the arbitrator gave for agreeing you should lose your job.

OK, I am confused now. in one post .... he said...
Local Hearing Was Deadlocked. Lost At National Hearing In Chicago..
Was the hearing in Chicago an arbitration or just another panel hearing? That would make a difference...right? I took it as the later, which might indicate something shady going on.
 

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
First off, there are trades made between the company and the union at panels. Basically, I agree to let this firing stand, but you bring back those other four with only suspensions. We will put on a show, but the deal is done. It happens all the time. Its called back room deals, and its great if you are on the good end of the deal, sucks when you are not.

It is also per the contract that in a serious accident, you can be terminated. Usually within a day or so, most terminations like this are overturned locally to a 1, 3, or 5 day suspension without pay. And it is back to normal. But for what ever reason, yours ended up differently. I would need to see a lot of documentation to understand why. And you have not posted enough details for that here.

We have had several accidents where drivers have been involved with several deaths, two with cyclists one of which the driver was not even in the truck, and one where relatives of a manger were driving without lights on a rainy night running from the police, and slammed into the side of a set of doubles that were accross the road, killing all in the car.

In each of these cases, even though the driver was originally fired, they got their jobs back, one with back pay.

One item that has not been brought out, and this is assuming what you have posted is the truth, as you have not filled in a lot of areas on this matter.

Since you stated that the guy was driving very recklessly, and you lost your job because of that wreck, you have been damaged. It would stand to reason that because of his reckless actions, you can sue his insurance to be compensated for your job loss, and any lost wages past, present and future. So if you indeed have exhausted your union options, you need to get a good lawyer. Perferably one with a good track record and part of a larger practice. And if UPS actually did charge you with gross negligence, and you had no culpability in the accident, UPS would also be a target for legal action.

Get some professional help. Soon.

d
 
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tieguy

Banned
Management didn't give him any!


You know TIE ALL accidents are avoidable! That being said, UPS is gonna pay hefty because its UPS's fault!

What do you think about that?

I think if he can't answer those two questions then you just got fooled by a troll.

If he is legitimate then he should be able to give some good detailed answers to these questions. If you read through this thread he has so far given some very vague answers and avoided giving any details. We have some Chicago people here . We should be able to get some answers.
 

laurietito

Well-Known Member
Its probobly policy when a death occurs,and you will probobly have to get another job in the meantime,but you will probobly get your job back with back pay minus what the lawyer charges you...sorry for all the proboblies.Is there a local news article that covered the accident?


Yes, it was on wthr news.... they even said the motorcyclist was speeding!!
 

laurietito

Well-Known Member
When I was a union steward I had a similar case. The terms gross neglect and neglect are both legal terms. The standard is so high for gross neglect that it is seldom met. My lawyer friend explained gross neglect this way, if your boss told you a door was broken and to fix it and you did not and someone walks through the door and dies that would not be gross neglect. If your boss after the death instructs you again to fix the door and you do not fix it and someone dies again, then that could be gross neglect, but as my lawyer friend says we would have arguing points.

Notice article 17 of the master says for an accident to meet a firing standard it has to have gross neglect And something else, like 4400 in damage. The word and indicates that both factors must be present. Without gross neglect no one can be fired for a serious accident. I asked the union big boys to argue the above point and they refused. Their comment is we determine gross neglect and not the law or a legal definition.


In the case you are talking about did the driver get his driver back??? Those union big boys sure don't say much because it is no there money lost or kids insurance!!! Thanks for the comment.
 

laurietito

Well-Known Member
The OP might check out the legal forum at truck.net. There is an attorney there (he is a regular poster, might even be the moderator) who regularly takes cases for Teamsters who have court actions against their employers. He is in the Twin Cities....

TB


What it the OP???
 

laurietito

Well-Known Member
What local in chicago are you in? Can you explain to me the steps that have been concluded? Did you just have your panel hearing? After an arbitration it typically takes some time to get the arbitrators ruling. I cannot see the union taking managements side from what you have stated. I had a driver that was involved in a similiar situation were he was involved in a fatality which he was not at fault for. He was deadlocked at panel and before the arbitration the company gave him his job back. Im sure the bosses want you back, but the company is taking a stand because in their eyes you are un-insurable. They are worried what happens if you get into another accident after being involved in a fatality.




I am from Indiana. Yes, we had the panel hearing last week... The union rep said the case could have went either way. He wasn't surprised... The only job they offered was a janitorial combo job loading trucks... 3 am- noon.... sucky hours / degrading/ pay cut/
 

laurietito

Well-Known Member
UPS is being cautious with this and it will take time. I thought UPS is self insured so that wouldn't make sense? He should be looking for another job and apply for unemployment for some income to survive through this ordeal!



Unemployment didn't go through cause I was not totally fired from the company until last week. Accident happened last June... Got another job but with no benefits/ less pay!! Surviving is rough when your used to making that big money..:happy-very:
 

laurietito

Well-Known Member
what were the reasons they charged you with gross negligence.

What were the reasons the arbitrator gave for agreeing you should lose your job.



In the contract that is all they could come up with.They did not give any reasons..... called it a discharge and said it was over..
 

tieguy

Banned
Anyone out there terminated for gross negligence even though it was not your fault?????? Any suggestions how to get back at UPS??

Too Late... Local Hearing Was Deadlocked. Lost At National Hearing In Chicago.. 13 Years Down The Drain...[/quote]

This is totally true. Termination process did take 8 months. Just ended last week. Just still in shock , wondering about options..

I am from Indiana. Yes, we had the panel hearing last week... The union rep said the case could have went either way. He wasn't surprised... The only job they offered was a janitorial combo job loading trucks... 3 am- noon.... sucky hours / degrading/ pay cut/

offered you a combo job or terminated you?

Hark! I hear the sounds of an approaching troll!
 

laurietito

Well-Known Member
Management didn't give him any!


You know TIE ALL accidents are avoidable! That being said, UPS is gonna pay hefty because its UPS's fault!

What do you think about that?



You are right there famous saying is all accidents are avoidable but you have to run 300 stops in a day.
 

tieguy

Banned
In the contract that is all they could come up with.They did not give any reasons..... called it a discharge and said it was over..

why are you reluctant to give details on the accident.

what happened in the accident and where or how were you considered grossly negligent.
 
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