The Immigration Issue

[tieguy]

To All of You,

An op-ed is not a fact. It is an opinion. Saying that an opinion is published in the LA Times, or any other paper is not a reflection on that paper, only on the author of the article. The cut and paste artists claim it was a news article in the LA Times, which is just plain false. As moreluck pointed out, statistics can be made to support whatever agenda one wishes. I think the phrase is 'figures lie, liars figure'.

The fact remains that you denied the piece has been posted in the LA times. You therefore tried to sell us the old right wing conspiracy line. At the same time you have shown yourself very adept at researching the internet for pieces that support your twisted view or for anything that might discredit a dissenting view. yet your superior reseach talents were unable to find this piece posted with a major new source. As thus your integrity comes into question.

I will repeat myself, I see a bunch of opinions based on fear and ignorance, and have yet to see any of you pose a viable solution to the problem of illegal immigration (yes, it is a problem).

Another effort to discredit these opinions of "fear and ignorance" that we posted with verifiable reference links. You were unable to dispute these verifiable reference links thus you chose to try to change the subject or distract it with the use of terms like "xenophobe" or "fear and ignorance"
Meanwhile your opinion is to let the crime continue, the illegal immigration continue and to give everyone that makes it across the border immediate citizenry. Your position while not based on fear is totally ignorant.


The misinformation presented is astounding. Let me highlight a few tidbits:
The article in question was not 'written by the LA Times' it was written as an op-ed by a right-wing pundit. You can agree with her, but to state her opinion as fact is plain wrong.

who cares. You denied its existence. You alluded to it being created. Its existence in the LA times was proven. Thus you now find yourself in the position of being proven wrong and of grasping for some small moral victory.

I'm constantly amazed by your ignorance. If there are approx. 12 million illegal immigrants in the US,

there you go again. How do you know its 12 million. who counted them. And if someone has the means to accurately count them then why were they not deported? Sneaking across the border is a crime. Knowledge of the crime without reporting it makes you an accessory. I think the number is inflated dramatically to make the case for asinging citizenship stronger.

 

[tieguy]

Speak for yourself.

I don't like to see a misrepresentation of an important issue, that's why I posted.

Why would you expect trouble in LA May 1? There were no problems during the last march, why now?

PS---here's one of the best plans I've seen on the immigration problem:
https://web.archive.org/web/20060506015207/http://www.pederson2006.com/immigration.asp
What do you think?

I think we close the borders first. Squash the wild west crime spree along the border then discusss the immigration issue. Until then there is nothing stopping terrorists from sneaking across our border.

 

[tieguy]

Moreluck, the last march was 500,000 people, and though I'm sure there were some students involved, the vast majority wee not 'high schoolers getting out of class', as least according to a news article from the LA Times. In fact in the video they provided, I couldn't identify anyone that I would call a 'high schooler'. Perhaps you were there and saw things differently?

ROFLMAO. Hey look folks it appears slothysusan has just discovered the LA times.

 

[moreluck]

Sometimes there are "rules" I just don't understand.

On a special about gangs composed of illegals.......if the police in L.A. see a person they know to be here illegally, they cannot arrest them until they are caught doing something wrong. Seems to me that the person has already done something wrong by entering the country illegally. The police say their hands are tied on this one. I really don't get it.

 

[wkmac]

ROFLMAO. Hey look folks it appears slothysusan has just discovered the LA times.

Damn! Don't you hate it when that happens.

Now that one was funny!

 

[moreluck]

A Spanish version of OUR National Anthem with the lyrics changed ?? .....Now, that's going too far !!!!!

 

[Slothrop]

tie,

Since you like to change facts to suit yourself, let's review what I actually said

Don't think you'll see a link to the LA Times. This has been posted verbatum on many far-right wing sites, never a source given. It sounds like Heather Mac Donald or Michelle Malkin, IMO.

Fear mongering at it's worst.

Low and behold, the source goes to an op-ed written by a right-wing pundit quoting Heather MacDonald. It was not a piece written by the LA Times, any more than an Ann Coulter or Michelle Malkin column can be attributed to whatever newspaper they are published in. When one sources figures as coming from the LA Times, one should be able to prove it. An op-ed or letter to the editor is not the same thing.

Meanwhile your opinion is to let the crime continue, the illegal immigration continue and to give everyone that makes it across the border immediate citizenry. Your position while not based on fear is totally ignorant. Meanwhile your opinion is to let the crime continue, the illegal immigration continue and to give everyone that makes it across the border immediate citizenry. Your position while not based on fear is totally ignorant.

My opinion, which I have stated, is to enforce the laws, but give those here a path towards citizenship. Don't break up families. Deport those who engage in a crime (other than the crime of being in America), Learn English, hold a job, stay out of trouble, and a path towards cictizenship should be made available. Never have I called for immediate citizenship or amnesty. Reagan tried that, and guess what? It didn't work!

there you go again. How do you know its 12 million. who counted them. And if someone has the means to accurately count them then why were they not deported? Sneaking across the border is a crime. Knowledge of the crime without reporting it makes you an accessory. I think the number is inflated dramatically to make the case for asinging citizenship stronger.

You stated 12 million in S. California. That is a made up number. The rest of what you said makes no sense, what is 'asinging'?

You see, I am for stronger enforcement of our borders, but that has to be funded. I am for punishing those who smuggle people across the border. I am for punishing employers that knowingly hire illegal workers, and punishing them in a way that would convince them not to do it again, ie: serious monetary fines, and perhaps mandatory jail time for repeat offenders. Give those already here a legal status enabling them to work and pay taxes, and give them a path towards citizenship in 5-6 years, providing the stay out of trouble, hold a job, and learn English. America was and continues to be built by immigrants chasing the American Dream, that is what this country was founded on. Sealing the borders is not an option, and is impossible, in any case. Do you have any real ideas? Do you agree with what Bush has privately told our lawmakers his intentions are?

