Terminations in 804 begin: 20 drivers fired Monday

10 point

Well-Known Member
I'm sure you hope the "scabs" would get laid off. But I imagine, if the hole goes that far, the replacement drivers are sent back to PT. As they are permanent members of the union just like the drivers.
Depending on what doc the company may get them to sign and if they're classified as something other than ft drivers there's no way the company can make them "part time" again without getting filed on. Good luck with that.

The best thing that could happen right now is for the city of New York (et al) to put pressure on them legally and hit the company in the wallet (if possible) until they put those drivers back to work . IMO. And do it now.
 

'Lord Brown's bidding'

Well-Known Member
You may not like the "real world" quote, however it's true. You say greedy execs are to blame, what makes them greedy? Some people on the outside of UPS would say you're greedy; over $30 an hour pay plus overtime, health insurance, dental insurance, pension....sounds good to me. I have never seen people complain more about their jobs and then still work there. I loved working at UPS, enjoyed all my friends there and the sense of accomplishment, however there were always the people who stood in the parking lot for an hour after they clocked out to complain about their job....again, move on find something else.....you work for UPS, you don't own the business...it is what it is. What other things should UPS give more consideration, they are a for profit business.....if they went out of business....where else would you be able to find a job delivering boxes and still receive your current benefit package?? FedEx?? Post office?? Anyway in the real world we are usually all a collective bargaining group of one...that's all I need, then I only have myself to blame.

It is only "true" because the companies have no checks. The "real world" used to - and, truthfully, still does- include unions.

"Greed" is probably a subjective word; a better one is "fair", "balanced", achieved through "compromise". These are ideas people in the "real world" have to deal with. I am the sole breadwinner in my house, and yet I can't just tell my wife what will and won't be done with the money, or in the house. We discuss it, so that our family survives. This is how business used to operate, and in places like Germany or Sweden, still does. It should never have changed here if it was all about people really being free (from poverty, from not being able to afford health care, etc.).

I see people outside of UPS complain all the time about their jobs and still work there. Have you seen all the stats about people "working part - time wishing to go full-time", or who'd "love to change their job, but won't because of the job market" or "they don't want to lose their benefits"? Have you looked at the FedEx side of this Forum? The difference is they can't do anything about their complaints; there are no better jobs and they cannot demand compromise and balance from their employer, something I as a union employee can.

I am going to guess you have useful skills outside of those needed to work at UPS. Good for you, and I wish you well in using those skills to get ahead. However, at one time in society even those without "skills" were still provided well for in the job market. You didn't have to spend $70k (on the low end) to get a $40k/year job. The gap between a "burger flipper" and a professional wasn't this large. And yet society (and business) functioned fine. Now, business functions well, but society - with parents working at least 4 jobs between them to survive, and kids receiving insufficient parental guidance as a result, leading to horrible schools, excessive poverty, etc - isn't doing so well. This isn't the real world, it's a nightmare.

To those who would suggest I am greedy, I'd ask them, "Why am I greedy? Because I demand - and have the means to at least get UPS to consider them without spending another $20k on a degree- to be adequately compensated in relation to the massive profits this company makes, that I help make possible? " How is that greedy? Because everyone else accepts less? In 1980 UPS compensated their employees to a certain degree relative to their success at that time. I should now accept a relatively inferior compensation package because everyone else does? That's akin to telling someone to not get a degree (so as to provide better materially for themselves) because everyone else in their poor neighborhood gets by without doing so. That's backwards, and definitely isn't living in the "real world".
 

worldwide

Well-Known Member
The best thing that could happen right now is for the city of New York (et al) to put pressure on them legally and hit the company in the wallet (if possible) until they put those drivers back to work . IMO. And do it now.

I'd imagine there are contracts in place between UPS and any state agencies and the contracts can not simply be ended on the spot for any reason. Besides, if those contracts were to end, would that not mean more Teamsters would be put out of work? Cut off your nose to spite your face?

I'm curious as to why the national Teamster leadership is quiet on this issue IF this was a legitimate, approved, sanctioned job action?
 

