Well, there will be less planes flying, fewer Express employees, either bigger delivery areas or no OT(or both). It will be impossible to eliminate Express completely because there's still a demand, albeit smaller demand, for overnight service, as well as international service. I don't think Ground as is will be shut down for a number of reasons. People here are clamoring for, and getting, a national healthcare system. Between the added costs of that as well as a weak economy I doubt the government will take away a low cost shipping alternative that businessmen are wanting. I doubt the businessmen care that people are being exploited to make FedEx more profitable because it makes them more profitable too. Any Don Quixote politician who tries to make a cause of the Ground' drivers' plight will probably be taken aside real quick and told to get with the program if he wants to stay in office. So brace yourself for less hrs and get your finances in order. If things changed because we don't like what they're doing then we'd all be getting UPS pay and benefits. No one really wants to hear this but it's the harsh reality.
The Plan is Still a Go
- Thread starter MrFedEx
- Start date
Well, there will be less planes flying, fewer Express employees, either bigger delivery areas or no OT(or both). It will be impossible to eliminate Express completely because there's still a demand, albeit smaller demand, for overnight service, as well as international service. I don't think Ground as is will be shut down for a number of reasons. People here are clamoring for, and getting, a national healthcare system. Between the added costs of that as well as a weak economy I doubt the government will take away a low cost shipping alternative that businessmen are wanting. I doubt the businessmen care that people are being exploited to make FedEx more profitable because it makes them more profitable too. Any Don Quixote politician who tries to make a cause of the Ground' drivers' plight will probably be taken aside real quick and told to get with the program if he wants to stay in office. So brace yourself for less hrs and get your finances in order. If things changed because we don't like what they're doing then we'd all be getting UPS pay and benefits. No one really wants to hear this but it's the harsh reality.
What's funny is you guys still ship a lot more Express than ground. Overall it's a small adjustment.
For now. They can't just flip a switch and change overnight. When the public realizes they can send a letter 150 miles away overnight by Ground for $5 you'll see huge growth in Ground. As is, the more big shippers who switch over, the more people who'll be receiving their pkgs by Ground. A percentage of those will start investigating Ground costs for their own pkgs. It'll feed on itself, especially when FedEx feels confident enough in it's capacity to handle more, and starts advertising, telling everyone how much cheaper they can get your pkg to it's destination.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
Of course, nobody in Sales has been mentioning this, right?
I wonder if Sales ever even mentions Express anymore?
Listen, I'm not lying. Your sales team is selling Express, there was actually a push the last qtr for Express. I also can have your team install a Transit App for my system to automatically tell me if a ground pkg will be there in say a day and choose that over Std Overnight etc. That has been available ever since ground was acquired.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
Only as an afterthought and if the Ground option is unavailable.
SmithBarney
Well-Known Member
Actually we had sales in for a meeting, and yes they do SELL ground more than Express.
Told us in person...
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
I had a Ground rep admit the same to me a few months ago. I posted it, and, of course, was told I was "wrong". All those sales leads will be turned into Ground shipments if at all possible. Why? Because Fred gets more when someone uses Ground.
Seems pretty simple to me, but I guess I must be misrepresenting the issue somehow.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Could it be that the shipper also benefits from using Ground over Express? Not everything has to be there the first thing in the morning.
Everyone benefits! FedEx makes money, the shipper saves money, the contractor makes money, and the driver gets to exist for everyone else's benefit...
oldrps
Well-Known Member
MrFedex -- Your better off complaining about Express operations, you don't know a lot about the small package industry. There is much, MUCH more ground volume than air, always has been and always will be. I am not talking about FedEx Ground and Express, I am talking ALL small packages, USPS, UPS, and other carriers.
It makes perfect sense that your sales people sell more Ground, there is much more Ground volume than Express volume. I still know an Account Rep at FedEx that started with RPS. He says they do have goals for Express, Ground, and now Freight volumes. (They don't sell one service, they sell all three) He said that it is hard to sell Express due to the costs and for most companies, it has to be an emergency for them to utilize that service. All companies are looking to cut costs, why spend $50 to get something next day by Express there when you can spend $10 with Ground and still get it there next day. If you don't want that to happen with FedEx, I am sure UPS will be more than happy to deliver it.
MrFedex, you say sales shouldn't let a customer know that a point can be serviced overnight by Ground. If they don't, UPS will, and then you lose ALL of their business. I hate to tell you, but FedEx is no longer an overnight company, it is a full service transportation company. You are clinging on to the glory days of Federal Express, FedEx has moved on. The growth of FedEx is in Ground and international markets. The small package market has changed dramatically in the last 15 years and FedEx has done a very good job in adapting.
Several people on this board need to remember that the customers/shippers choose the level of service, not FedEx or UPS. The key to success is to get every package/shipment you can, not just one service level.
