The real impact of a warning letter in your file

[dannyboy]

puck brought up an interesting question, what does getting a warning letter actually mean to your career at ups. end of the world? a progressive action that could cost you your job, or is it ups's answer to saving the forest?

in reality, it can be all of the above, depends on what the letter is about.

My file was close to 8 inches thick. i had several sups that were paper freaks during periods, while others never gave one out in over 6 years.

Warning letters over leaving the work area to use the bathroom, one because a customer called in a complaint because i sweat too much, and it goes on and on. one tidbit i did find interesting, because it was so easy to hit, there were a lot of accident reports etc that belonged to management in my file. so just because you have a large file, dont mean all of it is yours.

you have a right to review your file. never remove anything yourself, but object to things that should not be there, and if they dont remove them, put the request in writing and document it.

as to the warning letter being used against you, there are times where they can.

if you have a lateness issue, and they begin with warning letters, you need to heed the warning and get to work on time. they can and will build the case against you. same with failure to follow instructions. the instruction you failed to follow needs to be spelled out BTW, not just some generic charge that you failed to do your job properly. they need to be specific.

When you get a warning letter, make sure you get your response to them in a timely manner. nothing worse that to have a bogus warning letter over a serious issue, be not responded to, and become a black mark on your file.

but over all, a warning letter is just that, a warning. if you are screwing up, quit. if it truely is bogus, file. if they remove it, fine, if not, each time they bring up the warning letter, the grievance needs to also be brought up that sought to remove it.

d

 

[freeloader]

Keep in mind that as bargaining unit employees, you all have rights and protection that non-union employees do not have. Administrative/technical and management are under no type of contract and are considered "at-will" employees. This means you can quit or get fired at any time for any reason as long as it is not illegal. You can have the cleanest personnel file, no write-ups, no warning letters, etc, and still get fired with no progressive discipline if someone decides they want you gone.

 

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

puck brought up an interesting question, what does getting a warning letter actually mean to your career at ups. end of the world? a progressive action that could cost you your job, or is it ups's answer to saving the forest?

in reality, it can be all of the above, depends on what the letter is about.

My file was close to 8 inches thick. i had several sups that were paper freaks during periods, while others never gave one out in over 6 years.

Warning letters over leaving the work area to use the bathroom, one because a customer called in a complaint because i sweat too much, and it goes on and on. one tidbit i did find interesting, because it was so easy to hit, there were a lot of accident reports etc that belonged to management in my file. so just because you have a large file, dont mean all of it is yours.

you have a right to review your file. never remove anything yourself, but object to things that should not be there, and if they dont remove them, put the request in writing and document it.

as to the warning letter being used against you, there are times where they can.

if you have a lateness issue, and they begin with warning letters, you need to heed the warning and get to work on time. they can and will build the case against you. same with failure to follow instructions. the instruction you failed to follow needs to be spelled out BTW, not just some generic charge that you failed to do your job properly. they need to be specific.

When you get a warning letter, make sure you get your response to them in a timely manner. nothing worse that to have a bogus warning letter over a serious issue, be not responded to, and become a black mark on your file.

but over all, a warning letter is just that, a warning. if you are screwing up, quit. if it truely is bogus, file. if they remove it, fine, if not, each time they bring up the warning letter, the grievance needs to also be brought up that sought to remove it.

d

After nine months it does not matter.

 

[dannyboy]

yes it does when they build a case showing past issues on the same item.

d

 

[dilligaf]

WOW I have always understood that after 9 months it's as if it doesn't exist anymore. I know it's still in your file.....................

Nevermind we are talking about UPS here and mgt will use whatever cheap trick they can for whatever purpose they have in mind. It's really sad that they have to be this way...................

On another note, I have requested to look at my file and the only version I get to see is the computer generated edition. I have never seen my actual file. I wonder how many warning letters they have put in there and I have never gotten. LOL

 

[dilligaf]

There is another point in all this too, Daniel.


Many of my sups that I have had have threatened a warning letter even on the first occurence. Unless it is a 'cardinal sin' all discipline is progressive. So if you do get called in (for a 1st occurence) and are told you will receive a warning letter, wait for the warning letter to come and then make sure that it is grieved. Your BA should do it automatically but always follow through with it.