'Lord Brown's bidding'

Well-Known Member
As for the whole "You don't own the business and thus shouldn't be compensated as such":

1.Neither does Scott Davis, or any of those upper level managers. Why does their compensation packages, relative to their positions, have to exceed mine? Without a union, they would. In fact, we've been told here Mr Davis' is actually compensated less than his peers; HE has the inferior package, and yet the man is not suffering. Nor are the other upper level managers, and yet I have seen that FedEx managers often make more than UPS managers. Who is the more successful company?

2.In the past - when things were still good- there was a better balance maintained between compensation for employees and the success of companies. Why has this changed? Would the economy crash if companies compensated their employees more fairly, I.e. not have the salary of their CEO be % 1000 more than the lower employees? You won't find crap like that anywhere in the world but here.
 

'Lord Brown's bidding'

Well-Known Member
how were the 20 drivers fired selected? why ar they being treated with disparity?

The Other Side once mentioned that this shouldn't be possible, to be able to terminate some and not altogether. However, in truth, all 250 are terminated, for a cardinal offense; isn't it up to the company who they work and who they don't? Of course, the union will protest under precedence that they can't work some and not others, but that is up for the arbitrator to decide, right?
 

Dracula

Package Car is cake compared to this...
A union president is there for leadership. Right or wrong, good or bad, he needs to stand up for the rank and file.

Why is Jr. Hoffa MIA in this case?

A tell, I think they call it...a tell.
 

Dracula

Package Car is cake compared to this...
If Hoffa's past is any indication, my guess is we will never hear a word from him, or hall, about this matter.
 

lovcgars

Ex-Ups
It is only "true" because the companies have no checks. The "real world" used to - and, truthfully, still does- include unions.

"Greed" is probably a subjective word; a better one is "fair", "balanced", achieved through "compromise". These are ideas people in the "real world" have to deal with. I am the sole breadwinner in my house, and yet I can't just tell my wife what will and won't be done with the money, or in the house. We discuss it, so that our family survives. This is how business used to operate, and in places like Germany or Sweden, still does. It should never have changed here if it was all about people really being free (from poverty, from not being able to afford health care, etc.).

I see people outside of UPS complain all the time about their jobs and still work there. Have you seen all the stats about people "working part - time wishing to go full-time", or who'd "love to change their job, but won't because of the job market" or "they don't want to lose their benefits"? Have you looked at the FedEx side of this Forum? The difference is they can't do anything about their complaints; there are no better jobs and they cannot demand compromise and balance from their employer, something I as a union employee can.

I am going to guess you have useful skills outside of those needed to work at UPS. Good for you, and I wish you well in using those skills to get ahead. However, at one time in society even those without "skills" were still provided well for in the job market. You didn't have to spend $70k (on the low end) to get a $40k/year job. The gap between a "burger flipper" and a professional wasn't this large. And yet society (and business) functioned fine. Now, business functions well, but society - with parents working at least 4 jobs between them to survive, and kids receiving insufficient parental guidance as a result, leading to horrible schools, excessive poverty, etc - isn't doing so well. This isn't the real world, it's a nightmare.

To those who would suggest I am greedy, I'd ask them, "Why am I greedy? Because I demand - and have the means to at least get UPS to consider them without spending another $20k on a degree- to be adequately compensated in relation to the massive profits this company makes, that I help make possible? " How is that greedy? Because everyone else accepts less? In 1980 UPS compensated their employees to a certain degree relative to their success at that time. I should now accept a relatively inferior compensation package because everyone else does? That's akin to telling someone to not get a degree (so as to provide better materially for themselves) because everyone else in their poor neighborhood gets by without doing so. That's backwards, and definitely isn't living in the "real world".


I'm sorry if it came across like I was saying your greedy, but you do see where it is all relative. Yes people outside of UPS complain about their jobs, but think about this for a minute...how many are compensated to the degree that UPS provides.....really think about this one; we're on a forum where a fair amount of posts are dedicated to how "unfair" UPS is with their money....it is their money.