It makes perfect sense that your sales people sell more Ground, there is much more Ground volume than Express volume. I still know an Account Rep at FedEx that started with RPS. He says they do have goals for Express, Ground, and now Freight volumes. (They don't sell one service, they sell all three) He said that it is hard to sell Express due to the costs and for most companies, it has to be an emergency for them to utilize that service. All companies are looking to cut costs, why spend $50 to get something next day by Express there when you can spend $10 with Ground and still get it there next day. If you don't want that to happen with FedEx, I am sure UPS will be more than happy to deliver it.
MrFedex, you say sales shouldn't let a customer know that a point can be serviced overnight by Ground. If they don't, UPS will, and then you lose ALL of their business. I hate to tell you, but FedEx is no longer an overnight company, it is a full service transportation company. You are clinging on to the glory days of Federal Express, FedEx has moved on. The growth of FedEx is in Ground and international markets. The small package market has changed dramatically in the last 15 years and FedEx has done a very good job in adapting.
Several people on this board need to remember that the customers/shippers choose the level of service, not FedEx or UPS. The key to success is to get every package/shipment you can, not just one service level.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
I am well aware that the ground package market dwarfs the overnight market. I have also worked for UPS and know more than you probably think I do. Express employees are pissed because they know the Express product is being undersold. I also know account reps, and have coffee with one monthly. He freely admits that they are being told to push Ground over Express.
There is one big reason for this...the much lower cost structure at Ground that allows a much higher profit percentage per package. Ground is a scam, pure and simple. If Fred S had to play by the same rules as UPS, Ground would be much more expensive, and Express would be a viable option for many customers (XS and E2).
Both FedEx and UPS are systems integrators, something I've been telling people here for several years. As you said, they both offer a wide range of transportation services. It's also true that customers ultimately choose the level of service, but when your Sales team is told to up-sell only one aspect of those services, the othet opcos suffer. Such is the case with Express.
Take away Fred's contractor scam, and Express rebounds substantially, but that won't happen. Why? Because Fred will shift as much of the Express product line to Ground as he can, in order to benefit from the money he saves with his Indentured Servitude Plan (ISP). UPS drivers will be making around $30 per hour (with excellent benefits) under the next contract. Compare that to the Ground driver making $10-$12 per hour or on a flat, low, salary with zero benefits. This is the Ground "advantage".
FedEx has moved-on, and forgotten it's loyal employees in the process. Watch what happens if and when Ground is forced to abandon it's current structure, which is a very good possibility.
What percentage of UPS employees are dedicated overnight air delivery drivers? That's the concern, that FedEx will eventually be primarily a Ground company like UPS, with a much smaller overnight Express division. It may be inevitable, but it's how they've gone about it that makes many angry. They string us along while telling us how much they care, with every indicator telling us they are just using us until they get to the position they want to be in. That may be the way things are in the work world, but when it happens to you it doesn't make you feel better knowing this kind of thing goes on elsewhere. Especially irritating when you work for a company that goes to great lengths to represent themselves as a "people" company that cares. It's all an elaborate PR spiderweb designed to draw in newhires who think they are getting into a great situation but in effect are throwing away their future but don't know it yet. Higher profits at many companies means employees get better pay and other perks. At FedEx it means much more money for corporate officers and big institution Wall Street investors. And constant effort to eke out more profit by taking from the employees. After almost two decades of takeaways we are literally at the can't-get-blood-out-of-a-turnip point, and yet they keep trying. It seems they'd have us all living in slums and taking public transportation if the money they save in payroll will make them that much wealthier. If they are Christians they should remember what Jesus said about the rich. In those times cities were surrounded by walls. At night the city gates were closed, and merchants and traders were required to keep their camels outside the walls. Next to the gates was a small door that allowed people to pass through, known as the Eye of the Needle. Jesus said it would be easier for a camel to pass through the Eye of the Needle than for a rich man to enter into heaven. Just a reminder in the Christmas season that making money is fine, but not taking advantage of others to do it.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
The number of dedicated overnight air delivery drivers within UPS would be less than 1% of the total workforce.
