The Obama Worldwide Apology Tour

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by over9five, May 12, 2009.

  1. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    Is this how we want our President to represent America while overseas?
    Why isn't Mr Obama proud of his country and what it stands for?

    I believe he should be selling our virtues, not apologizing for them!

    Instead of groveling to the French, he should be reminding them of the American blood spilled on their continent to save them from the Nazis.

    Instead of taking responsibility for Mexican drug violence, he should demand Mexico stop their illegal immigrants from spreading violence in our country.
     
  2. sx2700

    sx2700 Banned

    Obummer.........
     
  3. toonertoo

    toonertoo Most Awesome Dog Staff Member

    Did you see how in the GM reorganization plan, GM is going to close down Detroit and start shipping cars into the USA made in China. Boy the UAW workers should be screeching. Especially since the union gave him so much money, backed him, and now hes F'ing them.
    Theres change you can believe in.
    You guys deserve it that voted him in, the rest of us dont.
     
  4. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    Well this only shows that his wife is really writing his speeches , remember how she said that she was never proud of her country.
     
  5. diesel96

    diesel96 New Member

    What my conservatives friends are bellyaching as an apology, is actually a big time slap in the face of the previous administration. Obama isn’t apologizing, he is telling everyone that there is a new sheriff in town, and things are going to be different.

    Instead of developing ideas and battling Obama on policy, Republicans are still looking for the magic words that will strike a chord with the public and bring Obama down. Democrats tried to do this to Reagan in the 1980s, and Republicans tried to do this to Bill Clinton in the 1990s. It didn’t work in the past, and it won’t work now. Again, for those who have thick craniums, Obama hasn’t apologized for anything, but that won’t stop Republicans from continuing to say that he has. :peaceful:
     
  6. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    Magic words.....how about birth certificate, or why is every little detail of his life under court seal, or how can someone who never managed a business can claim he can fix the car industry, the economy, healthcare, the housing markets, the banking system and bring about a new world order ?
     
  7. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member


    Just replace tax cuts with Obama birth certificate and you'll get the point!

    [​IMG]

    Baba,

    As to Obama fixing all those other industries with his lack of business experience, George Bush graduated from Harvard Business School so what excuse would you offer up for him?

    Presidents are meer figureheads, window dressing, beauty contestants to grant the masses something to do while the real day to day stuff is done in the background by beauicratic underlings who used political muscle of varying interests to gain their position. The comparisons of a puppet on a string may sadly not be that far off the mark. But regardless, the vastness of the federal machine is so big, there isn't a single man alive or has lived for that fact that could singlehandedly control all aspects of what goes on in gov't. I don't think inside George Bush or Barrick Obama are evil, terrible men but when something is so massive and beyond your or anyone's control, the situation itself demands that others make the choices and you just become the spokesman.

    You don't honestly think Scott Davis makes every decision, every day on every issue do you? He'll have to answer for those decisions obviously as that's life but like Bush and Obama, he'll make choices based on what he's fed and by whom. Look at the whom and the motive and that's where the real change will start taking place!

    We've rejected localism and individualism of a community nature and bowed down to the false god of "rule by experts" and the false premise that big is always better. When the "experts" continue to have competing interests in representing powerful self interests, it's no wonder nothing works, it only gets worse and the average American is the one caught in the squeeze play.

    jmo

    BTW Over: Good News, the first step towards recovery is always denial!
    And that goes many different ways too!
    :wink2:
     
  8. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Kind of like a new prison guard apologizing to the mass murderer for the brutality he experienced from the last guard.

    he'll think he is winning friends with his new approach until he one day finds a shank sticking in his back at which point it will be too late.

    Our president deals with many countries that represent real torture and real brutality not the made up crap we complain about doing to our captured terrorists. These countries are not ones looking for love and a hug but countries that will screw you over at the first sign of weakness.

    Even the so called civilized countries like france and Russia were openly violating the various UN accords with the food for oil scam.

    What is Obamas goal here? Is it to apologize to these countries for being less brutal and less dishonest then they have been?

    Aren't we really the B student apologizing to the D student because we did not get an A?
     
  9. Sammie

    Sammie Well-Known Member

    Obama's goal here is to apparently apologize to the world for all of G.W.'s
    shortcomings;
    1.) doing the best he could to protect us after an act of war was committed in this country on 9/11. 2.) asking for the world's support via the U.N., only to have most of our supposed European allies give us a big raspberry. 3.) So no, we owe Europe not a shred of an apology. They owe us one for being on the wrong side of the fence when it comes to terrorism. 44 must be a very unlucky number. How often do I cringe to hear of another big mistake or loss to this country...
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2009
  10. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member


    Just like to jump in here once in a while and stir the pot, Wkmac!!!!
    (get the Libs riled up a lil ...!!!)
     
  11. diesel96

    diesel96 New Member


    Sammie, the world's support did not fault The US who rightfully so, went after the perps (Saudis) of 9/11 in the Afgh/Paki Mtns. What made the world support jump fence was suspending the pursuit of Ben Laden by invading Iraq under proven false WMD pretenses. Also, GW making false Iraq ties to 9/11, sowing the seeds of more terror cells around the world, and unintended civilian casualties. Compounded with the Right Wing Adm's intentions of not leaving Iraq anytime soon until.
     
  12. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    "law of the land " now that's rather interesting. can't keep myself from laughing.
     
  13. diesel96

    diesel96 New Member

    Amazingly you and Tie downplay torture as "barking dogs" and "made up crap". There's not much more I can say except foot in mouth disease....



