The anti-US Chamber of Commerce

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by diesel96, Oct 10, 2010.

  1. diesel96

    diesel96 New Member

    The US Chamber of Commerce insists "Trust us....Pinky sware"

    http://thinkprogress.org/2010/10/07/obama-chamber-threat/

    OBAMA: Just this week, we learned that one of the largest groups paying for these ad regularly takes in money from foreign corporations. So groups that receive foreign money are spending huge sums to influence American elections. And they won’t tell you where the money for the ads come from.
    So this isn’t just a threat to Democrats. All Republicans should be concerned. Independents should be concerned. This is a threat to our democracy. The American people deserve to know who’s trying to influence their elections. And if we just stand by and allow the special interests to silence anybody who’s got the guts to stand up to them, our country’s going to be a very different place

    http://thinkprogress.org/2010/10/09/nyt-wp-on-chamber/

    http://thinkprogress.org/2010/10/08/chamber-democrats-health-care/

    http://thinkprogress.org/2010/10/07/bahrain-chamber/

    If history has shown us one very important lesson it would be this…when large sums of money and political power are involved trust is a fool’s game because the only thing you can trust is that they will do just about anything to get more.

    Thanks to the staff of Think Progress.
    The scope of this story strikes the very nerve core of our democratic electoral process in the USA, which is being undermined by those same clowns that wrap themselves in the American flag at every opportunity.
    The GOPigs are not only aiming to put the country back in the wrong direction, but they are acting like whores, truly, selling their favors and putting their interests before the country.
    Had it not been for Think Progress and other like minded Americans, the GOPig parade of lies would had been unnoticed.



    Another word of note: This recent Supreme Court ruling of treating Big Corperations (now foreign and domestic) as equals to individual US citizens is the biggest crock of bull excrement expediting our democracy in jeopardy.

    And one particular SCOTUS is in bed (literally) with a tea-bagging spouse activist, the honorable "fair and balanced" :rofl:Judge Clarence Thomas –
    Mrs. Thomas has been a familiar figure among conservative activists in Washington — since before she met her husband of 23 years, Justice Clarence Thomas of the Supreme Court. But this year she has emerged in her most politically prominent role yet: Mrs. Thomas is the founder and head of a new nonprofit group, Liberty Central, dedicated to opposing what she characterizes as the leftist “tyranny” of President Obama and Democrats in Congress and to “protecting the core founding principles” of the nation.
    It is the most partisan role ever for a spouse of a justice on the nation’s highest court, and Mrs. Thomas is just getting started.

    Read the whole story: New York Times

    "Nonprofit groups with political agendas like Liberty Central are operating in this election cycle under evolving legal and regulatory standards, most notably the ruling last January by the Supreme Court in the Citizens United case, which eased restrictions on independent campaign spending by corporations and unions. In that case, Justice Thomas, long an advocate of dismantling campaign finance restrictions, was in the 5-to-4 majority. Wealthy individuals and some corporations, emboldened by the ruling, are giving to such groups to influence the election but still hide their tracks."

     
  2. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    An unintended consequence of the 14th amendment? Or considering that Linclon himself was a railroad lawyer before he became President and many around him and those afterwards also has similar connections, was the real intent of the 14th amendment something else we never saw coming or hidden from us for ulterior motives? Considering if you look at the African American post 14th amendment being treated as equal over the next 100 plus years, I can't consider it being a sucess in that respect but in the case of the corporation:

    [video=youtube;8SuUzmqBewg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SuUzmqBewg[/video]
     
  3. diesel96

    diesel96 New Member

    By the stroke of a pen throughout the American experience, corperations have enjoyed more legs to stand on, and the indivduals have become paraplegics.......from the time of reconstruction we have let judges strip us of rights and give them to corporations and we have folded. Now they want the right to vote. Now look at us, pretending we fight for freedom, when we really fight for the Corperation.....thx Wkmac for the link....but slavory is still alive today, the blue pill people just don't realize it !
     
  4. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    Does this mean that barry will have to identify and return all those monies from non-american sources he took in during the 2008 election ?
     
  5. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    That is true in many respects although I think it's more self imposed on ourselves rather than some nefarious plot beyond our control or prevention. However on a bit of a comical note, my wife has worked in the legal field for the last 30 plus years and one of the benefits for me is having learned to use a law library. Over the years, I've helped her late at night or weekends doing legal research but a number of years ago, I happen to be looking in American Jurisprudence eg Am Jur 1st not the current 2nd addition which is a case law/legal encyclopedia. I can't remember now what I was looking up but I stumbled across the article entitled Master and Slave which goes with what you said about slavery. But where it really gets interesting was under that heading it said the following:

    "See Employer/Employee" :happy-very:

    Under employer/employee it said that the terms master and slave and it's conditions in the 19th century became distasteful in larger civilized society so some of the conditons were changed also with the terms used to identify them and the new terms of employer/employee were used in it's place. Prior to state priviledged corporations and state capitalism, the existence of large mega, multi-national or global corporations were non-existent and people were mostly independent craftsman, small shopkeepers and tradesman, what we call self employed today and thus the backbone and heart of what was in the traditonal classical liberal laissez faire free market. '

    There was also some wage labor in the employee sense of today but most was at will labor and typically wasn't longterm but rather short term, seasonal or transitional labor. People weren't typically drawn to wage labor which was a problem for large industry as a steady, available labor pool is of the first order for a business such as this. Studying 19th century growth of the american railroad, western cattle ranching, Chicago beef markets and the State in all the mix, you realize that none of these markets could sustain in a true free market and state authorized corporate authority, protection and priviledge was the only way for this type large scale market to ever make it at all. Also moving people into larger dense population centers created great labor pools for growing large industry but this in turn fed the need for industrial farmng practices in which the Chicago beef industry and railroads were a huge player. The next step was to make workers loyal to the central labor pool system and this is where debt and inflationary monetary system kept people locked in the game. In a footnote, The Southern Plantation system of human exploitation being a given, this system also had to go and thus the Civil War was vastly more an economic war than it was a cause of human freedom. Think the current lies of the Middle East Wars and you'll understand the point.

    Going forward, the consequences of centralizing economics away from free local markets meant less and less small businesses, independent tradesman and craftsman and local self sustaining small markets becauses large scale industry was socialized and subsized by the Federal State under the auspices of economic central planning of a mercantilist (European) economic model. In otherwords, Alexander Hamilton won and Thomas Jefferson lost. Even major capitalists and industrialists used policy and political power to incorporate the Prussian Education model as 29 year public school teacher John Taylor Gatto has very well documented.

    Into the 20th century we had the emergence of the large scale factory floor (Henry Ford) but it was made to work by men like Frederick Taylor and his scientific management method. It's equally ironic that Lenin and Trotsky after the Bolsevik revolution endorsed the efforts of Aleksei Gastev who brought in American engineers to help formulate central plans using Taylor's Scientific methods for it's own industrial capacity. Funny how State intervention and foreign policy helped make the The Bear into a future beast in which to startle the masses with.

    Not that Taylor's method in and of itself is a/the doomsday device (it was just a method)or even bad in itself but his model was used by both Soviet and American central planners in state sanctioned/priviledged or state owned industries to further the unsustainable centralized, consolidated large scale business model. Once this came into play, industry efficencies would in time begin to eliminate jobs as productivity increased. This is when the state is needed most as the turned out employees may well have knowledge and expertise to do the very same thing on a much smaller, localized scale therefore it's necessary for these large scale industires to use gov't to qwell the true free market (see mid article at link for the "how" means) in order to suppress competition potential. Regulations and thus regulatory capture becomes a necessary and powerful tool towards those ends.

    Even later so-called benevolent actions by the state such as social security and other worker welfare protections were indeed actions instigated by industry leaders themselves which keep the larger labor base at bay and in alliegience but also drive up labor costs not so much for the established industries but drastically effect new upstarts who must acquire extra capital on the initial startup costs in order to pay for these new regulatory requirements. Don't dare even look back at true free market unionism and see how that was subverted towards today's Statist Union model that in fact again benefits industry. Ironically ask a Taylorist who coined the term "fair day's work for a fair day's pay" and what he meant when he said it?

    To those ends a study of Alfred Sloan and Gerard Swope is most important to understand how so-called American free market capitalism is in fact the biggest driver of American style socialism to which much of the rightwing much less the left wing turns a blind eye too. As much as republicans want to scream about Obamacare as socialism, they ignore the presense of large corp. interests at the table crafting the very legislation to begin with. And if one would look a bit further into the so-called "Chamber of Commerce" one would also find quite the level of state intervention, rightly called socialism, yet we never hear a word of complaint from the very people here who squall neverending about the socialism of others.

    Ralph Raico, professor of history and direct student of the late Ludwig von Mises in 1991' wrote an article for Liberty Magazine that was republished at the Mises website entitled, Liberation from the Parasite State and when all people of ethical, moral and goodwill begin to realize and question the illusions before them, the parasite state will begin to show it's teeth even more and thus easier to see by more people. I also believe that whether he knows it or not, one person doing the most for this country right now on a purely economic note is one Dave Ramsey who tells his radio listeners to get out of debt, stay out of debt and live within one's means. We all need to follow that advice because regardless of politics I do believe the gov't is on an unsustainable path of debt and at some point in the future it will collaspe taking the economic system with it.
     
  6. brett636

    brett636 Well-Known Member

    So lets legislate them out of business! That is the liberal way!

    In all seriousness I believe your letting your mental disorder known as liberalism to get the best of you. Corporations help to create the goods and services that we the people desire. Ultimately they have to answer to us, the consumer, in order to remain viable. I would hardly call that slavery.
     
