Another upper echelon poster! Where's that like button???There's been countless accounts of betrayal of labor on both sides of the aisle in the US. Democrats helped (in part) pass the Taft-Hartley Act in 1947 and although Truman vetoed it, he was the first president to invoke its powers by threatening to draft striking railroad workers into the US Army. The Landrum-Griffin-Kennedy Bill (which barred convicted felons and "Communists" from being labor union officials) was the impetus behind the creation of the DRIVE fund. Robert Kennedy -- always hailed as a progressive champion -- spent the vast resources of the Department of Justice as Attorney General on his "Get Hoffa" campaign, eventually managing to strike a deal with a crooked business agent in Louisiana to testify against Hoffa in exchange for immunity on murder charges.
Hoffa refused to endorse either Nixon or Kennedy in the 1960 presidential election as he viewed both candidates as terrible for labor. He eventually got behind LBJ and wrote that the Teamsters had a moral imperative to support the Great Society programs pushed by the LBJ Administration (Medicare/Medicaid, Head Start, the Civil Rights Act). Fitzsimmons gave Nixon the IBT's endorsement in 1972 (partially) in exchange for Hoffa's early release and it's all been downhill from there.
Thanks Andy M, you pulled it off!
- Thread starter 104Feeder
- Start date
Another upper echelon poster! Where's that like button???
Everyone_has_a_Price
Active Member
104 Feeder is in the upper echelon of posters with knowledge and credibility. You, on the other hand, are still looking up "echelon".
Lol. Sorry I Dont have time to post hourly, I have thing to do.
Lol. Sorry I Dont have time to post hourly, I have thing to do.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
Well, do your thing!
Everyone_has_a_Price
Active Member
"Well, do your thing!"
Ahhh. That's better
Ahhh. That's better
Anonymous 10
Guest
Time to vote yes
bluehdmc
Well-Known Member
Not really, there are some other things in the supplement that we are really voting on. The health care is supposed to be a done deal, not really part of the supplement. On Thursday there were people from the international telling us what a wonderful deal it was and we should vote yes. I've never had a union do that before, they might say something like, "last best offer", or this was the company's final offer. We haven't received the ballots and they're going on about getting the retro pay and so on. Just smells fishy to me, instead of saying vote the way you feel.
104Feeder
Phoenix Feeder
Our Local has always recommended a 'yes' vote when the E-board feels they've negotiated a good Contract. There have been several meetings already with good feedback from the members that attended. Why would the Local not try to 'sell' the deal they worked so hard on? Only time we heard "last, best offer" was when the Company said that in 1997.
twoweeled
Well-Known Member
I had the opportunity to listen to Andy M, at ELA College. Andy to me, seemed to be VERY credible, which is a nice change. The only part I disagree with, is "held down current retiree healthcare increases". Current retirees are paying $50 a month for the family. That is not going to remain, as we all know. I still believe the retirees and future retirees are getting shorted, but what can I say?
I'm going to be a YES on this. For those of you who are going NO, I understand your point. Just be careful, that your not taking on a fight you can't win. The company doesn't want a strike, nor does the Union. They are working together to avert this (not with our best interest in mind). The union is making sure, that we cannot strike before peak. So where will our strength and ammunition come from to pressure UPS to sweeten the deal IN JANUARY? In my opinion, this is a fight without good generals and leadership to organize and get it done. Be careful about that NO vote.
twoweeled
Well-Known Member
Re: Thanks Andy M, you pulled it off!
I'd be really surprised if we make $20 more and hour. Considering our part timers start at near legal minimum wage, I know they are not in that $20 difference you speak of. As for drivers, I'd be surprised if it were much different than $8 an hour. As for our healthcare, if won't be what it is, if we start to lose benefits over time. Before you know it, you'll be in the same boat as everyone else.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
The gap is clearly not $20/hr----it is closer to $8-10 for Express and $14-16 for Ground.
Stonefish
Well-Known Member
where did you get your information from
doolittle95
Active Member
Re: Thanks Andy M, you pulled it off!
I'm going to be a YES on this. For those of you who are going NO, I understand your point. Just be careful, that your not taking on a fight you can't win. The company doesn't want a strike, nor does the Union. They are working together to avert this (not with our best interest in mind). The union is making sure, that we cannot strike before peak. So where will our strength and ammunition come from to pressure UPS to sweeten the deal IN JANUARY? In my opinion, this is a fight without good generals and leadership to organize and get it done. Be careful about that NO vote
Yep, this is really starting to piss me off again...we've been put in a terrible position by our leadership.