    Oooh lookie over9five, remember when you said

    "Is this how we want our President to represent America"
    "Why isn't Mr Obama proud of his country"


    [​IMG][​IMG]BROOKS KRAFT / CORBIS FOR TIME[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]Second Effort
    After failing to apologize on Arab TV, Bush said sorry to Iraqis in a Rose Garden appearance
    How Rosy..he's apologizing....Why isn't "W" proud of his country?


    Wkmac......Not that's funny right there...:rofl:

    "Just replace tax cuts with Obama birth certificate and you'll get the point!"

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    Torture....in most countries involves maimed and broken bodies, including death.
    Most of the "news reports" of torture were started by the inmates themselves, and not backed up by any other sources.
    There have been many inspections at Gitmo by independent agencies ( some of them world known ) and all have praised the treatment that these prisoners are given.
     
  15. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Ah diesel that would be wonderful argument if we were simply dealing with the problem of some young agressive prosecuter trying to get a confession. But its a little deeper then that. We were trying to get them to give us information on future terrorist threats and thus save lives. You know american lives and such. Its not important to you but to the rest of us it is.

    Thus ex navy seal or not Jessies argument is completely out of context with our real objectives. Jessie should stick to wrestling and leave our security to more knowledgable minds. Don't even get me started on senile old Larry King.
     
  16. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

     
  17. diesel96

    diesel96 New Member

    I can tell when you get fustrated the "you hate America" or "American lives aren't important to you" lecture comes up. Must be some kind of a Conservatve defense mechanism.....lol

    Anyway.....They weren't just torturing on "future threats thus saving lives",
    Word has it, and will come up in fiuture investigations, that torture was applied to various detainee's even before rendering a legal opinion on the practise, to try to mfg intelligence and tie Iraq/Al Qeada to 9/11 as another made up excuse for invading them. That's hardly saving American lives Tie, and thats purely UnAmerican.....

    Disagree, Ventura's argument states he can get anybody or in this case, any detainee, to say whatever we want to hear thru the use of waterboarding....thus producing false terror alerts, thru false confessions.

     
  18. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Ah I see. So we are making the assumption the mass murderer killed because his victim brutalized him. We are too assume the mass murderer chose to kill someone tougher then him rather then someone weaker then him? Diesel this rhetoric sounds good but the fact remains countries do not respect weak apologetic leaders.
     
  19. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    I'm afraid you keep missing the point here. We're not some overzealous prosecuter trying to get a confession. We're a country trying to get hard intelligence that would save american lives. we did that and we did save lives doing so.

     
  20. Jones

    Jones fILE A GRIEVE! Staff Member


    [FONT=times new roman, times, serif]The single most pertinent question that Dick Cheney is never asked -- at least not by the admiring interviewers he has encountered so far -- is whether he, Donald Rumsfeld and George W. Bush used torture to justify the illegal invasion of Iraq. As he tours television studios, radio stations and conservative think tanks, the former vice-president hopes to persuade America that only waterboarding kept us safe for seven years.

    Yet evidence is mounting that under Cheney’s direction, "enhanced interrogation" was not used exclusively to prevent imminent acts of terror or collect actionable intelligence -- the aims that he constantly emphasizes -- but to invent evidence that would link al-Qaida with Saddam Hussein and connect the late Iraqi dictator to the 9/11 attacks.

    In one report after another, from journalists, former administration officials and Senate investigators, the same theme continues to emerge: Whenever a prisoner believed to possess any knowledge of al-Qaida’s operations or Iraqi intelligence came into American custody, CIA interrogators felt intense pressure from the Bush White House to produce evidence of an Iraq-Qaida relationship (which contradicted everything that U.S. intelligence and other experts knew about the enmity between Saddam’s Baath Party and Osama bin Laden’s jihadists). Indeed, the futile quest for proof of that connection is the common thread running through the gruesome stories of torture from the Guantánamo detainee camp to Egyptian prisons to the CIA's black sites in Thailand and elsewhere.

    Perhaps the sharpest rebuke to Cheney's assertions has come from Lawrence Wilkerson, the retired Army colonel and former senior State Department aide to Colin Powell, who says bluntly that when the administration first authorized "harsh interrogation" during the spring of 2002, "its principal priority for intelligence was not aimed at pre-empting another terrorist attack on the U.S. but discovering a smoking gun linking Iraq and al-Qaida." More


    From Lawrence Wilkerson:
    [/FONT]First, more Americans were killed by terrorists on Cheney's watch than on any other leader's watch in US history. So his constant claim that no Americans were killed in the "seven and a half years" after 9/11 of his vice presidency takes on a new texture when one considers that fact. And it is a fact.
    There was absolutely no policy priority attributed to al-Qa'ida by the Cheney-Bush administration in the months before 9/11. Counterterrorism czar Dick Clarke's position was downgraded, al-Qa'ida was put in the background so as to emphasize Iraq, and the policy priorities were lowering taxes, abrogating the ABM Treaty and building ballistic missile defenses.
    Second, the fact no attack has occurred on U.S. soil since 9/11--much touted by Cheney--is due almost entirely to the nation's having deployed over 200,000 U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and not to "the Cheney method of interrogation."
    Those troops have kept al-Qa'ida at bay, killed many of them, and certainly "fixed" them, as we say in military jargon. Plus, sadly enough, those 200,000 troops present a far more lucrative and close proximity target for al-Qa'ida than the United States homeland. Testimony to that fact is clear: almost 5,000 American troops have died, more Americans than died on 9/11. Of course, they are the type of Americans for whom Cheney hasn't much use as he declared rather dramatically when he achieved no less than five draft deferments during the Vietnam War. More


    Can you be more specific here? Exactly what intelligence did we get through torture that we wouldn't have gotten any other way, and how many lives were saved because of it?