I don't disagree with you but really find it hard that you see that, write that and at the same time are a staunch republican. Just because someone maybe liberal doesn't mean they don't believe in responsibility, hard work and God. They just also believe that people are DIFFERENT, live and respect that. That people are not always in an ideal situation and believe in assisting. Probably believe in universal health care because we can do it and why then wouldn't we do it? Now are there slackers? Yes. But it's not totally exclusive and the other side has corporate welfare participants, even though these people are already well to do, they get rained down millions more, with a wink. So make the rich richer and the poor living off food stamps. Not only is Jesus against this, but also Robin Hood and Fonzi. If Darth Vader picked a side, which would it be? So keeping with the Stars Wars theme, there is around 1/2 the population that goes to see Star Wars, in general everyone likes the Rebel Side, Luke, Han and Chewy. But as they leave the theater they don't understand that their actions are supporting the Empire. I'm not saying overthrow, but just being much more group/country focused and a lot less ME focused would be a good start and that would trickle down to your situation at work, instead of takeaways, perks could be handed out once again. We live in a mix of socialism and capitalism (which makes sense and I'm really good with), if you are a person that looks at socialism as some type of disease, think of socialism as group power buying. That it makes sense to have certain things setup like that, because you have leverage to make things that are possible that would not be on an individual basis. That is in many cases Socialism, a good thing, not a bad thing. Mixed in with capitalism and freedom, that gives any one motivated enough to be a success, but everyone cannot be the boss, so we need protections for the workers so it doesn't go back to ancient Egypt.
I can't say for sure, but I've always felt that power likes to separate people not bring them together, because together is what creates power and a rival power is not what the establishment wants. I was all for trickle down if those that trickled understood the fine balance and we did for a while. However, the river dried up and we were thrown out with the bath water... those Yankie Doodle Dandy repubs then farmed our jobs out to commi's, messing the whole balance up and showed their true colors. So whenever they say God and Country, inside me I'd like to go Woody Hayes on them. Whenever at an event I grind my teeth standing for the national anthem, because of the white collar crooks (known as leaders) and sellouts running it. However I will forever stand because of those in the military that volunteered and gave their lives, but at one point I stood for all kinds of other reasons. Today it's such a country of dog eat doggers to the point of sadness and anger. How anyone working 40 per week for the man and being a staunch republican is a head scratcher to me. Hi man, I hate you that you bleed me, but I do ultimately support you by voting for you. Talked about a mixed up signal.
You mention wall street, I do have a strong feeling that is the source of it. In '85 that is when the market really took off (check out historical dow jones indexes) then later in the 90's it hit another level. As I said at one time I stood up and celebrated America, it seemingly goes in line with the rise of wall street and how that bleeds the little man to no end, with consistent pressure to make more, More, MORE! Now if we were rolling with whatever is thrown our way, the sensible thing is to look at WS as ones main job investing and perhaps a PT traditional job on the side, because that is what the numbers are telling us. I wonder if everyone did that what would happen?
Mr. 7
The monkey on the left.
100% of FedEx Express drivers are overnight air delivery drivers.
The problem as I see it is while you see yourself and liberals as able to accept a wide range of views you see Republicans as monolithic in their views. That we're all hardcore Christian fundamentalists, and thus hypocrites for hogging all the wealth. I also believe, and know many conservatives who do, that social programs are a good thing, and a safety net is necessary. I disagree strongly with Republicans who push the idea that Social Security is bankrupt, and should be scrapped. I'm against the redistribution of wealth that takes away from the productive and gives to the unproductive. But I'm also against the concentration of wealth. Just because someone owns a business doesn't mean they have the right to exploit those who help them obtain that wealth. At the same time money should be earned. People have a right to Social Security and Medicare because they paid into the system. But a percentage of the population(and that's not code, this exists across racial and ethnic lines) has learned to work the system to obtain money without working for it. The attitude is if the only available jobs are at Walmart and McDonalds then I should just stay home and collect welfare. No, they should take that Walmart job and if gainfully employed and still needing assistance then there should be programs that assist them. The growth of unearned entitlements is threatening to swamp the Federal budget, and yet I don't see an honest effort by Democrats to rein that spending in, as if there are no consequences to exorbitant spending. You wouldn't go out and spend huge amounts on credit, knowing you don't have the means to cover it and eventually the consequences will be severe. And yet there seems to be a disconnect by many about Federal spending, and any suggestion to eliminate spending brings howls of protests, claims of racism, etc. This extends to unions in the work world too. Any effort to limit their excesses(and yes, when you guarantee high pay and great benefits while protecting the unproductive members from dismissal it is excessive) is met with violence, outrage, protests. If jobs are to be created, if the country is to get back on track, then the excesses of both sides need to be curbed. Don't like the oligarchs like Smith exploiting the masses? Find ways to stop it at the ballot box. Vote in people with spine and character who stand up to the rich and powerful. Don't make excuses when they cave, accepting campaign contributions in lieu of doing the right thing. You wouldn't have accepted that if it had been Republicans who did that, you'd be morally outraged. But when Democrats do that I see excuses. I would vote for a Democrat like James Oberstar in a heartbeat. Democrats like Pelosi and Reid on the other hand are talking out of the sides of their mouths while lining their own pockets. And yet they are the face of the current Democrat leadership. No thanks, I'll throw my lot in with those who believe in things I believe in, are interested in saving the country from itself before it's too late. If that puts me at odds with you then show me me a way that doesn't throw money around with no concrete results other than it keeps the votes coming in.