I'm very disappointed. Wrapping up early negotioations...to this? this is 2 contracts in a row we should have taken up to last best offer. Hoffa and the locals (104 at least) have been patting themselves on the back? Sickening. Maybe we gotta get rid of Andy after all...I don't know...I gotta calm down, make a rational choice. I'll read the fine print in this ta and decide what's up.
I have enough saved I could strike....I don't believe UPS would EVER risk it though. will have to listen to this next conference call today where I'm sure they'll suggest the four horsemen will rise out the desert and start Armageddon if we vote NO...you know...sky falling, cats and dogs sleeping together kind of stuff..
Where the hell are my ballots anyways? Anybody else in 104 get theirs yet?
I'm going to be a YES on this. For those of you who are going NO, I understand your point. Just be careful, that your not taking on a fight you can't win. The company doesn't want a strike, nor does the Union. They are working together to avert this (not with our best interest in mind). The union is making sure, that we cannot strike before peak. So where will our strength and ammunition come from to pressure UPS to sweeten the deal IN JANUARY? In my opinion, this is a fight without good generals and leadership to organize and get it done. Be careful about that NO vote
Yep, this is really starting to piss me off again...we've been put in a terrible position by our leadership.
I'm very disappointed. Wrapping up early negotioations...to this? this is 2 contracts in a row we should have taken up to last best offer. Hoffa and the locals (104 at least) have been patting themselves on the back? Sickening. Maybe we gotta get rid of Andy after all...I don't know...I gotta calm down, make a rational choice. I'll read the fine print in this ta and decide what's up.
I have enough saved I could strike....I don't believe UPS would EVER risk it though. will have to listen to this next conference call today where I'm sure they'll suggest the four horsemen will rise out the desert and start Armageddon if we vote NO...you know...sky falling, cats and dogs sleeping together kind of stuff..
Where the hell are my ballots anyways? Anybody else in 104 get theirs yet?
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Thanks Andy M, you pulled it off!
The Union would blink long before the Company would. Just sayin'
The Union would blink long before the Company would. Just sayin'
doolittle95
Active Member
Re: Thanks Andy M, you pulled it off!
Yes, that speaks to my point about the terrible position we're in.
Yes, that speaks to my point about the terrible position we're in.
Anonymous 10
Guest
actually nancy it's an average of 20 an hour. More than that for the ground and a little less for the feeder and express.
LagunaBrown
Well-Known Member
Anonymous 10
Guest
Re: Thanks Andy M, you pulled it off!
You'd blink because you have something hanging off your eye. Wipe that stuff off.
Vote no! Chiro 1k? Now we have up to 2K.Prescriptions? $5 for generics,right now it is zero.Brands filled at pharmacy.$5 if no generic equivalent or medically necessary. Good luck with that one. Retiress,500K cap on healthcare. Serious illness can max this out real quick,after that Obummercare. Longer time for new hires to reach top pay and benefits.VOTE NO! We are Teamsters and work for a very well run company. They run circles around the union leadership during contract time. Stand our ground.Thank you.
We hear ya brother, and I think we can all agree this is not the best, but "we" are not in a position to fight and win. If the teamsters were on "our" side, then we may have a chance, but at this point, we have to look at whats being offered (TA), then ask ourselves what more can we gain by voting NO?
"OUR" first NO VOTE brought us to this point and we have seen improvements in health care over the original P.O.S. offer, for this, "WE" can claim victory, but to extend it further with a NO VOTE to nowhere would just wipe out this small victory for the workers.
The southwest did NOTHING big at all, they had to match the new C6 benefit levels even if they didnt want to for now. They added a couple of improvements to it (good call) but as Andy said himself "there are no guarantees that this will stay the same over 5 years".
We get it. Its not great. Its NOT what we wanted, its not what "we" want to settle for. But, there are no more gains to be found at this stage of the game. The southwest has already planned a contingency plan for a NO VOTE. They will simply kick the can to the national negotiating committee for ratification.
Then what do you want us to do?
We are NOT fighting the company on this issue. We are fighting our own leadership.
I recommend a YES vote NOT based on the strength of the health care improvements, but on the WEAKNESS of the position that we are in.
It sucks, I know, but we have to move on to the things that "WE" can control, like who we elect to hold office in the coming years. If you want to see real change in 5 years, then replacing those who negotiated this contract is our new goal.
If you simply vote to keep the same people in office (by local) then you can expect to lose even more 5 years down the road. Its very clear that the leadership in the southwest let us down in this contract and the last contract in 2008, and if you expect different in 2018, then you dont deserve the right to complain.
It's time to focus on what "WE" can control and change. This fight is over. We lost, again.
Thanks Teamsters.
TOS