The majority of the time this is just a mgt tactic, threatening a warning letter, so there is no point in getting all worked up and worried over. Wait til it comes and follow through.

 

[Babagounj]

I could care less what is in my file.
Been here for 30+ yrs & I have outlasted a lot of mgt.

 

[tieguy]

WOW I have always understood that after 9 months it's as if it doesn't exist anymore. I know it's still in your file.....................

Nevermind we are talking about UPS here and mgt will use whatever cheap trick they can for whatever purpose they have in mind. It's really sad that they have to be this way...................

Within this context staying on this subject exactly what cheap trick were you referring to? The reason I ask this is it sounds like you are accusing the company of something unethical along this line. Now think about this. If you personally have witnessed some incident where a warning letter was issued or retained unethically then you have cause to file a grievance or maybe even an NLRB case. If however you are simply speculating on the companys integrity in this area with no basis then you are essentially being dishonest yourself. This would be similar to me making jokes about the mob and the union whenever we talk about anything related to your union. Yes there were specific incidents where the teamsters had mob involvement but it does not give me license to insinuate mob involvement in every part of the teamsters union. That is what your above statement basically does on the company side.


On another note, I have requested to look at my file and the only version I get to see is the computer generated edition. I have never seen my actual file. I wonder how many warning letters they have put in there and I have never gotten. LOL

Warning letters are submitted to the labor department who then sends them out by registered mail to you and your union local. Are you saying you were given warning letters you never recieved or are you accusing the company of fabricating warning letters and quietly sticking them in your file? Your post sounds like some 18 year old kid running off at the mouth and insinuating a lot of things. The company/union disciplinary process is real people managing a real process. sometimes it has flaws in it but this does not give you license to then fabricate things to further attempt to discredit the overal process.

 

[dannyboy]

if you are told you are going to get a warning letter, and nothing comes in the mail in a timely manner, then you did not get a warning letter. they only threatened.

If they send one out and for what ever reason you did not pick it up or it was otherwise undeliverable, then they still have proof they sent it out in a timely manner, and the burden of proof that they didnt would fall on the union employee.

after you recieve the warning letter, you have a certain time, which might vary from place to place. if you do not respond in a timely manner, then ups and the union will assume that it is something you agree with, and they will use it against you at a later date.

now, as for the magical 9 month rule, there are times when an employee has a chronic problem that he has been getting warning letters about. if the problem persists, they can and do go back further than 9 months to show a consistant pattern with that employee and the problem. this pattern, while not always something to get fired over, can cause problems when appealing your case at arbitration. the worse they can make you look, and the more issues they can show you have been having, the better the case for the company. and trust me, in front of the arbitrator, ups's labor team will make you look as bad as thney can. nothing personal, its their job. just like its the unions job to find areas where the company screwed up.

Dont give them a case.

warning letters in you file without proof that they sent a copy to you via certified mail, means nothing. unless of course you signed something which as a rule of thumb you should never do without union representation.

As for some computer crap they let you see, that is not your file. you have a contractual right to see your file, and have the right to contest things in your file that are not correct, or dont belong there. use that right.

there are some centers where a warning letter really means something, they only hand them out when really needed. in other centers with paper loving managers with nothing better to do.........all i can say is this too shall pass. but until then file on the letters.

d

 

[drewed]

The computer file is used for more of talk withs, training, follow ups.
They can use that as a way to show patterns just as a physical file, in many ways its more accurate due to sups putting in something as they observe their operation, as opposed to something major happening then getting a warning letter for it.
If i say im going to write someone up, it goes on to the comp I talk to them about it (they can have a steward if they want) they sign the printoff the steward does and I do, its not really any form of discipline it just says we talked about it, and if at a later date it occurs again it moves up.

 

[browniehound]

Warning letters are submitted to the labor department who then sends them out by registered mail to you and your union local. Are you saying you were given warning letters you never recieved or are you accusing the company of fabricating warning letters and quietly sticking them in your file? Your post sounds like some 18 year old kid running off at the mouth and insinuating a lot of things. The company/union disciplinary process is real people managing a real process. sometimes it has flaws in it but this does not give you license to then fabricate things to further attempt to discredit the overal process.