  7. moreluck

    moreluck golden ticket member

    diesel....Alan Colmes is at your door !!
     
  8. Lue C Fur

    Lue C Fur Evil member

    Shutting Up Business

    Democrats unleash the IRS and Justice on donors to their political opponents.

    If at first you don't succeed, get some friends in high places to shut your opponents up. That's the latest Washington power play, as Democrats and liberals attack the Chamber of Commerce and independent spending groups in an attempt to stop businesses from participating in politics.
    Since the Supreme Court's January decision in Citizens United v. FEC, Democrats in Congress have been trying to pass legislation to repeal the First Amendment for business, though not for unions. Having failed on that score, they're now turning to legal and political threats. Funny how all of this outrage never surfaced when the likes of Peter Lewis of Progressive insurance and George Soros helped to make Democrats financially dominant in 2006 and 2008.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...5536370151720874.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop
     
  9. island1fox

    island1fox Well-Known Member

    :happy-very:Lets see --all thoses big bad corporations that Bush ----I meant to say Obama has surrounded himself with ----G.E. --Goldman Sachs ---Citygroup ----UPS --etc, etc, etc, ???????
    Lets hope they all go under so that more of us can get food stamps and unemployment insurance. To quote the great Nancy Pelosi "The biggest bang for the buck --Foodstamps to create jobs"
    May God help us all --the politicians will not ----opps I forgot Bill Maher told me God is Just a fairy tale ----opps sorry did not mean to offend the Gays .:peaceful:
     
  10. brett636

    brett636 Well-Known Member

  11. brett636

    brett636 Well-Known Member

    Just to highlight some of the points in the article above..

    And of course the final point to put this silly accusation to rest

    /thread
     
  12. moreluck

    moreluck golden ticket member

    White House officials acknowledged Friday that they had no specific evidence to indicate that the chamber had used money from foreign entities to finance political attack ads.

    So they just spout off whatever they want to. Geez, even the Enquirer does fact checking.
     
  13. diesel96

    diesel96 New Member

    Unlike the Chamber, the Koch brothers, and Ed Gillespie, the Center for American Progress strongly supports the DISCLOSE Act and broad campaign finance reform

    Letting a charge to be explained away by the criminals who committed it, without doing any investigation yourself first, is about as irresponsible as one can get. It leads one to believe that they have been embedded too long, are lazy, or don’t care

    As soon as I read the Times article yesterday and heard about the Washington Post, I knew that these idiots would try and claim that these articles were proof that the Chamber’s hands were clean. They’re not! Until we get proof of who is funding these ads, we are free to charge that foriegn entities are influencing American elections via the US Chamber of Commerce....
     
  14. island1fox

    island1fox Well-Known Member


    Diesel,
    Obama's Political contributors ??????? Not foreign funds ??--I always thought you were alot smarter !!
    Foreign money Played a big part in electing our President. Wake up !! :wink2:Do not throw stones if you live in a glass house !!!
     
  15. Lue C Fur

    Lue C Fur Evil member

    I want to make sure i understand you correctly...you had no problem when you Messiah was being financed by the Socialist George Soros? Oh wait...the Lilberal media did not tell you about that. And now the White House (Axlerod hopper) has no proof but wants the Chamber to prove that they dont. Sounds like the Messiah is grasping at straws...he should stick to bitching about Fox news and the Tea Party.
     
  16. brett636

    brett636 Well-Known Member

    Lol, I love the response. So what your alleging is that even though there is no proof of your accusation it doesn't mean it shouldn't be investigated anyway. How very Marxist of you!
     
  17. brett636

    brett636 Well-Known Member

    Factcheck.org can't even agree with your baseless accusation

    http://www.factcheck.org/2010/10/foreign-money-really/

    Now diesel, lets face the truth here that if the chamber of commerce were a pro-obama group airing pro-obama ads with foreign money you would be perfectly ok with it. The bottom line here is that they are airing anti-obama and anti-democrat ads using money gained through domestic sources, and while your claim has no validity the very fact that they don't agree with your ideology makes them guilty until proven innocent. This, among many things, proves exactly why the democrats do not deserve to be in power.
     
  18. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    The reasoning behind these accusation is quite clear.
    It is since the dems have been doing it , they have to assume everyone else is also.
    It's an easy way to shift guilt on to someone else.

    Start a lie, continue it repeatly, thus it must be true.
     
  19. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    Total: $12,204,154
    To Dems: $6,517,903
    To Repubs: $5,581,701
    Only American citizens (and immigrants with green cards) can contribute to federal politics, but the American divisions of foreign companies can form political action committees (PACs) and collect contributions from their American employees. Here's an indication of the foreign-connected interests behind these PACs, based on the headquarters of their parent companies. Click on a continent to see country-by-country detail.​
     
  20. moreluck

    moreluck golden ticket member

    They need to lie because they can't run on their record for the past 2 years, so they sling mud !! NOW, they are transparent !!!