 

[wkmac]

Speak for yourself.

I don't like to see a misrepresentation of an important issue, that's why I posted.

Why would you expect trouble in LA May 1? There were no problems during the last march, why now?

PS---here's one of the best plans I've seen on the immigration problem:
https://web.archive.org/web/20060506015207/http://www.pederson2006.com/immigration.asp
What do you think?

Slothrop,
What's the attitude of the folks there in Phoenix concerning Pederson's ideas verses that of Sen. Kyl? This will be an interesting race to watch and Pederson could give Kyl a run for his money. Any thoughts or comments?

mac

 

[Slothrop]

Slothrop,
What's the attitude of the folks there in Phoenix concerning Pederson's ideas verses that of Sen. Kyl? This will be an interesting race to watch and Pederson could give Kyl a run for his money. Any thoughts or comments?

mac

Kyl, through his spokesperson, has agreed to a debate on the immigration issue. This is good for Pederson. His views are much more realistic to most folks, and in line with McCain's. Pederson is trailing Kyl in all polls, though some show him closing the gap... http://www.swingstateproject.com/2006/04/azsen_finally_s.php

Kyl's numbers continue to fall, especially his disapproval numbers (which are rising), but he is an incumbant, so that makes him hard to unseat. It's still early in AZ for the hard core campaigning to get under way. Ask again in a few months. You can always check http://www.surveyusa.com/home.html for fairly accurate polling.

I wouldn't be shocked to see this battle get very ugly before its over.

 

[moreluck]

It may be early for campaigning, but my phone rings several times each evening.....during prime time TV.....and it's those d*mn recordings of the politician's asking for my vote. You answer the phone and say "hello" and there's a bit of a silent pause and then all at once you hear, "Hi, my name is so & so and I'm running for whatever...."

Irritating !

 

[OldUPSDriver]

Moreluck, you need the "Telezapper" that terminates computer generated calls. I bought mine online and it is wonderful!!

 

[Slothrop]

I think we close the borders first. Squash the wild west crime spree along the border then discusss the immigration issue. Until then there is nothing stopping terrorists from sneaking across our border.

tie, I take it you only care about the Mexican border from your post? Or do you also want to close the Canadian border and all other ports of entry as well?

 

[moreluck]

The president was asked his thoughts on the Spanish version of our National Anthem. He said that our National Anthem should be sung in English and the people doing it should learn English so they can sing it that way. (paraphrased)

Dubya !

 

[Slothrop]

The president was asked his thoughts on the Spanish version of our National Anthem. He said that our National Anthem should be sung in English and the people doing it should learn English so they can sing it that way. (paraphrased)

You know moreluck, I actually agree with you on this one. I think a better approach by the artists would have been to sing it in both Spanish and English, and use it as a learning tool. Just don't ask me to do the arrangement! A better song for this might be "America the Beautiful". Have you listened to the Neil Young Version yet? Can't help but getting a bit misty listening to it. ...crown thy good with brotherhood...

 

[rushfan]

Yo pienso que nuestro gobierno necisita enforsar las leyes en los libros, no necicitan hacer nuevos reglas concierniente imigracion.

IMHO the government needs to enforce the laws that are already on the books, not waste money and time (as they are good at) to make up some more laws.

Have you ever read "the grapes of wrath"? Who picked the fruit. Those from the dust bowl of America. There was no welfare then, if they didn't work, they didn't eat.

Now due to welfare, lazy people don't want to work in the fields. I did when I was a kid, and I'm not an illegal alien. I could use the hoe (not prostitute) with the best of them. Cut the welfare benefits to those who are able bodied, and make them do the work. Hell, I did.

Why don't we pressure Sr. Fox to clean up the corruption in the Mexican government, than those who cross our borders will want to stay there. They will want to.

My grandmother immigrated to this country. She paid alot to become a citizen of the United States. If we give these protesting thugs free citizenship, will my grandmother get a refund of all the money she spent?

Just my 2 cents.

 

[retired]

The attachment is not working but is showing up as a bunch of code. Sorry

It is a commentary about the immigration laws, in Mexico.

 

[tieguy]

tie,

My opinion, which I have stated, is to enforce the laws, but give those here a path towards citizenship. Don't break up families. Deport those who engage in a crime (other than the crime of being in America),

Slothrope I am ecstatic to now finally hear that you do believe its not xenophobic to enforce the laws. As for breaking up families its real simple if the whole family is here illegally then deport them all.

 

[over9five]

"..then deport them all."

Yeah, baby!

 

[retiredone]

back to the topic..

Illegal Immigrant...... key word is illegal.......if they broke the law to come here, you don't reward them.

Why should anyone take the US congress seriously? They are debating how to amend existing law to accomodate folks who have already broken immigration law. Let's be serious. More people will violate whatever they come up with; and 10 years from now we will be talking about new immigration "reform" to accomodate the next batch of violators. The same point can be applied to Bush violating FISA. The issue never was about the ability to monitor possible threats. The issue is that Bush chose to ignore the law (congress) by not disclosing surveilance after the fact to the special FISA court. Now congress is accomodating him by discussing changes to the law. If congress wants to be taken seriously, the starting point for any revision to law is to insist on enforcement of existing law.

 

[retiredone]

tie,
As for breaking up families its real simple if the whole family is here illegally then deport them all.

I agree that the law should be enforced, but there is a complication. Some of the immigrants have had children in the US, and since they were born in the US, the kids are now citizens. Frankly, I believe that this should be changed and that citizenship should only be awarded to children of legal citizens, but I believe that this requires a further modification of the constitition. I think the situation has spun so far out of control that it is beyond their ability to fix.