C'mom on TIE,
There is no such thing as the mafia!

Yes I'm joking but they're a shell of their former selve's. Its so watered down now and the FBI along with relaxed wiretap guidelines and the RICO statue has decimated the once very powerful syndicate.

Yes it still exists, but they don't have to power to influence the labor organizations as they did in the past. I'm sure some corruption still exists because of mafia influence, but the days of using the teamster pension fund to build luxury hotels are long gone.

I know I went on a tangent there TIE, but I wanted to show I understand your point. We can't paint management with the broad dishonest brush just as we can't paint the teamster officials with the same way.

Do you think labor racketeering is as prevalent as it was during the 50's, 60's, 70's, and 80's? It scares me to think that it could still exist at that degree today.

I belong to a union in which its former president is in jail for giving health and welfare benefits to people who did not work in the union. The health and pension is struggling enough. It didn't need to give benefits to people who never contributed.

This really ticked me off and has not allowed me to be a "union man" 100%. I feel like its everyman for himself when our own president is giving away benefits that our union members worked so hard for! Can you agree with me?

 

[dilligaf]

Warning letters are submitted to the labor department who then sends them out by registered mail to you and your union local. Are you saying you were given warning letters you never recieved or are you accusing the company of fabricating warning letters and quietly sticking them in your file? Your post sounds like some 18 year old kid running off at the mouth and insinuating a lot of things. The company/union disciplinary process is real people managing a real process. sometimes it has flaws in it but this does not give you license to then fabricate things to further attempt to discredit the overal process.

There you go calling me a liar again. And dishonest. Yes the company is unethical in some of it's practices. And yes I have busted them on it. And yes they put a friend warning letter in my file. No they did not send it to me and no I DON"T SIGN A friend Thing without my steward.




What's wrong Tie, you jealous that my sup's used one of your tricks.

 

[dannyboy]

dill

they night ave a letter in your file, but it is not, nor can it be used as one, and does not carry the weight of a warning letter. the have to be able to show that the sent out the letter, otherwise it has te same value as used toilet paper. zero.

 

[dilligaf]

Yes Danny, I know this and that is why I left it off. I was waiting for them to try and use it and who know's that might still try although it is about 2 yrs old now.

Unfortunately Tie cannot leave things alone. I don't understand why he continues to accuse me of lying and being dishonest. I am sick of it. He has left me no choice but to report the abuse.

When Griff was here Tie and Griff went at it constantly. That was fine, it was their thing and they seemed to enjoy the constant bickering. It's not my thing and I want no part of it, but I will defend myself.

 

[tieguy]

C'mom on TIE,
There is no such thing as the mafia!

Yes I'm joking but they're a shell of their former selve's. Its so watered down now and the FBI along with relaxed wiretap guidelines and the RICO statue has decimated the once very powerful syndicate.

Brownie my point is you should not go around arbitrarely incriminating everyone and everything. I used the mafia as an example. Nothing more.

 

[tieguy]

There you go calling me a liar again. And dishonest. Yes the company is unethical in some of it's practices. And yes I have busted them on it. And yes they put a friend warning letter in my file. No they did not send it to me and no I DON"T SIGN A friend Thing without my steward.




What's wrong Tie, you jealous that my sup's used one of your tricks.

my my someone get a little boiled. And here you thought you woud give me lessons on good message board behaviour. ROFLMAO .Whats dilligaf stand for? That name alone tells us a lot about you my friend.

 

[drewed]

my my someone get a little boiled. And here you thought you woud give me lessons on good message board behaviour. ROFLMAO .Whats dilligaf stand for? That name alone tells us a lot about you my friend. You probably deserved the warning letter. Better yet post a copy of this alleged warning letter that no one else saw with the names blacked out. We don't type up warning letters on the sups computer. They are generated by the labor department and mailed out per the contract. So yes I don't believe that you had a warning letter that was not formally given to you and that was not sent to the hall and your house. Your sophmoric post was challenged. prove me wrong.