Yes I have some useful skills outside of the ones I developed at UPS, I'm the General Manager of a local business. When I mention real world, it is the only world I can relate to in my current position. If all the employees here walked around stating how much revenue we had last quarter or last year and how "unfair" they thought it was they did not make more money, that would not be acceptable...why is it acceptable at UPS. You mention your household dynamics, not sure if you have kids but if so how would you like it if they came to you and said...."considering your annual revenue" I'm not receiving the proper amount of allowance, your over working me and its not "fair", and just for fun they also mentioned "you made more last year than in any previous years". I'm sure your reaction would be similar to that of any reasonable parent...or business owner, boss or manager. Again, its all relative.

My compensation package truly is tied to the success or failure of this business. I'm not sure how your compensation package is "inferior" to previous contracts, being inside of UPS makes it difficult to relate to the struggles of others. I live in Virginia, in an area with several large military bases, large numbers of civil service employees and a fairly high number of blue collar jobs.....I would wager people here would strongly disagree your compensation is inferior.....the fact you work hard or your company makes record amounts would not come into play. Whenever I feel like my employer is being "unfair", I usually break out my resume.

I was a shop steward for my local 822, having been removed from the situation for 13 years it is all too clear neither side cares about you. At least UPS provides you the opportunity to earn a living and take care of the important things in your life, the union truly rides your coattails and is paid to do nothing. They are the job place equivalent of race baiters, if they did not stir the pot all the time....you would have no use for them.
 

finaddict

Well-Known Member
It would appear the only drivers left with a job are those who were either sick that day or on vacation. Who takes vacation in February? Someone with no seniority. Guess who is going to be top dog on seniority now! Some 22 year old with a years driving.
 

Dracula

Package Car is cake compared to this...
Why would they support imbeciles being imbeciles? That's like saying the POTUS should "back" actions made by all Americans. It's an immature and ignorant viewpoint. Both of the individuals you named have thousands of people to lead. They should not jump in front of a bus because a couple hundred idiots put the union in this position. You cut the dead weight and carry on. No one will remember or sympathize with these drivers in six months time. Good riddance. Welcome to the real world gents!!
It's called supporting your members. Real simple concept.
 
What happens if this takes months to be final?

Let's say that UPS has hired over 100 replacement drivers and most have made book.

Then an arbiter or a judge rules that UPS violated the contract and orders UPS to re-instate the fired drivers.

How will UPS deal with about 100 more drivers than they need? Layoffs?
They probay ready needed 50 and with retiree's they'll need about 50 more. Problem solved.
 

atatbl

Well-Known Member
It's called supporting your members. Real simple concept.

Jesus lol. * I wish scientists would put you in a rocket and shoot you to Jupiter. The world would benefit greatly. So, in your worldview, any idiot doing something unsupported by the organization of which they are part of should be supported by said group, based solely on the fact that they are in the group? How do you "think" like this and not die from driving into a river or something else equally as foolish?

Why hasn't the Pope stood up to these so-called "victims" of pedophilia and let them know that priests don't commit crimes and that the priests will be supported publicly by the Vatican? Why does the Vatican try and brush this under the rug? Just own it publicly, amirite? Stand by your members!!!11111 haha
* lmao.

* Post edited. No name calling please. For more info: http://www.browncafe.com/community/help/terms#tldr
 
Last edited by a moderator:

realbrown1

Annoy a liberal today. Hit them with facts.
Jesus lol. You're so stupid. I wish scientists would put you in a rocket and shoot you to Jupiter. The world would benefit greatly. So, in your worldview, any idiot doing something unsupported by the organization of which they are part of should be supported by said group, based solely on the fact that they are in the group? How do you "think" like this and not die from driving into a river or something else equally as foolish?

Why hasn't the Pope stood up to these so-called "victims" of pedophilia and let them know that priests don't commit crimes and that the priests will be supported publicly by the Vatican? Why does the Vatican try and brush this under the rug? Just own it publicly, amirite? Stand by your members!!!11111 haha

What a neanderthal lmao.
Can any of the mods put a "TROLL" lable on this guy?
 
Top