In my exp a discplinary packet is done, it takes any talk with done, accidents and any other discplinary actions done whats happened, a sit down with a manager, that gets signed off by the division manager then sent off to district where they send out the letter, and i believe its 2DA to the home residence on file.

 

[tieguy]

Yes Danny, I know this and that is why I left it off. I was waiting for them to try and use it and who know's that might still try although it is about 2 yrs old now.

Unfortunately Tie cannot leave things alone. I don't understand why he continues to accuse me of lying and being dishonest. I am sick of it. He has left me no choice but to report the abuse.

When Griff was here Tie and Griff went at it constantly. That was fine, it was their thing and they seemed to enjoy the constant bickering. It's not my thing and I want no part of it, but I will defend myself.

Griff had few friends here because he was such so hateful. Your bringing up the griffster weakens your argument it does not strengthen it.

You originally wondered if you had any warning letters in your file that you did not know about. No mention of having one.

When I challenge you on it you all of a sudden change your story to stating that you did have one that was never reviewed or sent to you.
which is it?

Your comment was clearly made out of ignorance of the warning letter process.

Perhaps you saw a write up. But then if you did it would be real not electronic.

Or you recieved an official warning letter that was sent by registered mail to the union hall and your house.

Which is it?

You also stated that the company only has an electronic copy of your file not an actual file.

Every employee has a center file that can be reviewed. Electronic files are more for DOT record keeping and not easily viewable.

Too many holes in your story my friend. Forgive me for pointing them out.

 

[22 Years Of Hell]

Warning letters are submitted to the labor department who then sends them out by registered mail to you and your union local. Are you saying you were given warning letters you never recieved or are you accusing the company of fabricating warning letters and quietly sticking them in your file? Your post sounds like some 18 year old kid running off at the mouth and insinuating a lot of things. The company/union disciplinary process is real people managing a real process. sometimes it has flaws in it but this does not give you license to then fabricate things to further attempt to discredit the overal process.

TieGuy, are you management? You sound like management. If you are, get off the forum, you don't belong. Otherwise you must be too green and wet behind the ears to "GET THE BIG PICTURE." I've been with the company for 22 years in just about every Teamster position. If you seriously believe UPS is ethical and full of integrity, you are definitely managment, haven't been there long enough, or are just deaf, bumb, and blind. There are no other options. UPS is definitely full of something, and it's not ethics or integrity, FACT!!!!!!!

 

[22 years of hell]

if you are told you are going to get a warning letter, and nothing comes in the mail in a timely manner, then you did not get a warning letter. they only threatened.

If they send one out and for what ever reason you did not pick it up or it was otherwise undeliverable, then they still have proof they sent it out in a timely manner, and the burden of proof that they didnt would fall on the union employee.

after you recieve the warning letter, you have a certain time, which might vary from place to place. if you do not respond in a timely manner, then ups and the union will assume that it is something you agree with, and they will use it against you at a later date.

now, as for the magical 9 month rule, there are times when an employee has a chronic problem that he has been getting warning letters about. if the problem persists, they can and do go back further than 9 months to show a consistant pattern with that employee and the problem. this pattern, while not always something to get fired over, can cause problems when appealing your case at arbitration. the worse they can make you look, and the more issues they can show you have been having, the better the case for the company. and trust me, in front of the arbitrator, ups's labor team will make you look as bad as thney can. nothing personal, its their job. just like its the unions job to find areas where the company screwed up.

Dont give them a case.

warning letters in you file without proof that they sent a copy to you via certified mail, means nothing. unless of course you signed something which as a rule of thumb you should never do without union representation.

As for some computer crap they let you see, that is not your file. you have a contractual right to see your file, and have the right to contest things in your file that are not correct, or dont belong there. use that right.

there are some centers where a warning letter really means something, they only hand them out when really needed. in other centers with paper loving managers with nothing better to do.........all i can say is this too shall pass. but until then file on the letters.

d

There is no arbitration within the grievance proceedure. There is no language in the Nat'l. Master agreement pertaining to arbitration, nor in the supplemental (at least not in the Central). I believe this is accross the board. I actually just had a state panel hearing not too long ago of which my local's VP/BA affirmed UPS does not integrate an arbitrator in any of it's proceedings. Very, very unfortunate but true.